S.M.S.L DA-9 vs AO200?

[Daniel Vicente]

Just a heads up on the upcoming S.M.S.L. DO200 DAC. Check out the manual https://www.smsl-audio.com/upload/portal/download/DO200Manual.pdf (note: you have to scroll down to get to the English portion).

Damn, I already have too many DACs but at least on paper this looks really good. Page 17 lists the very impressive specs and capabilities.
and "the icing on the cake" is that it's a visual match for the AO200. Very impressive functionalities and connections. MQA capable.
XMOS XU-216, true 32bit audio processing, supports DoP and Native DSD, and reaches 32bit/768kHz and DSD512
Employs the ES9068AS from ESS Technology. Hopefully, the DAC/Chip is implemented well. I2S input. Bluetooth AptX HD, LDAC.
USB compatibility ........................Windows 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10 / 11, Mac OSX、Linux...

Emm... 2*ES9068AS chips and all required input, seems it got everything I want, I guess DO200 may over $500.

 

[jokan]

I've started a new thread with the imminent release of the DO200 on ASR:

SMSL Aoshida Hi-Fi DO200

I just received email from Aoshida Hi-Fi Japan that the DO200 will be released imminently. This is the information I have managed to discover. The pricing will be just over $500 USD. [Supports SMSL DO200 MQA full decoding] USB / OPT / coaxial / AES input supports MQA decoding function and...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I figured a new DAC deserves a new thread, that way the thread can remain on topic comparing the two amplifiers.

 

[arkelectron]

I received my SMSL AO200 without the screen working. I found that the FFC cable was slightly damaged and not connected to the screen properly. I was able to repair it and get it working.

Now,I have a problem with a hiss coming from the unit itself. With just power and nothing connected it doesn't make the sound. When the speakers are connected, the hissing starts.

I also have a popping sound coming from my left speaker at higher volumes.

 

[jokan]

I received my SMSL AO200 without the screen working. I found that the FFC cable was slightly damaged and not connected to the screen properly. I was able to repair it and get it working.

Now,I have a problem with a hiss coming from the unit itself. With just power and nothing connected it doesn't make the sound. When the speakers are connected, the hissing starts.

I also have a popping sound coming from my left speaker at higher volumes.

Check your amplifier by doing a hard reset. Push the power button (the big knob) and plug the amplifier back in.
You'll have a very short time to read the hardware version which should be 1.0
Firmware should be 1.1

You can also select bluetooth through the menu, it should say bluetooth on the selection screen.
When the amp flips back to bluetooth it should say bluetooth and not bluetoot. If it reads bluetoot, then you have an older unit. Send it back ASAP. Do not mention that you opened the amplifier as that voids any warranty that you have. Just mention this hiss sound which should not be present. Check and see if the hiss is still there with bluetooth. It's a seperate input completely from the RCA's and XLR's. In either case your amp should be DEAD silent. I wouldn't mess around with it or play music through it as you could have some major issues within the electronics of the amplifier. You can check for DC-offset if you know how which would give you an indication of what is going wrong. But the fact that you had to open up your amplifier and found a cable that was damaged is proof that you did not get a brand-new unit. Or a properly assembled unit.

Make it easier on yourself and contact the seller and also Aoshida Hi-Fi themselves. They have a website if your seller is uncooperative.

I'm sorry you had this experience but this is the first time I've heard of an AO200 that has a build quality issue. A firmware misspelling doesn't make the unit defective, just annoying when you select bluetooth and read bluetoot! There's every likelihood that you just got unlucky. Aoshida has been extremely responsive when dealing with them directly and helpful. As in they care about their customers, whereas Shenzen Audio, that is the exclusive dealer for the DA-9 doesn't seem to care about after the sale customer service.

There's no point in you trying to troubleshoot any further, the hiss noise is caused by a number of factors. The very fact that you had a defective or disconnected cable is evidence enough. I would still check for the firmware version to be sure of which generation you have. Unfortunately Amazon doesn't care or know to check for firmware versions and nor do many of the retailers. The only way to be sure that you have a current firmware version is by doing a full reset and reading the firmware/hardware versions. The screen only stays on for a brief 2-3 seconds so be ready for the screen to change through when you re-power your amplifier.

Good luck!

 

[arkelectron]

Check your amplifier by doing a hard reset. Push the power button (the big knob) and plug the amplifier back in.
You'll have a very short time to read the hardware version which should be 1.0
Firmware should be 1.1

You can also select bluetooth through the menu, it should say bluetooth on the selection screen.
When the amp flips back to bluetooth it should say bluetooth and not bluetoot. If it reads bluetoot, then you have an older unit. Send it back ASAP. Do not mention that you opened the amplifier as that voids any warranty that you have. Just mention this hiss sound which should not be present. Check and see if the hiss is still there with bluetooth. It's a seperate input completely from the RCA's and XLR's. In either case your amp should be DEAD silent. I wouldn't mess around with it or play music through it as you could have some major issues within the electronics of the amplifier. You can check for DC-offset if you know how which would give you an indication of what is going wrong. But the fact that you had to open up your amplifier and found a cable that was damaged is proof that you did not get a brand-new unit. Or a properly assembled unit.

Make it easier on yourself and contact the seller and also Aoshida Hi-Fi themselves. They have a website if your seller is uncooperative.

I'm sorry you had this experience but this is the first time I've heard of an AO200 that has a build quality issue. A firmware misspelling doesn't make the unit defective, just annoying when you select bluetooth and read bluetoot! There's every likelihood that you just got unlucky. Aoshida has been extremely responsive when dealing with them directly and helpful. As in they care about their customers, whereas Shenzen Audio, that is the exclusive dealer for the DA-9 doesn't seem to care about after the sale customer service.

There's no point in you trying to troubleshoot any further, the hiss noise is caused by a number of factors. The very fact that you had a defective or disconnected cable is evidence enough. I would still check for the firmware version to be sure of which generation you have. Unfortunately Amazon doesn't care or know to check for firmware versions and nor do many of the retailers. The only way to be sure that you have a current firmware version is by doing a full reset and reading the firmware/hardware versions. The screen only stays on for a brief 2-3 seconds so be ready for the screen to change through when you re-power your amplifier.

Good luck!

Thanks. Yes I have HW Ver 1.0 and SW Ver 1.1.

When I switch inputs, the sounds goes away for a couple seconds before coming back. It is present on all inputs. Bluetooth, USB, Balanced, and Unbalanced.

I emailed Aoshida about the screen and they responded but have not heard back about the popping and hiss.

 

[jokan]

Thanks. Yes I have HW Ver 1.0 and SW Ver 1.1.

When I switch inputs, the sounds goes away for a couple seconds before coming back. It is present on all inputs. Bluetooth, USB, Balanced, and Unbalanced.

I emailed Aoshida about the screen and they responded but have not heard back about the popping and hiss.

Who did you buy the amplifier from. which retailer? I would definitely be in touch with them ASAP. In the meantime, if you have another known "good" amplifier you can see if that noise comes around at the same time as with your new amplifier. I don't know what DAC you are using, but sometimes DAC's can be the root cause of noise. Not very often, but it isn't unheard of. Either case, you had a cable that you had to repair or reinstall which means you opened it. I would not advertise that fact. I would stick to playing dumb and just explain that you have this noise that comes and goes on any input. It's strange that it's happening on any source. What this means is that the issue is on the output section and after the source selector. So it's not likely to be an input source issue.

Playing the ignorant consumer is the best way to ensure that you receive a fully operational amplifier that is problem free. The AO200 is 2-ohm stable so the chances of having some sort of strange impedance related issue is unlikely. This is an amplifier output stage problem. For 4 different input sources including the built in DAC to all have the same noise is statistically improbable.

It's also the weekend. So don't expect immediate replies. Meanwhile don't risk any damage to your speakers by using the amplifier. You can have a huge amount of "hidden" DC playing on top of the music, at runaway voltages that WILL damage speakers and potentially other electronics downstream. Simply, it's not worth the risk. If you have another DAC or another input source that you know is 100% good, try that out and see if you have the same issue in but at low volume levels to play it safe, and keep the time of testing very short to safeguard your speakers from potential DC issues.

Both my AO200 (first firmware 1.0, and 1.1) are dead silent. My DA-9 was an early build and I fixed all the noise issues myself as they were all build quality issues. Your amps issues are not build quality issues from what you have shown and described. It is an electronical issue that could be from poor handling during shipping or it was poorly assembled, or it was a returned amp that was flashed for firmware and something was already wrong with it before they flashed the firmware. Lots of people have returned or exchanged the amps and we know many people have opened theirs. Some have gone as far as adding bypass caps in a failed attempt to get more robust bass from the amplifier not knowing that the amp is already operating at near maximum capacity with a safety margin.

One last thing I suggest you try is to plug your Amplifier into a totally different socket from the rest of your PC, DAC, and any other device that has a power brick. Keep your PC and computer devices on a different socket if at all possible. The higher performance graphics cards of today are literal NOISE MAKERs. Try that as a last resort, but I still say send it back and demand a replacement and make sure you don't have to pay for return shipping and express 2-3 day shipping via FEDEX or DHL. At no additional cost. They've inconvenienced you and I would push for it without being rude about it. Ask them nicely and they should oblige you.

 

[arkelectron]

Who did you buy the amplifier from. which retailer? I would definitely be in touch with them ASAP. In the meantime, if you have another known "good" amplifier you can see if that noise comes around at the same time as with your new amplifier. I don't know what DAC you are using, but sometimes DAC's can be the root cause of noise. Not very often, but it isn't unheard of. Either case, you had a cable that you had to repair or reinstall which means you opened it. I would not advertise that fact. I would stick to playing dumb and just explain that you have this noise that comes and goes on any input. It's strange that it's happening on any source. What this means is that the issue is on the output section and after the source selector. So it's not likely to be an input source issue.

Playing the ignorant consumer is the best way to ensure that you receive a fully operational amplifier that is problem free. The AO200 is 2-ohm stable so the chances of having some sort of strange impedance related issue is unlikely. This is an amplifier output stage problem. For 4 different input sources including the built in DAC to all have the same noise is statistically improbable.

It's also the weekend. So don't expect immediate replies. Meanwhile don't risk any damage to your speakers by using the amplifier. You can have a huge amount of "hidden" DC playing on top of the music, at runaway voltages that WILL damage speakers and potentially other electronics downstream. Simply, it's not worth the risk. If you have another DAC or another input source that you know is 100% good, try that out and see if you have the same issue in but at low volume levels to play it safe, and keep the time of testing very short to safeguard your speakers from potential DC issues.

Both my AO200 (first firmware 1.0, and 1.1) are dead silent. My DA-9 was an early build and I fixed all the noise issues myself as they were all build quality issues. Your amps issues are not build quality issues from what you have shown and described. It is an electronical issue that could be from poor handling during shipping or it was poorly assembled, or it was a returned amp that was flashed for firmware and something was already wrong with it before they flashed the firmware. Lots of people have returned or exchanged the amps and we know many people have opened theirs. Some have gone as far as adding bypass caps in a failed attempt to get more robust bass from the amplifier not knowing that the amp is already operating at near maximum capacity with a safety margin.

One last thing I suggest you try is to plug your Amplifier into a totally different socket from the rest of your PC, DAC, and any other device that has a power brick. Keep your PC and computer devices on a different socket if at all possible. The higher performance graphics cards of today are literal NOISE MAKERs. Try that as a last resort, but I still say send it back and demand a replacement and make sure you don't have to pay for return shipping and express 2-3 day shipping via FEDEX or DHL. At no additional cost. They've inconvenienced you and I would push for it without being rude about it. Ask them nicely and they should oblige you.

I bought it from Amazon Aoshida HiFi-US and it came directly from Aoshida.

I am using a Schiit Modi DAC. However, the sound from the unit occurs if nothing but the speakers are connected.

Popping sound on the left speaker occurs with any source.

I also tried plugging it into a different socket and the behavior did not change.

 

[jokan]

oh, popping noises too. send it back! Ask for an exchange, go through amazon's website for Aoshida Hi-Fi USA and email them directly.
Explain that you aren't angry but you are disappointed after reading and hearing so many great reviews.

Don't demand anything but ask if they would waive the fee for you to ship the unit back, and literally demand that the new replacement be tested for all connections.

The popping is either a wild DC-offset issue or a bad solder on the 4 op-amps. 2 of which are for RCA and XLR, but since you're having noise with literally every source, it seems that you have a DC-offfset issue which is beyond the scope of your repair.

 

[arkelectron]

oh, popping noises too. send it back! Ask for an exchange, go through amazon's website for Aoshida Hi-Fi USA and email them directly.
Explain that you aren't angry but you are disappointed after reading and hearing so many great reviews.

Don't demand anything but ask if they would waive the fee for you to ship the unit back, and literally demand that the new replacement be tested for all connections.

The popping is either a wild DC-offset issue or a bad solder on the 4 op-amps. 2 of which are for RCA and XLR, but since you're having noise with literally every source, it seems that you have a DC-offfset issue which is beyond the scope of your repair.

Yeah, I'm going to ask for a replacement. Technically I do have all the equipment and capability to repair it myself though

 

[jokan]

Yeah, I'm going to ask for a replacement. Technically I do have all the equipment and capability to repair it myself though

I think it's a bad flux solder job personally. You know, where they just heat up the board and the chip almost self solders' itself.
Common practice in line assembly on a smaller scale. They certainly are not likely to be using robots to solder these amps and parts. The amount of programming hours to set up all the robots to know where each pin goes makes it less likely especially when they make so many different amplifiers with different cases and pcb's but are basically identical amplifiers with a different form factor. I don't know the correct term for this form of soldering but I know it's super cheap and fast. All that's needed for a pop noise or hiss is one bad connection.

 

[Shuna]

Hi, long time lurker and preparing to invest in some end-game desktop gear.
SMSL is one of my candidates, although I have yet to decide on whether to go with the more budget gear (MA300/SA300) or just jump on to SA9/SH9/DA9/AO200/etc.

Anyways, could anyone share the dimensions of the AO200 including the protrusions, such as connectors, knob, and feet?
(By the looks of the diagram on the homepage, it seems like the 210 W x 40 H x 170 D measurement does not include protrusions)

A bit tight on desk space so would need to make sure!

 

[jokan]

@Shuna The AO200 has supplied rubber feet which you can remove very easily with a firm thumb. Use some 3M adhesive remover to clean up the glue residue. The factory feet are about 8mm in height, 12mm wide. I swapped mine for 10mm wide 5mm tall, plus the are a smidge softer so they actually compress a bit. Not sure if the volume knob is accounted for but it's a 10mm deep knob about 30mm in diameter.

You want to get the latest device in general. One that has the same internal parts as the AO200 which has a few upgrades compared to the DA-9 which does have an effect on sound quality. Namely the Zobel circuit is changed. The dual Infineon/Merus is a big upgrade from the prior generation amplifier that had a single chip. The rest is form factor as you already noted. If size and shape is a concern, you should also be concerned about the power bricks or AC adaptors. The DA-9 and the AO200 have no external power bricks, just a standard power cable is needed. There are small differences with the other devices that are made by the same parent company. So note the differences, chose the one that suits you best. Remember though that the DA-9 and the AO200 represent the latest in Infineon/Merus technology. It's not just that they are dual chips, there is a lot more going on to change the sound quality. I've had both, I still have my AO200 and I think I'm keeping it until I break it. I haven't turned it off in more than a month. It's been on and playing something 24/7 for that time.
The Sajab model, not sure of the model number is basically the same unit as the AO200.
The key is dual Infineon/Merus chips over a single chip. I wish SMSL would just write off the older models and discontinue selling them like most of the top brands do. It's a write off depending on the country I suppose. In the USA, the UK, and EU, old production models that are discontinued can be a tax write-off. So they just destroy old units once they decide to cancel the production.

Hope the info helps!

 

[arkelectron]

I think it's a bad flux solder job personally. You know, where they just heat up the board and the chip almost self solders' itself.
Common practice in line assembly on a smaller scale. They certainly are not likely to be using robots to solder these amps and parts. The amount of programming hours to set up all the robots to know where each pin goes makes it less likely especially when they make so many different amplifiers with different cases and pcb's but are basically identical amplifiers with a different form factor. I don't know the correct term for this form of soldering but I know it's super cheap and fast. All that's needed for a pop noise or hiss is one bad connection.

I think I have traced it to the MA12070 capacitors causing the noise. They must be cracked internally or came from a bad batch.

 

[jokan]

I think I have traced it to the MA12070 capacitors causing the noise. They must be cracked internally or came from a bad batch.

View attachment 160198

it's most likely the method that they use to solder. They use a flux system or something where they just place the ic on the board, heat it and presto it's soldered. But it's more suited to small batches where the creator of the product can clean up afterwards.
I really advise you not to dig into it much further as you might leave tale-tale signs that you've been in there.

I have zero doubt that the problem is in the manufacturer.
The fact is all that QC means is that the product was assembled. Not tested thoroughly for correct functionality. These products are ultra cheap cost wise and a proper QC equals man/woman hours. Don't expect a $300ish product to undergo thorough testing. They will take their chances and ship the product, if it bounces back, they either scrap the item or they actually do perform a repair if it's something like a ribbon cable or bt antenna that needs replacing. Either way, leave it alone and ship it back. If you continue to use the amp as it is, you are running the risk of abnormally high DC-offset and you won't be able to hear it necessarily. You'll just have hidden DC in the AC audio outputs. And the biggest risk is runaway DC offset which will damage speakers and anything connected to the amplifier. Just send it back. I know you're curious to figure out the problem. But I assure you it's not worth the time. The caps are what i suspected from the start, other than a faulty solder on the op-amps as they would act on all inputs and outputs. All it takes for dsm capacitors is a tiny bit of extra heat and you can kill them. I'm not a fan of dsm parts because they are such a pain to troubleshoot. Give me a point to point tube amp anyday and i can troubleshoot it with ease! And it'll probably sound better too! I've got several class-d amps, the Aoshida being the most complicated one. I wish they'd just make a power amp version with no preamp other than some dip-switches for gain control. I have a DAC which doubles as a preamp. I don't need a dual preamp setup. And they could spend the left over money on the amplifier, get rid of Bluetooth, and free up the board. Maybe throw in a better quality power supply!

But I digress. I think that your troubleshooting is probably 100% accurate. But it's far better and easier for you to ask for a replacement. You can ask both Aoshida themselves, and Aoshida Hi-Fi USA to do a functionality test before they ship you the replacement unit. They did so with my first AO200 because of the bluetoot connection. The only reason I know they tested my specific unit that they shipped back to me is that the volume was on 70 or max which is not how they ship the factory AO200. They didn't complain, they were very helpful. I believe that they don't want to re-buy their clients. They want Aoshida customers to come back and buy more of their products. A rare thing in Chinese built Hi-Fi products, especially at this price point!

Cheers and good luck to you! Also, I know they check these forums! lol.

 

[RB23]

I received and setup the AO200 yesterday in the master bedroom. Started playing it for some relaxation before sleeping. I need to report a problem though - I was still listening to it 3 hrs later..... Enjoying it very much!

 

[Shuna]

@jokan Thanks for the detailed reply.

Ah, if the feet are not included in the 40mm height measurement, a AO200/DO200 (and probably DA-9/SU-9) will likely barely fit under my desk shelf. Might need to swap out the feet like you mentioned though.

I would love to get the latest device of everything, but that would make me keep increasing my budget!
I was initially just looking at the Loxjie A30 all-in-one solution but thought "if I'm just going to upgrade in 6 months or so, mind as well just get myself something that will last me 2 years+".

So here I am now, contemplating to get a separate DAC, Speaker Amp, and Headphone Amp, and as my budget increases, so do my options.
Although, I am limited by desktop space, hence the SMSL/other "chi-fi" devices appeal to me. Planning to run a KEF Q150, Q350, Triangle Borea BR02, BR03, or Dali Oberon 1 btw.

I actually also live in Tokyo, most of the places I have visited recommend Marantz/Denon/Fostex/Luxman/Yamaha/other "big names".
They are all reputable brands of course, but I think I can do better cost-performance wise and desk-footprint wise.

Right now, I am thinking of either
・DA-9/SU-9/SH-9 stack
・AO200/DO200/HO200 stack
・DAC + Speaker Amp combo of above + some other headphone amp (love the JDS knob)
・M300 MKII/SA300/some other headphone amp

I don't plan to make the purchase right away btw.
I'm planning on moving out of my current apartment early next year and am deciding on desk layout/other furniture, hence also deciding on an audio set to place on my desk.

 

[DACslut]

@jokan Thanks for the detailed reply.

Ah, if the feet are not included in the 40mm height measurement, a AO200/DO200 (and probably DA-9/SU-9) will likely barely fit under my desk shelf. Might need to swap out the feet like you mentioned though.

I would love to get the latest device of everything, but that would make me keep increasing my budget!
I was initially just looking at the Loxjie A30 all-in-one solution but thought "if I'm just going to upgrade in 6 months or so, mind as well just get myself something that will last me 2 years+".

So here I am now, contemplating to get a separate DAC, Speaker Amp, and Headphone Amp, and as my budget increases, so do my options.
Although, I am limited by desktop space, hence the SMSL/other "chi-fi" devices appeal to me. Planning to run a KEF Q150, Q350, Triangle Borea BR02, BR03, or Dali Oberon 1 btw.

I actually also live in Tokyo, most of the places I have visited recommend Marantz/Denon/Fostex/Luxman/Yamaha/other "big names".
They are all reputable brands of course, but I think I can do better cost-performance wise and desk-footprint wise.

Right now, I am thinking of either
・DA-9/SU-9/SH-9 stack
・AO200/DO200/HO200 stack
・DAC + Speaker Amp combo of above + some other headphone amp (love the JDS knob)
・M300 MKII/SA300/some other headphone amp

I don't plan to make the purchase right away btw.
I'm planning on moving out of my current apartment early next year and am deciding on desk layout/other furniture, hence also deciding on an audio set to place on my desk.

The AO200's USB DAC section is nothing to get excited about. It doesn't actually suck by the slimmest of margins. I would cautiously classify it as just narrowly below serviceable.

 

[Shuna]

The AO200's USB DAC section is nothing too get excited about. It doesn't actually suck by the slimmest of margins. I would cautiously classify it as just narrowly below serviceable.

I don't plan on using the AO200's DAC section. If I were to get it, it would be as a stack with the DO200.

 

[jokan]

I would avoid the Japanese brands, they simply rebrand or import amplifier boards and fit them into their amplifiers.
That being said, the Japanese brands have all lost their edge. Many have ICEpower inside, the better ones have hypex/ncore. Mostly they are overpriced for the performance they have on offer.

The AO200 has a built in DAC, think of it as a space filler. The volume pot has 4 sources, they used them all up with the built in DAC which sounds good enough for CD playback assuming you have a good CD player but you already mentioned other options such as the:
AO200/DO200/HO200 stack. My main question would be do you absolutely need a headphone amplifier? The headphone amplifier is rather expensive! The new DO200 which in Japan will be available very, very soon (end of the Month) is going to be quite good but I personally have absolutely zero interest in MQA. I would have rather they lowered the price as MQA requires licensing fees and the results for MQA leave me with more questions than answers. The fact that some extremely well known musicians will not provide their music for MQA tells me an awful lot about what they think of the format. That being said all the performance specs and the fact that firmware will be user updatable tells me good things about the DAC.

People on this thread know what I think of the debate between the DA-9 and the AO200. I've kept the AO200, sold the DA-9 the instant I turned the factory fresh AO200.

I use the RME ADI-2 DAC fs. The reason is that it's simply more powerful a device for tailoring to your specific room and also your speakers with a 5 band parametric EQ with adjustable centre frequencies for both bass and treble with adjustable Q on both of the 2 additional bands and it has a very adequate headphone amplifier.

With any system it goes like this. First the source must be as good as possible, then the amplifier must be as good as possible. An amplifier is a dumb device. It only amplifies whatever signal it is fed. The speakers are up to you as preference and room size and listening volume are key factors. Just avoid using speakers that are far too large for your listening space. You can have too much speaker for a listening room. In a typical Tokyo residence, you're talking about a small listening space. You don't need 12" woofers unless you want to hear the bass sound best in the room down the hall. Bass sinewaves/waveforms are extremely long. Much bigger and longer than your typical Japanese home or residence. A good pair of bookshelf speakers with good room-treatment will go very far.

If you add the cost of the DO200 and the HO200, you're already near the cost of the RME ADI-2 DAC fs. Especially once you add all the cables you'll need to connect everything up. So you need to take the time to balance out the cost/benefit ratio. You can see in my profile pic how the AO200 and the RME ADI-2 DAC fs line up. They're very close in size. The layout of the screen and knob are very close. I use the RME as my preamp and the amp is set to max volume, connected by Belden 88760 XLR's from Amazon Jp by cable craft. Choose the gold plated neurtik sockets and plugs over the silver nickel plugs and sockets. There are many ways to go. If MQA isn't a priority then RME is a bit more, but it's far more powerful. The owners manual is more like a short novel. RME is a Pro-Audio company with a very good reputation. Also the German's have known a thing or two about sound reproduction for decades, if not longer.

The DA-9 is cool, especially if you want a more "forward" presentation over the AO200. The SU-9 has a newer model that took away MQA. I'm not familiar enough with the SH-9 to make any comments. Remember that when it comes to DAC's newer isn't always better. In fact I know of a boutique Japanese brand that uses the ES9012 to this day. They see no legitimate reason to change the chip. It is of course well over $10,000 usd in price but the parts that they use are extremely expensive, just two of the caps cost over $200 combined and there is a slew of paper-in-oil capacitors that go along with it each of which cost over $100 each. I believe there are 3 of them inside. Then you have the chassis, the power supply/transformers. The electrolytic capacitors that are built for them by Nichicon, you can't just buy them at Akihabara/Electric Town. A lot of know-how is put into their DAC's. They also pretty much have a small but loyal customer base so they are not interested in selling hundreds of units which in turn raises the price. Exclusivity always raises costs.

So my best advice to you is to spend the money on your front end or source unit, in modern times this means the DAC. Spend the bulk of your money there first, then the amplifier and speakers to suit your room. That is the order I would take and do take for myself. Of course you are free to do whatever you wish to do with your hard earned cash!

Forget about over-priced Japanese amplifiers. Most of the shops don't know about SMSL or Topping or other Chinese brands that offer superior performance and sound over their Japanese counterparts. The Japanese use a derogatory term similar to Chi-Fi but much worse in connotation. They simply are unaware at the retail level of what they are selling. I don't know of a single Japanese amplifier other than the new Technics amplifier that has genuinely Japanese engineering behind it. And even with those amps, I can think of a few handfuls of European and American products that sound better (more musical) than the Technics amplifier. I've had private auditions of their new amps. I was left wanting. They sound good don't get me wrong, but I've heard so many amplifiers in my professional career that I know that there is better for the money.

Of course any salesperson worth their job is going to try to push you towards something they have in inventory. Many stores in Japan offer incentives to the entire sales staff if they sell brand X this month, and the following month they will be asked to push brand Y. Another mass merchant only has one or two knowledgeable people in their staff, this store has it's audio section on the 4th floor. There is only one man there that has an encyclopedic knowledge and he's a manufacturers rep for JBL, McIntosh, and another brand which I forget. He used to work for Onkyo before they combined with JVC Kenwood, and he sold me German made ELAC's not the Andrew Jones designed speakers. A proper salesperson who listened to what the buyer wanted and offered me a selection of speakers to listen to and even moved them away from the wall of speakers and placed them in a corner room that had zero speakers at the time and only a few electronics so I could hear just those cones moving and not all the surrounding cones moving because everything is so tightly packed together. He made the employees of the store move really fast so that I could listen without interference from the sales people. He understood that I already knew what I was looking for in a speaker.

Take your time. There is no reason to match AO products with AO only, or SMSL with SMSL only. Other than for purely cosmetic reasons. Find the right device that is relatively future proof. Think of 5 years not 2 years. That DAC that uses the ES9012 has been on the market for nearly 10 years with only minor updates which are available to the customer if they chose to update their DACs internally.

Think of customer service too. AO seems to be, at least in my experience definitely above SMSL/Shenzen Audio. SMSL makes the amplifier for Shenzen Audio, or at their request. I'm sure AO has a similar arrangement also but the Shenzen SMSL products are pretty much tail-light warranty. You have to pay for repairs or a defective unit out of pocket. Shipping to China via EMS is not cheap these days.

Take your time and make the right purchase for your needs, and think about your needs in 5 years time.

Cheers, and sorry for the long winded response. I'd rather you be happy with your purchase than have to keep replacing every other year. That's hard on the wallet and as most of us know, most devices have the numbers to back up that any oddities in the sound are beyond the threshold of hearing. You will find a different character to the sound of E vs A chips, but AKM had a fire and so their chips are incredibly hard to find. I suspect that Amazon has the AKM chipped DAC's still in stock but the mass-merchants are definitely near zero in Japan already.

 

[arkelectron]

Just heard from Aoshida and they are sending me a new unit.