Schiit Asgard 3 Headphone Amp & DAC Review

[KeithPhantom]

Here’s why that’s important for reproducing transient sounds: transients can have loudness peaks of 30, 40, or even 50dB greater than the average SPL. Knowing what we do about logarithmic scales, this translates into current requirements which are FAR greater than what’s needed to simply reproduce an average SPL. If an amp can’t supply enough power to reproduce those large peaks, it will “cut off” the transients. ''

If the music you listen to have transients of 140 dB (or you boost it to that level), that would be bad for you and your hearing. Also, we need to know if the Ananda is even able to reproduce 140 dB (we don't know its maximum SPL).

 

[odyo]

If you actually listened to something with 140dB peaks you would very soon find yourself unable to listen to anything at all...

Ah i guess you guys didn't really read that Audeze link lol.

Edit: Ok quick quote for you:

We know what you’re thinking. “130dB is loud enough to destroy my hearing! Why would I want to reproduce those peaks if it’s going to leave me deaf?” It’s important to understand that although the loudness of transient peaks may be far beyond what would normally be considered healthy for hearing, these transient SPLs last only a few milliseconds and as such, are not hazardous to your hearing. More importantly, the way your brain interprets sound, the perceived loudness is actually at a much lower level, because the peaks are “rounded off” by your brain during that time. Human hearing tends to perceive transients as lower in loudness than they actually are, and the transients are “smoothed” by our perception. Keep in mind that these are not average levels, but peak levels, and our brains may only perceive a 120dB peak as 90 or 100dB (or even less, but that’s getting really complicated).

Edit: However i'm not really defending these points. I just seek information but people around here have HUGE ego's lol. Anyway i should go back to my 10 years old cellphone. It can output 1mw and 103db is already bad for my ears or i can waste money on Asgard 3 to use it on low gain lmao.

 

[KeithPhantom]

Now, can you confirm us that the Ananda is even able to reproduce those peaks (headphones usually have a max SPL rating)? Even if we assume that you really want to reproduce those peaks at 140 dB (and I already know that it will clip the amp), do you think most of the people even listen music with peaks such like that, or at volume that those peaks are present? It doesn't end here, also I don't think there are many recordings with transients of more than 20 dB over the average SPL.

This amplifier isn't trying to be the most powerful amplifier in the world, it is pretty powerful for its price and size. If you really want to use something more powerful, go and use it, nobody is stopping you; but don't say this amplifier is not able to drive this specific headphone to more than reasonable levels (including their peaks), because it is (and we can calculate this as well).

 

[Theriverlethe]

Ah i guess you guys didn't really read that Audeze link lol.

Edit: Ok quick quote for you:



Edit: However i'm not really defending these points. I just seek information but people around here have HUGE ego's lol. Anyway i should go back to my 10 years old cellphone. It can output 1mw and 103db is already bad for my ears or i can waste money on Asgard 3 to use it on low gain lmao.

I think the corollary of that is that milliseconds of clipping would also be inaudible. I agree with the general point that you should use an amp with headroom, but LCD headphones are only rated to 130dB SPL and I tend to have less faith in Hifiman.

 

[KeithPhantom]

Anyway i should go back to my 10 years old cellphone. It can output 1mw and 103db is already bad for my ears or i can waste money on Asgard 3 to use it on low gain lmao.

Well, I have the HD 6XX and the HD 800, both benefit from an amp such like this because it can provide them with enough voltage for their needs (specially providing enough voltage at 100 Hz, where the impedance spike is for both).

Yes, you can use your phone to power them, but it isn't ideal because reasonable peaks at a reasonable average level may not be fully reproduced. Moreover, most of the music is level limited relative to the average SPL (most studios mix and master at 85 dB SPL)

 

[KeithPhantom]

I think the corollary of that is that milliseconds of clipping would also be inaudible. I agree with the general point that you should use an amp with headroom, but LCD headphones are only rated to 130dB SPL and I tend to have less faith in Hifiman.

Well, for my LCD-2, Audeze recommends >=250 mW, even though they can handle 5W.

 

[Jimbob54]

This is interesting read about power from Audeze: https://www.audeze.com/blogs/technology-and-innovation/sensitivity-impedance-and-amplifier-power



Also LCD headphones manual: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nhrOGVh3y0krft1OguEBOmAzkQPq4pWp/view check out amp recommendation.

Interesting https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audeze-deckard-dac-and-amp.5571/#post-124169 quite potent, quite noisy EDIT- noisy when you deploy the potency.

 

[Theriverlethe]

Well, for my LCD-2, Audeze recommends >=250 mW, even though they can handle 5W.

I think I'm pretty close to the equivalent of 1W with my -6.6dB preamp gain. Interestingly, that's also where the Asgard 3 would be with it's 1VRMS DAC add-on.

 

[KeithPhantom]

Interesting https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audeze-deckard-dac-and-amp.5571/#post-124169 quite potent, quite noisy

Also, the Asgard can provide more power than Audeze's own amp.

 

[odyo]

Well, for my LCD-2, Audeze recommends >=250 mW, even though they can handle 5W.

Audeze recommends 1-4w in their manual which i link above. You are getting way lower at low gain on Asgard 3

 

[odyo]

Interesting https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audeze-deckard-dac-and-amp.5571/#post-124169 quite potent, quite noisy EDIT- noisy when you deploy the potency.

Wut?

 

[KeithPhantom]

Audeze recommends 1-4w in their manual which i link above. You are getting way lower at low gain on Asgard 3

Yes, but I listen to music at a 80 dB SPL average with some spikes at +10 dB (yes, not very dynamic music but that's what I enjoy). I don't need that much power to reach those SPL. Also, I'm leaving you with a screenshot of the current LCD-2 webpage where Audeze themselves state >250 mW. You don't need 1 W to use these headphones effectively.

 

[odyo]

Yes, but I listen to music at a 80 dB SPL average with some spikes at +10 dB (yes, not very dynamic music but that's what I enjoy). I don't need that much power to reach those SPL. Also, I'm leaving you with a screenshot of the current LCD-2 webpage where Audeze themselves state >250 mW. You don't need 1 W to use these headphones effectively. View attachment 72051

I guess they put that ''250mW and above'' spec to not scare away people lol. However it's not my fault. Their manuals (which comes with the product and available on their website) says 1-4w. This is a pointless argument. If you are ok with that then there is no problem. I see lots of people reporting changes in sound between low and high gain (even in this forum) did you noticed anything other than louder sound ? These are also class a until 500mw. How is the volume headroom on knob and hiss at high gain ?

Edit: I feel like this amp designed to be used on high gain but there is also low gain to keep functionality for sensitive iems if needed. Difference is huge 42 vs 651mw and 150 vs 3400mw.

 

[KeithPhantom]

I guess they put that ''250mW and above'' spec to not scare away people lol. However it's not my fault. Their manuals (which comes with the product and available on their website) says 1-4w.

I have the same manual as you in the USB it comes with and it states that (1W), weird that the website states otherwise.

I see lots of people reporting changes in sound between low and high gain (even in this forum) did you noticed anything other than louder sound ?

If I use high impedance headphones (my dynamic ones) in low gain bass seems to disappear. This is explained by the 100 Hz spike.

How is the volume headroom on knob and hiss at high gain ?

The volume knob is pretty nice for the price (bought a Magni Heresy, so in a few days I'll do a comparison. I think I have detected hiss, but that's at max volume in high gain (with my low impedance headphones and IEMs which obviously don't need that ridiculous setting), but don't put your money on me. This amp is a lot of performance for the money and it is worth the price.

 

[solderdude]

''Here’s why that’s important for reproducing transient sounds: transients can have loudness peaks of 30, 40, or even 50dB greater than the average SPL.

I have measured peaks using very dynamic music and I never got above 20dB difference between average and peaks.
Perhaps if you have some classical music which starts off softly and ends in a big crescendo ... perhaps you could reach those numbers.

Here are some real world measurements with 'level descriptions'

IMO you need to be able to reach 120dB SPL and then you have no worries about clipping even when playing uncomfortable loud.
Those that want to be sure can add 6 dB more headroom (double the required output voltage = 4x required output power)

Ananda reaches 130dB at 1W so even at 0.5W it already complies to the 'rule' above including the 6dB extra headroom.
Most likely when listening to music for enjoyment and relaxation you will not even reach 1mW.. unless you have some really inefficient headphones
Ananda can reach 119dB with 1V (phone output).

The Audeze LCD2 is a LOT less efficient. It needs 11V to reach 126dB = 1.8W instead of the 0.5W of the Ananda.

The fact that some drivers can handle 4W does not mean you will ever use that unless you have them lying on the table and use them as little speakers.

 

[solderdude]

I see lots of people reporting changes in sound between low and high gain (even in this forum) did you noticed anything other than louder sound ?

The reason this is 'reported' is because on high gain the sound is louder. Equal loudness contour (hearing) is responsible.

Try the following: set the amp to low gain and listen. Then switch to high gain and attenuate digitally the exact same amount as the gain switch does.
Voila... bass level differences are gone. It's the way our hearing works and myths are born.

 

[KeithPhantom]

The reason this is 'reported' is because on high gain the sound is louder. Equal loudness contour (hearing) is responsible.

Doesn't an impedance spike around 100 Hz of ~600 ohms in some dynamic headphones affect the presence around that area? I don't have the math, but I don't think low gain is able to supply enough voltage for that specific case, thus audible differences.

 

[Theriverlethe]

I have measured peaks using very dynamic music and I never got above 20dB difference between average and peaks.
Perhaps if you have some classical music which starts off softly and ends in a big crescendo ... perhaps you could reach those numbers.

Here are some real world measurements with 'level descriptions'

IMO you need to be able to reach 120dB SPL and then you have no worries about clipping even when playing uncomfortable loud.
Those that want to be sure can add 6 dB more headroom (double the required output voltage = 4x required output power)

Ananda reaches 130dB at 1W so even at 0.5W it already complies to the 'rule' above including the 6dB extra headroom.
Most likely when listening to music for enjoyment and relaxation you will not even reach 1mW.. unless you have some really inefficient headphones
Ananda can reach 119dB with 1V (phone output).

The AudezeLCD2 is a LOT less efficient. It needs 11V to reach 126dB = 1.8W instead of the 0.5W of the Ananda.

The fact that some drivers can handle 4W does not mean you will ever use that unless you have them lying on the table and use them as little speakers.

Are you looking at the post-2016 70ohm 101dB/1mw LCD-2? I get 317mw and 4.71V to reach 126dB.

 

[solderdude]

Doesn't an impedance spike around 100 Hz of ~600 ohms in some dynamic headphones affect the presence around that area? I don't have the math, but I don't think low gain is able to supply enough voltage for that specific case, thus audible differences.

An impedance spike only affects the sound when a high source resistance is present. Most amps are low output R.
In this case the output voltage (which determines the loudness) is the same only the drawn power in that frequency range is lower.

 

[solderdude]

Are you looking at the post-2016 70ohm 101dB/1mw LCD-2? I get 317mw and 4.71V to reach 126dB.

at this one (the real LCD2 )
The LCD-2Classic is more sensitive (101dB/1mw)