Sabaj A30a announced

[Roland68]

Forgot to ask, have you played around with the A30a and tryed out a few things? If yes and you do not mind my asking, what did you workout and decide to do?

Also which big Yamaha amp were you considering?

I've already written a lot about this in this thread, there are still a few tests to be done, but there are no time limits or specifications, so nothing I'd like to write about.
So far it's mainly been about uncovering basic disadvantages in playback and functionality, but I've already written all my findings about that too.

I was actually planning on getting an A-S3200, but the A30a got in the way and last year and this year I have other priorities. But I've had an A-S1000 for a while with very similar characteristics, the A-S3200 probably won't be any more expensive and the chances of getting a used device increase over time.

 

[KL....]

According to current knowledge, there are no differences in the digital area and amplifier circuit between the SMSL VMV A2 and Sabaj A30a.
The power supply is definitely the same, as are all the ICs and output transistors used.
As I now know that the entire installation in the A2 is upside down, we can also assume that the same layout was used. Perhaps with slight spatial adjustments and apart from the different connections for digital inputs and SUB output, which only affects the direct conductor tracks to the ICs.
So the entire implementation will also be the same.

View attachment 431773

Thank you, yes, perhaps the only CB difference is the SPDIF/Coax and SW Out mechanism/method area, although the SMSL VMV A2 also has an AES/EBU output. The Sabaj A30a having separate SPDIF/Coax and SW outputs, is much better, although an AES/EBU output would be nice. Without knowing, as you say, we can only assume that the rest is the same :=)

I can say that I am enjoying the A30a very muchly (truly), enjoy….

 

[KL....]

I've already written a lot about this in this thread, there are still a few tests to be done, but there are no time limits or specifications, so nothing I'd like to write about.
So far it's mainly been about uncovering basic disadvantages in playback and functionality, but I've already written all my findings about that too.

I was actually planning on getting an A-S3200, but the A30a got in the way and last year and this year I have other priorities. But I've had an A-S1000 for a while with very similar characteristics, the A-S3200 probably won't be any more expensive and the chances of getting a used device increase over time.

Thank you, not a problem, perhaps I have missed something.... is it easy to search for your posts in this thread?

Intrigueing.... quickly looked at the Yamaha A-S3200 which is well featured ($8k/$10k, yikes, but about the same price as the Pathos Classic One/III Integrated Amplifyer) and I shall have a further look it :=)

 

[Roland68]

• overall, the A30a, even with being fed with a $30 Laser brand DVD unit as Source via SPDIF, is now better than the Pathos Classic One/II Integrated Amplifyer (even lightly modded) being fed with an Audiolab 8200CDQ CDP/Pre.
• I always need to remind myself that the source is a $30 Laser brand DVD unit, using SPDIF output. I can say the result was completely unsuspected but I am very much enjoying the unsuspected surprise/result. I wonder how the A30a will perform when the repaired Audiolab 8200CDQ CDP/Pre is fixed and returns for me to utilise.
• The odd thing is that the $30 Laser brand DVD unit is reading the discs better than the Audiolab 8200CDQ CDP. I am a little surprised by this. Do you have any ideas, why?

Thank you, I am enjoying the A30a very muchly, now even more, enjoy….

Say goodbye to the idea that price, manufacturer or any audio brand has anything to do with the reading quality of CDs, or that it is even possible.
Older CD/DVD notebook drives deliver better results than most audio CD players, such as the uj160, to name just one of many, even at 5 or 9 times the reading speed. Some of these drives can be had for less than €10!
It doesn't matter whether you get a cheap €30 from a discounter or €5,000 (or more) for something audiophile, the technology is the same and digital.
Google CD Transport Shigaclone. This is a DIY CD transport made from a €35-80 Sanyo Boom Box (*1), which in many places has led to the same or better results (according to owners of Shigaclones and listening tests) than transports that are 100 times more expensive.
Incidentally, this is also my experience with significantly more than 100 CD/SACD players and transports, regardless of the price range (but my experience ends with the expensive esoteric players ;o).
Any questions?

(*1)
- Who makes the most drives again? Not counting the junk.
- Who makes all the belt drives in the high-quality CD players and transports of the last 30 years?
- Which manufacturer makes the drives in many current "high-quality" and more expensive players?
Definitely another one of those coincidences....

Take a look at CD production, masters for pressing, wear and tear, pits and lands and the problems with them, materials for the CD, reflection and permeability levels, reading process, etc., and you will quickly see that it is not just the drive that is crucial. This also changes the way you look at drives and lasers, which have to cope with many upstream problems. But be careful, it's a deep rabbit hole.

That should be enough off topic in this thread. More in a more appropriate thread.

 

[KL....]

Say goodbye to the idea that price, manufacturer or any audio brand has anything to do with the reading quality of CDs, or that it is even possible.
Older CD/DVD notebook drives deliver better results than most audio CD players, such as the uj160, to name just one of many, even at 5 or 9 times the reading speed. Some of these drives can be had for less than €10!
It doesn't matter whether you get a cheap €30 from a discounter or €5,000 (or more) for something audiophile, the technology is the same and digital.
Google CD Transport Shigaclone. This is a DIY CD transport made from a €35-80 Sanyo Boom Box (*1), which in many places has led to the same or better results (according to owners of Shigaclones and listening tests) than transports that are 100 times more expensive.
Incidentally, this is also my experience with significantly more than 100 CD/SACD players and transports, regardless of the price range (but my experience ends with the expensive esoteric players ;o).
Any questions?

(*1)
- Who makes the most drives again? Not counting the junk.
- Who makes all the belt drives in the high-quality CD players and transports of the last 30 years?
- Which manufacturer makes the drives in many current "high-quality" and more expensive players?
Definitely another one of those coincidences....

Take a look at CD production, masters for pressing, wear and tear, pits and lands and the problems with them, materials for the CD, reflection and permeability levels, reading process, etc., and you will quickly see that it is not just the drive that is crucial. This also changes the way you look at drives and lasers, which have to cope with many upstream problems. But be careful, it's a deep rabbit hole.

That should be enough off topic in this thread. More in a more appropriate thread.

Say goodbye to the idea.... ah, ok, that is a bit sad :=(
(*1), Definitely another one of those coincidences.... would have thought Philips/Sony but are you suggesting Sanyo?
But be careful, it's a deep rabbit hole.... one of those secret sauce holes to maintain market position (which is not progress nor helpful) :=(
More in a more appropriate thread.... fabulous, let me know when ready and happening :=)

 

[KL....]

Further impressions/update of the A30a, after firstly applying some (simple) resonance improvements to the $30 Laser brand DVD chassis (lid and feet) then improveing the AC feed to the A30a.

• the (musical) improvement is quite noticeable and I would suggest 20-20K. The unresolved congestion in the 750/900~1200/1500hz (perhaps higher) is now resolved (or nearly so). The little hardness/congestion in the 900~1200hz area (unresolved harmonics, a bell like beamyness, some call it shoutyness) is now resolved (or nearly so), open, natural/real/right, and essentially nonexistent (nolonger an issue). The Bass is tighter/fuller which is nice. Brass has that bite without displaying, 'You must only concentrate on me and nothing else', and are more resolved/nice when played in a delicate manner. The A30a, being fed with a $30 Laser brand DVD unit as Source via SPDIF, is (now) better than the Pathos Classic One/II Integrated Amplifyer (even lightly modded), being fed with an Audiolab 8200CDQ CDP/Pre. It could be suggested.... no synergy here, just better :=)
• Noticed that the A30a Lid/Chassis is now a little cooler to touch (intrigueing). Perhaps this and above are suggesting that the A30a SMPS (Mornsun LOF350-20B48, while very good), can be improved. I had a look at the Mornsun LOF350-20B48/LOF450-20B48/LOF550-20B48. Points noticed, sofar, are.... Output Ripple & Noise 250mV/200mV/200mV (wonder if 50mV is audible). Nominal Output Voltage and Current (Vo/Io) 48V/7.3A, 48V/9.4, 48V/11.46A. Same footprint (76x127), heights differ 25.4/38.5/40.5, same connections. I had a look at the Mean Well HRP N/N3 series.... the size is different, the connections are different, perhaps the Faraday cage is helpful, the Mornsun PFC is more efficient (94%).

 

[voodooless]

This is not how science works

 

[KL....]

This is not how science works

Looking forward to your measurements of the A30a and your analysis of them, that would be helpful. Btw, do you have an A30a, you have not indicated so? If no, would you buy one?

Btw, on Roland68/Toku posts/advice/helpfulness (thank you), I purchased an A30a and after listening to it I purchased another :=)

Perhaps, best to continue as I am until the measurements of the A30a are released :=)

 

[antcollinet]

Perhaps, best to continue as I am until the measurements of the A30a are released :=)

Or accept that the most likely explanation for your perceptions is perceptive bias, and recognise that they are (as such) not that useful to anyone except you - and therefore not much point describing them here.

Alternatively you could conduct some convincingly well executed blind comparisons (Tricky, I know, with the types of mods you are jerry rigging). Or carry out some measurements of your own to demonstrate the resulting differences. That is how real engineering is done - as opposed to cosplaying it.

 

[Doodski]

the (musical) improvement is quite noticeable and I would suggest 20-20K. The unresolved congestion in the 750/900~1200/1500hz (perhaps higher) is now resolved (or nearly so). The little hardness/congestion in the 900~1200hz area (unresolved harmonics, a bell like beamyness, some call it shoutyness) is now resolved (or nearly so), open, natural/real/right, and essentially nonexistent (nolonger an issue). The Bass is tighter/fuller which is nice. Brass has that bite without displaying, 'You must only concentrate on me and nothing else', and are more resolved/nice when played in a delicate manner. The A30a, being fed with a $30 Laser brand DVD unit as Source via SPDIF, is (now) better than the Pathos Classic One/II Integrated Amplifyer (even lightly modded), being fed with an Audiolab 8200CDQ CDP/Pre. It could be suggested.... no synergy here, just better :=)

You can't be serious...

 

[Doodski]

(wonder if 50mV is audible)

No, because by the time this is in the musical waveform it is not detectable.

 

[voodooless]

Keyword PSRR:

Power supply rejection ratio - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[antcollinet]

You can't be serious...

You wanna bet

 

[KL....]

Sure, it would appear that you guys are suggesting that you are experts, especially with measurements which is good, because then we can discuss the A30a from your your points of view. Looking forward to your measurements of the A30a and your analysis of them, that would be helpful, especially as you are suggesting that you are experts. You have (all) suggested that I have been doing this/that with the A30a, which is definitely not to your liking, so perhaps you guys could do this/that with the A30a, which is to your liking, that can be openly discussed.... that would be helpful, rather than the nonsense that you are currently posting.

Know that I have done nothing to the A30a and listened to it in its purchased form, only, from the seller (Hifi Express). However, I do like discussing the internal architecture and considerations of component/unit implementations and possible improvements.

Know that to this point, that you have not been helpful.... as you are experts, and it would appear that you are completely measurement based, then your measurements and analysis of the A30a would be good, because then we can openly discuss the A30a from your points of view. Although, that hasn't happened as yet but perhaps you will surprise with A30a measurements that you consider useful and open to discussion (which would be nice), instead of prideful/snideful/nonsense remarks, which unfortunately seem to be quite consistent, especially the one liners. Why do you seem to find them necessary, especially because they are unhelpful and as such, unnecessary? How are these posts going to make the already good A30a, even better? Perhaps you do not find the A30a good, or do not want others to purchase it, but I like it and have purchased 2 of them.

voodooless - Keyword PSRR:....

• yes, PSRR is important. So, for the A30a, what do you like about the PSRR or don't like about the PSRR?
• what would you like gleaned from wikipedia, for the A30a, from your point of view?

Doodski - You can't be serious....

• ok, this is what I am hearing (without) measurements, so until I have measurements to explain what I am hearing, well this will do. You are an expert with measurements, perhaps your measurement insights will be helpful. I do not have them but do you have any measurements of the A30a that will be helpful.

Output Ripple & Noise 250mV/200mV/200mV (wonder if 50mV is audible) .... No, because by the time this is in the musical waveform it is not detectable.

• ok, are you suggesting that 250mV/200mV Output Ripple & Noise will not be detectable/audible and/or the extra 50mV will not be detectable/audible?

antcollinet - Or accept that the most likely explanation for your perceptions is perceptive bias, and recognise that they are (as such) not that useful to anyone except you - and therefore not much point describing them here. Alternatively you could conduct some convincingly well executed blind comparisons (Tricky, I know, with the types of mods you are jerry rigging). Or carry out some measurements of your own to demonstrate the resulting differences. That is how real engineering is done - as opposed to cosplaying it.

• how would you consider that this is helpful? Why do you suggest that there is perceptive bias? Do you have perceptive bias and that this is something that you are concerned about, for yourself?
• Why do you find well executed blind comparisons, Tricky? What do you do that is so, Tricky? What do you consider is a well executed blind comparison, from your point of view?
• What types of mods are you suggesting that are being done are jerry rigging and what is jerry rigging, according to you?
• You an expert with measurements, which is good, because once you have done them with the A30a, and posted them, then we can all openly discuss them.
• Does everyone on this forum need to be an engineer like you, as you are suggesting?
• What does 'cosplaying it' mean, from your point of view?

Btw, do any of you have an A30a, you have not indicated so? If yes, why did you buy one? If no, would you buy one?

 

[voodooless]

Why do you suggest that there is perceptive bias?

Because you are human (at least, I assume so )

Do you have perceptive bias and that this is something that you are concerned about, for yourself?

Everyone has. It’s unavoidable and unstoppable. You should be very worried about it, because for instance; it makes you think something in the sound changed after you dampened your CD drive. There is simply no physical phenomenon that yields this result other than perception bias.

Btw, do any of you have an A30a, you have not indicated so?

I don’t, nor do I need measurements. We have them from the SMSL sister amp and they are pretty good. It’s just a good amp, like many others. Special is the design concept, not the performance. It’s simply an amp with excellent value. Were I in the market for an amp, I might certainly consider it.

 

[Doodski]

Doodski - You can't be serious....

• ok, this is what I am hearing (without) measurements, so until I have measurements to explain what I am hearing, well this will do.

It won't do here at ASR. It is subjective chatter.

 

[antcollinet]

Because you are human (at least, I assume so )

Everyone has. It’s unavoidable and unstoppable. You should be very worried about it, because for instance; it makes you think something in the sound changed after you dampened your CD drive. There is simply no physical phenomenon that yields this result other than perception bias.

I don’t, nor do I need measurements. We have them from the SMSL sister amp and they are pretty good. It’s just a good amp, like many others. Special is the design concept, not the performance. It’s simply an amp with excellent value. Were I in the market for an amp, I might certainly consider it.

Thanks - saved me the effort.

But just to add:

What do you consider is a well executed blind comparison, from your point of view?

Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)

Just uploaded a video on the basics of performing controlled tests in audio. It was motivated by saving myself text in having to write all of this down when telling someone who to do these tests right. And as a counter to a few online personalities to keep saying they do "blind" tests yet when...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Tonton_ZEeD]

This is not how science works

Science is what it is, all we really care is enjoying the music , no ?

 

[antcollinet]

Science is what it is, all we really care is enjoying the music , no ?

All we care about? No. Sure - probably the most important aspect for most here, as I am right now with a nice glass of chardonnay.

But what this site is particularly about when discussing the performance of gear, is discussing it based on scientific and engineering principles.

 

[PeterOo]

Because you are human (at least, I assume so )

ZeroGPT says 0% AI written. So I am afraid it is.
@KL.... , perhaps you could show us some science of non broken amplifiers that responded to modifications like you are doing with the audible differences you are describing.
And with science I do not mean sighted listening.