Scarlett 2i4 2nd gen | Win 10 | ASIO | Mic Input and too much GAIN

[TheM]

Hi to all of you,

this is my first post and my first thread on this great forum, please forgive me if this post will be long and thank you very much for your attention, your time and patience.
Even though I am not even close experienced in audio engineering and technical stuff like many of you are, sometimes (hopefully) maybe I will be able to help someone with knowledge I have and with my experience.

The reason I started this thread is because I am having a really hard time to understand the problem I have with too much gain in Mic signal.

My Audio interface is Scarlet 2i4 2nd gen, microphone is Rode NT1, KLOTZ XLR balanced cable, and I am recording in Reaper. Scarlett 2i4 is connected to USB 2 port.

The problem is, what ever mic gain level I set on Scarlett, even when I set to peak about -30dbfs in Reaper, I can clearly hear that signal was recorded with too much gain. So if I do not clip in analog, I am far away from any clipping, how I get vocal with too much gain? I am not eating microphone, I am about 20cm, about 8 inches far away from mic.

One interesting thing I believe I need to mention.
After who knows how many things I tried to solve this problem, even my thought about updates is not so bright, I decided to update Windows 10 and to update Scarlett drivers even I never had any problem with latency. After reboot, I started Reaper and I tried to test recording. I was amazed how good record was, vocal was smooth like it should be and without any artifacts. I turned off the computer, it was too late, and I went to sleep. Tomorrow morning, when I tried to record vocal, I got the same problem.

To cut a long story short, I uninstalled Focusrite device and drivers, after reboot I connected Scarlett to USB 2 port and Windows 10 recognized device and assigned USB driver for Scarlett, ofcourse I did not have ASIO.

I started Reaper, and I set up driver to be WaveOut, and in Windows 10 Sound preferences > Input devices I lowered the level to about 40%. When I recorded test vocal, and again, In Reaper max peak was on about -20dbfs, the vocal was almost perfect, much smoother from the vocal I recorded trough Focusrite ASIO driver.

Does anyone have idea what is going on, I think I am slowly losing my mind.

 

[TheM]

P.S. maybe it can be important and I forgot to wrote my configuration.

Threadripper 1950x
Gigabyte x399 Aorus Gaming 7 rev 1 | fabric BIOS f2
Nvidia 1070
2x8gb RAM G.Skill zRGB 3200 MHz 14
SSD 512gb Samsung m.2

Nothing is overclocked.

 

[Blumlein 88]

First welcome to ASR as you are a new member.

I know this is a stupid question. Are you sure you had phantom power on? A mic can put out a little signal and it will sound distorted without phantom power on.

Also did using the Pad make any difference?

It does sound like a strange problem you are having.

 

[TheM]

@Blumlein 88

Thank you very much for the welcome.

Phantom is On, the problem I have is too much of gain.
I tried with the Pad button, I only get volume down, but that gain is still there.
Yes, I am maybe the one and only person on this beautilful Earth who have a problem with too much gain with Scarlett devices, everyone else scream all around that they have too low gain.

 

[Blumlein 88]

@Blumlein 88

Thank you very much for the welcome.

Phantom is On, the problem I have is too much of gain.
I tried with the Pad button, I only get volume down, but that gain is still there.
Yes, I am maybe the one and only person on this beautilful Earth who have a problem with too much gain with Scarlett devices, everyone else scream all around that they have too low gain.

Something strange is going on. Even with all the gain, the Scarlett can be turned to zero gain. Unless you are screaming you shouldn't be over loading the mic. I'll give it some more thought.

 

[JohnYang1997]

There was an issue with first gen Scarlett that hot guitar pickups can over load the front end. But it's solved in gen2. I too don't quite understand how couldn't you turn the gain all the way down. And I have used NT-1 2014 from rode with a different focusrite model in the past, didn't have any issue. I was using around 20-30dB gain.


One thing came to my mind is. Can you check on the control panel from focusrite, that you didn't feed the output back to input thus giving a positive feedback situation. Maybe turn off monitoring for all channels see if that helps.

 

[TheM]

@JohnYang1997

Hi John Yang, thank you for response.
I can turn gain down on Scarlett 2i4 interface with gain knob, and I tried that, I lowered gain, like you did, to about 20% - 30%. And after I record vocal, when I turn up volume of the track I recorded in Reaper, it still sound like it was recorded with too much of gain.

Interesting is, when I set to monitor mic signal trough Scarlett, when I turn Monitor / Playback knob all way to left, to monitor only trough Scarlett, everything sound perfect and smooth.

Unfortunately, Scarlett 2i4 don't have the Control panel, or MixControl, if that is what you meant, it comes with just simple Control panel where I can change Sample rates and Buffer sizes.

What give me most headaches is the fact that I had perfect signal gain after I updated Windows 10, and gain knob on Scarlett was on 50% when I tried and recorded vocal, but tomorrow, when I turned on computer and I tried to record, I got the same problem.

As far as I know, ASIO driver should bypass all Windows drivers, controllers, but to me, it sounds like something, somewhere between Scarlett and DAW amplifies the signal, to me it sounds like Windows 10 somehow can catch the signal.

 

[TheM]

One more thing I realized, is when I record vocal trough Focusrite Scarlett ASIO driver, no mather what gain I set, microphone will catch too much sound of the room, too much of all noises around me. But, when I uninstalled and removed Focusrite device and drivers, and I let Windows to set his USB driver for Focusrite Scarlett and I tried to record trough WavesOut driver or MME driver, in Sound preferences, under Input devices, I can turn down Input signal strength and when I record, signal is incomparably cleaner and smoother.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Gain is the amount of amplification. That is controllable with the knob on the Scarlett. So can you explain what you mean by when you turn up the volume the microphone sounds like it has too much gain? Is it distorting or something?

Even better, capture the sound of "too much gain" and also of the one without ASIO in use that you say sounds fine. Post short files and let us hear it.

 

[TheM]

When I record my vocal, and gain knob on Scarlett is below clipping, on about 30% - 40% of maximum, and in Reaper that will be somewhere around -20dbfs on peak meter, recorded vocal sounds overgained. Some frequencies are slightly distorted, too much harmonics. Even if I turn down gain knob more on Scarlett, to something around -30dbfs in Reaper peak meter, and I record vocal on that level, it is still the same.

About volume thing, I maybe confused you because I am trying hard to be god as I can in English and to find right words (sorry about that). On recorded track, I push up volume fader in Reaper, or much preferable, I set the track volume to be on some "normal" mixing level around -18dbfs (gain staging) so I can clearly hear what is recorded.

Tomorrow I will record vocal so you can hear what is the problem.
I will record through ASIO driver and I will record through WaveOut driver.

Edit:
I always forgot letter H in tHrough, so I corrected this post.

 

[Pluto]

From just a skim of this thread, it seems as though there is rather too much gain in the microphone chain. Rode mics are quite high output so you really do need a way of reducing the overall gain and this should always be done by reducing the gain of the microphone amplifier in the Focusrite unit. You should never reduce the gain later in the chain to compensate if the front end is being overloaded. With the gain reduced to minimum, if there is still a hint of distortion, too much ‘room’ sound and too much lip/tongue sound, the gain is too high.

You may be better off taking this question to Focusrite support who might know of a secret switch to reduce the gain for high output mics.