Safe listening levels and headphone voltage/power requirements

[solderdude]

I have only used the RCA out in the past.
It should be noted that 0.5% is not much and depending on the recording not even audible and only present at the peaks of a signal.
With today's 'loudness wars' the actual distortion due to the abundant usage of limiter/compressors is already much higher than that.
With well recorded music only occasionally 0dB peaks are reached and the rest is well below that.
Just for 'ease of mind' I set the Windows volume lower.

65-70dB average is common for an all day listening level and not dangerous in any way.

 

[Gershy13]

I have only used the RCA out in the past.
It should be noted that 0.5% is not much and depending on the recording not even audible and only present at the peaks of a signal.
With today's 'loudness wars' the actual distortion due to the abundant usage of limiter/compressors is already much higher than that.
With well recorded music only occasionally 0dB peaks are reached and the rest is well below that.
Just for 'ease of mind' I set the Windows volume lower.

65-70dB average is common for an all day listening level and not dangerous in any way.

Ah okay thank you. Well as i play games too, ill probably keep the output down by -3db so even during loud game audio it doesnt distort even if it is inaudible.

 

[xnor]

Interesting!

Yeah. In general we would need to incorporate each headphone's frequency response (FR) to get even more accurate results but that would require a lot of work.

In the worst case there's
1) a dip in the FR at 500 Hz or 1 kHz,
2) sensitivity is specified/measured at that frequency,
3) the FR has wide peaks below and especially above that frequency.

Because in that case the sensitivity number would underestimate the amount of sound energy produced.

But this can be easily mitigated by adjusting the Sensitivity or by equalizing and adjusting the Fixed Attenuation number accordingly.

A comfortable listening level for me is usually around -30db on the amp, which seems to roughly be equivalent to around 65-67dba. So this should mean that the volume i daily listen at is considered pretty safe? And for short periods i can go up to -18db on the amp (80dba) which is still considered safe for 40h a week?

Yes, that should be a very healthy level.

 

[JustCauseWhyNot]

I'm sorry, but I'm very lost on how to apply what you're saying. I've got hd560's, and a motu m2. I'm trying to find the correct source/amp parameters, but I'm not grasping the information needed. I'm also not sure what I'm supposed to do once I figure out the parameters to use. How do I know how much I should turn the knob for the motu m2? I really wanna set my headphones at a roughly 78dba, but I'm just failing badly at applying this advice. I'd really appreciate some help.

 

[Robbo99999]

I'm sorry, but I'm very lost on how to apply what you're saying. I've got hd560's, and a motu m2. I'm trying to find the correct source/amp parameters, but I'm not grasping the information needed. I'm also not sure what I'm supposed to do once I figure out the parameters to use. How do I know how much I should turn the knob for the motu m2? I really wanna set my headphones at a roughly 78dba, but I'm just failing badly at applying this advice. I'd really appreciate some help.

TLDR: it's a bit complicated to work out, and my explanation below probably won't really help you as it's difficult to explain (& I've not explained it very well, lol) and even then you just end up with a rough estimate. Happy for other users to provide a clearer workflow to help.

It can be a bit complicated to work out if you don't have a measurement rig that can measure what your headphone is outputting when playing your music (because you'd probably want to ultimately be measuring A-weighted noise exposure). You can theoretically work out what your max theoretical Vrms can be of your headphone at 1kHz for your normal listening levels, but it's a bit complicated. If you're using EQ then you need to take into account the negative preamp you're using as that decreases the sensitivity of your headphone at the 1kHz point (assuming the EQ for your headphone is mainly there to give it's biggest boost in the bass area rather than elsewhere). You also need to know what the max voltage output is of your headphone amp/dac system. You need to know the sensitivity of the headphone you're using at the 1kHz point. Then you need to do some experiments where you have amp & dac turned up to max volume but you use a negative preamp to bring down the volume to your normal listening level. You then do some calculations to work out the theoretical voltage that is being output to your headphones based on the size of the negative preamp you need to achieve your normal listening levels combined with the max output of the your DAC/amp system. At that point you can say that at your normal listening levels you have a max theoretical value of X Vrms at 1kHz which equates to max theoretical Y dB SPL at 1kHz - but that's still not really telling you how much noise you're being exposed to during your music listening, but at least you know that you'd be being exposed to less dB than what you just calculated which could give you piece of mind. I'm happy for someone to provide an easy to follow workflow for what I've just described if they know what I'm getting at, because this is a bit of a rubbish explanation!

 

[Phorize]

TLDR: it's a bit complicated to work out, and my explanation below probably won't really help you as it's difficult to explain (& I've not explained it very well, lol) and even then you just end up with a rough estimate. Happy for other users to provide a clearer workflow to help.

It can be a bit complicated to work out if you don't have a measurement rig that can measure what your headphone is outputting when playing your music (because you'd probably want to ultimately be measuring A-weighted noise exposure). You can theoretically work out what your max theoretical Vrms can be of your headphone at 1kHz for your normal listening levels, but it's a bit complicated. If you're using EQ then you need to take into account the negative preamp you're using as that decreases the sensitivity of your headphone at the 1kHz point (assuming the EQ for your headphone is mainly there to give it's biggest boost in the bass area rather than elsewhere). You also need to know what the max voltage output is of your headphone amp/dac system. You need to know the sensitivity of the headphone you're using at the 1kHz point. Then you need to do some experiments where you have amp & dac turned up to max volume but you use a negative preamp to bring down the volume to your normal listening level. You then do some calculations to work out the theoretical voltage that is being output to your headphones based on the size of the negative preamp you need to achieve your normal listening levels combined with the max output of the your DAC/amp system. At that point you can say that at your normal listening levels you have a max theoretical value of X Vrms at 1kHz which equates to max theoretical Y dB SPL at 1kHz - but that's still not really telling you how much noise you're being exposed to during your music listening, but at least you know that you'd be being exposed to less dB than what you just calculated which could give you piece of mind. I'm happy for someone to provide an easy to follow workflow for what I've just described if they know what I'm getting at, because this is a bit of a rubbish explanation!

Qudelix 5k gives a very good estimate if the sensivity and impedance data is any good. I use the data here: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/title-report.php?id=3560#gsc.tab=0

 

[JustCauseWhyNot]

TLDR: it's a bit complicated to work out, and my explanation below probably won't really help you as it's difficult to explain (& I've not explained it very well, lol) and even then you just end up with a rough estimate. Happy for other users to provide a clearer workflow to help.

It can be a bit complicated to work out if you don't have a measurement rig that can measure what your headphone is outputting when playing your music (because you'd probably want to ultimately be measuring A-weighted noise exposure). You can theoretically work out what your max theoretical Vrms can be of your headphone at 1kHz for your normal listening levels, but it's a bit complicated. If you're using EQ then you need to take into account the negative preamp you're using as that decreases the sensitivity of your headphone at the 1kHz point (assuming the EQ for your headphone is mainly there to give it's biggest boost in the bass area rather than elsewhere). You also need to know what the max voltage output is of your headphone amp/dac system. You need to know the sensitivity of the headphone you're using at the 1kHz point. Then you need to do some experiments where you have amp & dac turned up to max volume but you use a negative preamp to bring down the volume to your normal listening level. You then do some calculations to work out the theoretical voltage that is being output to your headphones based on the size of the negative preamp you need to achieve your normal listening levels combined with the max output of the your DAC/amp system. At that point you can say that at your normal listening levels you have a max theoretical value of X Vrms at 1kHz which equates to max theoretical Y dB SPL at 1kHz - but that's still not really telling you how much noise you're being exposed to during your music listening, but at least you know that you'd be being exposed to less dB than what you just calculated which could give you piece of mind. I'm happy for someone to provide an easy to follow workflow for what I've just described if they know what I'm getting at, because this is a bit of a rubbish explanation!

Would using a decibel meter just be more accurate?

 

[Robbo99999]

Would using a decibel meter just be more accurate?

Some people have done stuff like putting microphone through the centre of a CD and then clamping the headphone over that, maybe that's better than a theoretical calculation. I couldn't be sure unless I tested that Heath Robinson solution vs a bonafide measurement rig (eg miniDSP EARS would be fine for that purpose).

 

[solderdude]

I'm sorry, but I'm very lost on how to apply what you're saying. I've got hd560's, and a motu m2. I'm trying to find the correct source/amp parameters, but I'm not grasping the information needed. I'm also not sure what I'm supposed to do once I figure out the parameters to use. How do I know how much I should turn the knob for the motu m2? I really wanna set my headphones at a roughly 78dba, but I'm just failing badly at applying this advice. I'd really appreciate some help.

Average levels of 78dB on what recording ?
Using a DR4 or DR15 recording the ratio between average and peak levels is vastly different.
One can only make a guesstimate of the peak levels assuming those reach almost 0dBFS.
Then it must be clear what attenuation the volume control has on what position (when using the headphone out) which can/should be measured.

SPL meters that have an average level may not give the proper numbers when using music. Also it needs to be clear if it is A-weighted or other weighting.
Peak level meters also may not be very accurate.

 

[JustCauseWhyNot]

So what are the values of the motu m2 amp parameters? I look at the review on this site, but I don't know how to read the charts.