Thanks for the class D primer. Why don't you like OP-amps in this application?
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S.M.S.L DA-9 vs AO200?
- Thread starter DACslut
- Start date
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I like op-amps just fine. I don't like designs that have an input buffer op-amp and output op-amp. I find the designs of such preamplification to be redundant. I am perfectly happy with a singular op-amp used on the input stage without an additional stage. The Puri-fi design has an excellent discrete op-amp and it would not be possible to get the performance numbers without the discrete op-amp design. It's when a company like International Rectifier Company, which was then bought by Infineon who started Merus as a sub-brand and makes an op-ampless design that makes me question the need for an op-amp. That's all.
We can't expect a sub $300 amplifier to comprehensively out-perform amplifiers that cost 10x the price. What Infineon/Merus has achieved with their chips is extremely impressive.
We can't expect a sub $300 amplifier to comprehensively out-perform amplifiers that cost 10x the price. What Infineon/Merus has achieved with their chips is extremely impressive.
My DC offset is -34 right and +22 left. Is taking apart the amp and putting on new paste difficult? I build my own PC's so I have some of this compound sitting around: MasterGel Pro High Thermal Conductivity Compound | Cooler Master .
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
DISCLAIMER! You are knowingly voiding your warranty from the factory and you alone are responsible for any damage that may occur from any modification you perform to your amplifier!
Just had to get that out of the way.
You're going to need to remove all of the rear screws. Make sure you put them back where they came from, some are machine screws, some are not. the screws around the XLR's are obvious after a few turns. Then you have to remove the front screws.
http://hudsonvalleyhifi.com/tutorials-and-tech-support/checking-for-dc-offset
Remove the old grease with a lint free shop towels, like the blue ones that you can find at any auto parts store. Use isopropyl alcohol to remove all of the old grease, use a qtip to get the edges of the aluminium blocks. Apply the new thermal paste. It looks like the thermal paste you have does not contain metals as it says it's a polymer. And grey in colour. If there's metal in the compound, it would warn you because semi-conductors!
There are several guides on how to properly measure for DC offset. 60mV is the upper limit for the chips. 10-40 is well within the normal range. Don't expect to get below 1mV. I got extremely lucky. I've been checking the DC offset with my two meters and mine fluctuates a little bit which is totally normal. Just as long as it never exceeds 60mV you're ok. The lower the number the better, and safer for sensitive (mechanically sensitive/electrically sensitive) tweeters. Some heil motion, and ribbon tweeters are super sensitive to run-away voltages that can happen if the chip or something else is defective. Make sure the volume is set to zero, select an unused input. wait for 10 minutes before measuring, make sure you have good contact with the terminals. They sell banana plugs that work with multi-meters though the quality varies. Beware of cheap multi-meters. They're notoriously inaccurate. Especially when we're talking about mV.
If you've built a PC, then you can mechanically handle the process of disassembly and reassembly. Just use common sense or rather mechanical common sense and combine that with some electrical knowledge, you should be fine. It's highly unlikely that you would get the same numbers left and right channel. The amplifier isn't dual-mono in construction. The electrical path isn't equal lengths or impedance left/right. I would be suspicious of seeing identical numbers left and right. Mine isn't equal. I forget which channel, but one of the channels is consistently higher than the other channel.
In any case, you know by building PC's that thermal paste is important. That cheap white stuff that comes factory isn't suitable for good thermal conductivity. you'll see what I mean when you slide the board out. Slide it out from the rear of the chassis. There's plenty of length for the display screen ribbon and volume selector ribbon cable. no snaps, the ribbon just slides in and out but be gentle in case you crease the ribbon wire, just in case.
As always take care to reassemble everything in reverse order. DO NOT over tighten the screws! The Aluminium used for the screws is really low quality. Take a photo of one of the screws after you removed it and zoom in on the picture. You'll see what I mean instantly! The chassis itself is also on the softer end of Aluminium! Think of it as recycled aluminium, not fresh aluminium. It's certainly not of the highest quality! I have sadly seen worse being used however!
Don't rush anything, but the process should take you from 10-30 minutes if you've taken an amp apart before. I can't stress the importance of putting the correct screws back in the correct spot. And the RCA sockets are a bit of a pain since they are on copper leads and will bend with ease, to counteract this, just make sure you push it forward before you reassemble everything. You won't be able to push it too far forward without putting in some force. The pressure you apply should be finger pressure, nothing more than a light push.
Take pictures before, during, and after you start the process, that way you can go back and look at what you've done in case you had to break away in between or have memory like mine (really poor short term memory here).
It takes some time for the new thermal paste to start to dry out a little bit and makes proper contact. This is par for the course.
You should see an improvement be it by sound, or lack of noise, or DC offset. Take measurements again, and wait a day and take measurements again. You should see an improvement. It's not a given, but you should. It certainly shouldn't get worse.
Just had to get that out of the way.
You're going to need to remove all of the rear screws. Make sure you put them back where they came from, some are machine screws, some are not. the screws around the XLR's are obvious after a few turns. Then you have to remove the front screws.
http://hudsonvalleyhifi.com/tutorials-and-tech-support/checking-for-dc-offset
Remove the old grease with a lint free shop towels, like the blue ones that you can find at any auto parts store. Use isopropyl alcohol to remove all of the old grease, use a qtip to get the edges of the aluminium blocks. Apply the new thermal paste. It looks like the thermal paste you have does not contain metals as it says it's a polymer. And grey in colour. If there's metal in the compound, it would warn you because semi-conductors!
There are several guides on how to properly measure for DC offset. 60mV is the upper limit for the chips. 10-40 is well within the normal range. Don't expect to get below 1mV. I got extremely lucky. I've been checking the DC offset with my two meters and mine fluctuates a little bit which is totally normal. Just as long as it never exceeds 60mV you're ok. The lower the number the better, and safer for sensitive (mechanically sensitive/electrically sensitive) tweeters. Some heil motion, and ribbon tweeters are super sensitive to run-away voltages that can happen if the chip or something else is defective. Make sure the volume is set to zero, select an unused input. wait for 10 minutes before measuring, make sure you have good contact with the terminals. They sell banana plugs that work with multi-meters though the quality varies. Beware of cheap multi-meters. They're notoriously inaccurate. Especially when we're talking about mV.
If you've built a PC, then you can mechanically handle the process of disassembly and reassembly. Just use common sense or rather mechanical common sense and combine that with some electrical knowledge, you should be fine. It's highly unlikely that you would get the same numbers left and right channel. The amplifier isn't dual-mono in construction. The electrical path isn't equal lengths or impedance left/right. I would be suspicious of seeing identical numbers left and right. Mine isn't equal. I forget which channel, but one of the channels is consistently higher than the other channel.
In any case, you know by building PC's that thermal paste is important. That cheap white stuff that comes factory isn't suitable for good thermal conductivity. you'll see what I mean when you slide the board out. Slide it out from the rear of the chassis. There's plenty of length for the display screen ribbon and volume selector ribbon cable. no snaps, the ribbon just slides in and out but be gentle in case you crease the ribbon wire, just in case.
As always take care to reassemble everything in reverse order. DO NOT over tighten the screws! The Aluminium used for the screws is really low quality. Take a photo of one of the screws after you removed it and zoom in on the picture. You'll see what I mean instantly! The chassis itself is also on the softer end of Aluminium! Think of it as recycled aluminium, not fresh aluminium. It's certainly not of the highest quality! I have sadly seen worse being used however!
Don't rush anything, but the process should take you from 10-30 minutes if you've taken an amp apart before. I can't stress the importance of putting the correct screws back in the correct spot. And the RCA sockets are a bit of a pain since they are on copper leads and will bend with ease, to counteract this, just make sure you push it forward before you reassemble everything. You won't be able to push it too far forward without putting in some force. The pressure you apply should be finger pressure, nothing more than a light push.
Take pictures before, during, and after you start the process, that way you can go back and look at what you've done in case you had to break away in between or have memory like mine (really poor short term memory here).
It takes some time for the new thermal paste to start to dry out a little bit and makes proper contact. This is par for the course.
You should see an improvement be it by sound, or lack of noise, or DC offset. Take measurements again, and wait a day and take measurements again. You should see an improvement. It's not a given, but you should. It certainly shouldn't get worse.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
A little side note news from Qualcomm.
They have announced AptX Lossless. They expect to see headphones etc with the technology to start dropping next year, 2022.
No word on backwards compatibility, ie will you need a new mobile that supports the codec, or will it be an over the air update.
The reality seems to still be the same as LDAC in the sense that if you are in a place with lots of other bluetooth devices, or RF noise it will reduce it's lossless in steps until you get down to AptX, lossy format.
I think this is big and great news as people like me who dislike bluetooth for being inherently lossy will no longer be able to complain about the lossy aspect, though I am as close to certain as I can be that it would require new chips and codecs for both mobiles, headphones, amplifiers, speaker and receivers of BT, AptX Lossless.
The announcement was made a few days ago.
They have announced AptX Lossless. They expect to see headphones etc with the technology to start dropping next year, 2022.
No word on backwards compatibility, ie will you need a new mobile that supports the codec, or will it be an over the air update.
The reality seems to still be the same as LDAC in the sense that if you are in a place with lots of other bluetooth devices, or RF noise it will reduce it's lossless in steps until you get down to AptX, lossy format.
I think this is big and great news as people like me who dislike bluetooth for being inherently lossy will no longer be able to complain about the lossy aspect, though I am as close to certain as I can be that it would require new chips and codecs for both mobiles, headphones, amplifiers, speaker and receivers of BT, AptX Lossless.
The announcement was made a few days ago.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
a little experiment over the last day or so.
There are two sets of op-amps, the items I dislike for the most part as they are full of compromise.
One set is the ST micro 072C opamps, two pairs,
and there are 2 pairs of op(a) 1678's.
I replaced a pair of the 1678's with other ones I had on hand the old, but still a standard opa1612.
My opinion stands that what little you gain or lose from an op-amp swap is not worth the time, or the benefits or negatives of replacing the op-amps. It became clear after a few minutes that the Amplifier is well thought out with the parts selected. I am not sure what the ST micro 072c is for but I suspect that it is being used for either RCA outs, or Subouts which I believe to be more likely. If SMSL/Aoshida would be forthcoming with schecmatics it would make life much easier. I do not recommend any op-amp rolling as you must be skilled with a soldering iron, you certainly need temp-control, and you need to be very careful of the resistors and capacitors that are on the signal path. If you overheat the PCB, it will potentially damage Discrete surface mount resistors and capacitors.
The gains, if there are significant gains vs the potential for damage is to me, certainly not worth it.
Feel free to play around though I do not recommend voiding warranties and they will know when they see the new solder. It is in my opinion not worth the risk and the gains are negligible.
There are two sets of op-amps, the items I dislike for the most part as they are full of compromise.
One set is the ST micro 072C opamps, two pairs,
and there are 2 pairs of op(a) 1678's.
I replaced a pair of the 1678's with other ones I had on hand the old, but still a standard opa1612.
My opinion stands that what little you gain or lose from an op-amp swap is not worth the time, or the benefits or negatives of replacing the op-amps. It became clear after a few minutes that the Amplifier is well thought out with the parts selected. I am not sure what the ST micro 072c is for but I suspect that it is being used for either RCA outs, or Subouts which I believe to be more likely. If SMSL/Aoshida would be forthcoming with schecmatics it would make life much easier. I do not recommend any op-amp rolling as you must be skilled with a soldering iron, you certainly need temp-control, and you need to be very careful of the resistors and capacitors that are on the signal path. If you overheat the PCB, it will potentially damage Discrete surface mount resistors and capacitors.
The gains, if there are significant gains vs the potential for damage is to me, certainly not worth it.
Feel free to play around though I do not recommend voiding warranties and they will know when they see the new solder. It is in my opinion not worth the risk and the gains are negligible.
Hi jokan,
As you know, this is an area of interest for me. I remain persuaded that in some gear, discrete opamps do make a decided difference. That said, your warning about the hazards involved with soldered in place opamps and possible hindrances and easily breaking the amp are entirely valid. I know I don't have the needed skills and am happy to take your word for it regarding the AO200. Thanks for confirming it for us.
Some gear has socketed opamps which make trying out discrete opamps much less hazardous. Though even then, a particular opamp might not fit within the space allotted to them. The Burson opamp's vertical orientation can sometimes be an issue. Then there's the importance of aligning the pins in the proper order, reportedly of critical importance.
And I do wonder about the degree of connection in socketed opamps VS soldered ones. Silver connective paste might go far in alleviating that possible issue but we are also talking about invalidating the warranty. I've had a number of amps just die on me and if within the warranty, it's a stress reliever. I do plan on replacing the AO200's power cable and adding a iFi AC line conditioner to my Furman power strip but that's all I plan to do.
Knowing when to stop with 'upgrades' is part of not making perfect... the enemy of good enough. ;-)
As you know, this is an area of interest for me. I remain persuaded that in some gear, discrete opamps do make a decided difference. That said, your warning about the hazards involved with soldered in place opamps and possible hindrances and easily breaking the amp are entirely valid. I know I don't have the needed skills and am happy to take your word for it regarding the AO200. Thanks for confirming it for us.
Some gear has socketed opamps which make trying out discrete opamps much less hazardous. Though even then, a particular opamp might not fit within the space allotted to them. The Burson opamp's vertical orientation can sometimes be an issue. Then there's the importance of aligning the pins in the proper order, reportedly of critical importance.
And I do wonder about the degree of connection in socketed opamps VS soldered ones. Silver connective paste might go far in alleviating that possible issue but we are also talking about invalidating the warranty. I've had a number of amps just die on me and if within the warranty, it's a stress reliever. I do plan on replacing the AO200's power cable and adding a iFi AC line conditioner to my Furman power strip but that's all I plan to do.
Knowing when to stop with 'upgrades' is part of not making perfect... the enemy of good enough. ;-)
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I am completely convinced upon further listening that the original OPA 1678 is perfectly fine.
1612 is no better even though it might be on paper.
The effort and time involved is utterly useless.
Since I don't have the schematics, I am guessing at this point, but I only use XLR connections to my amplifier.
I don't think it's being used for "voicing" I believe it is used purely for creating the "balanced" outputs which really isn't truly balanced, but is a cheap way to make a circuit that is "semi-balanced". They could be using the ST 072C for RCA duty. And if that is the case, my fully restored and modified Circa 1997-1998 (depends on where you live) Sony SAVA-7's sound perfectly fine with the 072C's If it's being used as Sub-out, i tried my modified $20 Aiyima Mono Sub amp with adjustable gain and X-over and it sounded perfectly adequate. I'm sure If I changed out the op-amps on the Aiyima Sub amp (kit form, as in assembled PCB, it would produce a more colourful, powerful bass. (I have a bunch of LME48900, or something similar that is a bit punchier on the bass. But again, I will leave that device alone. I thought it sounded fine! I could keep going and spend the time and swap out 4.5mmX5mm 8 legged op-amps but I really, really don't see the purpose. Too many Discrete Surface Mount parts that are sharing the same thin copper trace. Even with my experienced and temp controlled soldering iron, the risk to me is far too great. It's a completely different story when you have full sized op-amps, but the industry has shifted to miniaturisation. It is in my opinion, not worth the trouble. If you want a better sounding $20 pre-built mono-sub amplifier with adjustable crossover and gain, then spend more money. I've already hacked off a section of the OEM heatsink for the 3116, changed both electrolytics and significantly upped the capacitance, and I have no "pop-noise" on turn on/off. I'm looking for a well designed compact case to install the device into. I think that there is always a point of diminishing returns. Spending 2-4x the cost in op-amps is very poor economics. If I were to install the pro-series ( I think that's what it's called), by Sparkos Labs, and went dual mono-chips, i think that might be worth while, but it would wind up costing me as much as the A0200. Yes, it will fit with their optional adaptors. The cost and extreme labour involved makes such minor increases completely not worth the effort.
1612 is no better even though it might be on paper.
The effort and time involved is utterly useless.
Since I don't have the schematics, I am guessing at this point, but I only use XLR connections to my amplifier.
I don't think it's being used for "voicing" I believe it is used purely for creating the "balanced" outputs which really isn't truly balanced, but is a cheap way to make a circuit that is "semi-balanced". They could be using the ST 072C for RCA duty. And if that is the case, my fully restored and modified Circa 1997-1998 (depends on where you live) Sony SAVA-7's sound perfectly fine with the 072C's If it's being used as Sub-out, i tried my modified $20 Aiyima Mono Sub amp with adjustable gain and X-over and it sounded perfectly adequate. I'm sure If I changed out the op-amps on the Aiyima Sub amp (kit form, as in assembled PCB, it would produce a more colourful, powerful bass. (I have a bunch of LME48900, or something similar that is a bit punchier on the bass. But again, I will leave that device alone. I thought it sounded fine! I could keep going and spend the time and swap out 4.5mmX5mm 8 legged op-amps but I really, really don't see the purpose. Too many Discrete Surface Mount parts that are sharing the same thin copper trace. Even with my experienced and temp controlled soldering iron, the risk to me is far too great. It's a completely different story when you have full sized op-amps, but the industry has shifted to miniaturisation. It is in my opinion, not worth the trouble. If you want a better sounding $20 pre-built mono-sub amplifier with adjustable crossover and gain, then spend more money. I've already hacked off a section of the OEM heatsink for the 3116, changed both electrolytics and significantly upped the capacitance, and I have no "pop-noise" on turn on/off. I'm looking for a well designed compact case to install the device into. I think that there is always a point of diminishing returns. Spending 2-4x the cost in op-amps is very poor economics. If I were to install the pro-series ( I think that's what it's called), by Sparkos Labs, and went dual mono-chips, i think that might be worth while, but it would wind up costing me as much as the A0200. Yes, it will fit with their optional adaptors. The cost and extreme labour involved makes such minor increases completely not worth the effort.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I've just thrown out my entire collection of Burson op-amps. I have some 1656's that on paper are kind of "better" than the Burson 6(i) not sure if there was an I, but the best ones. I've thrown out the 5 vivid's and the aluminium encased op-amps also. I have a distinct feeling that part the Burson op-amps appeal is that they look nice when fitted, and may well sound good or great in their headphone amps. I'm not so sure that the sound as good in other devices. And you are absolutely right, standard sized op-amps with sockets makes life much, much easier. Sonic imagery provides those tiny op-amp sockets so you can raise and fit their larger "sonic-imagery" line up of op-amps. And once you fit those sockets than you can use their discrete op-amps. They're mono, so you need 4 chips, and you need 2 adaptor. Do the math and that is far more than the cost of a A0200. Will you gain anything? I really, really don't think so. I think if anything placebo effect of performing the surgery with the stalwart 1612. Since I used XLR connections to my amplifier, and in the process of soldering and several pre-final assembly (puting the amplifier back in the case), I heard some pops when changing or touching any switch on the A0200. Once I re-fitted the original 1678's, no popping. Any noise was gone. And I was so afraid that I might have damaged the surrounding circuitry. There are a few caps, and a few resistors that use that same copper trace, mere mm's (at most a few Cm) away and further down the copper trace. Also even the best soldering iron and on the lowest possible temperature will scratch the painted/coated pcb. Making your modification very evident. I hid it as best as possible so It's barely noticeable at quick glance. But you will not fool anybody with shiny new solder if you tried to claim warranty.
I will say with 100% authority that Buson has amongst the world's best customer service. I had placed a large order with them just prior to the initial corona shut-downs, they used singapore post at the time. I'm in Tokyo, they shipped from HK. 3 months later and I received nothing. I knew covid was the cause, but Singapore post's tracking number actually disappeared all completely. I wrote them explaining the situation and they immediately apologised and sent a completely new order free of charge to me DHL. A week later the Singapore Post shipment showed up. I wrote them an email in a panic. Do you want me to send them back? I cannot guarantee when you'll get it, or if you'll get it but I'm happy to send them back. They told me to not worry and consider it a gift, we've written off a lot already and foresee doing so for a while, we've stopped using Singapore post.
Those solid silver core extensions that they sell. They can only take a few bends before the Silver, solid core AG solid core wires snap. It is physically possible to repair them and I did a few times. you need heat-clips, another "Female" socket and steady hands to re-strip the wires, all the while making each wire the same length and doing this for all 8 wires per socket.
I've heard the Burson's sound fantastic in their own products, and on some peoples mods. They use testimonials as their primary advertising for people who roll op-amps. Sparkos Labs does not. In fact, when I phoned them they they referred to Burson as those guys when I was asking about Sparkos consumer grade vs Burson. Sparkos spends a fraction on their website design, but I believe their products are far and above superior. Plus they're being used by some rather big names in the hi-fi industry whereas Burson is either used by the DIY'er (zero shame in that, I was one), and also they are priced to be far more consumer friendly.
Final word on discrete op-amps. Beware of those Ali-Express "discrete" op-amps. You do not know what you're getting. Amazon sells them both in the USA, and in Japan. I would never believe the specs they provide as there is almost no way of measuring those tiny components for tolerance. Is it a 20% part for the DSM cap, or is it a below 5% part? (hopefully it's 2.5% or better) static measurements with only a dummy load for accurate measurements).
My firm belief is that the A0200 is a bargain, leave it along. There are better ways to spend your money.
Full disclaimer, I am not trashing Burson. I just decided to stop using them. And yes, they are tall in small/compact amplifiers!
Hello.
Did anyone find any specs on the DAC inside the AO200?
Is there a DAC inside? Ou there is none, like in the VMV A2?
If there is a dac, which one?
Does the fact that it is a Type A input represent a disadvantage versus a type B input?
Did anyone use the USB input? Will it work with high res 24 bit / 192 khz?
Thank you very much.
João
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
@JoaoPedro
I will get to your question after what I found with my own ears.
The built in DAC sounds as good as a well mastered CD does, full-stop or period (depending on your English) I say full-stop because I am English by birth and raised there for my childhood.
I highly doubt you will be left wanting for more, unless you are addicted to DSD, a format that has limited releases and usually upsampled from SACD.
I connected mine for a few minutes after reading one user who had somehow received a unit that had the left and right channels reversed. Mine was fine for channel connection but then I was immediately taken aback by the sound quality. I have an RME ADI-2 DAC fs and yes, it up-samples amongst other things including DSD but I was NOT left wanting for more with the built in DAC. In a pinch, it will do more than fine. It will do very well indeed.
I believe that it is CD quality, or maybe just a tad bit higher at 48khz, 16bit. I think it depends on your settings on your computer.
It will not do 192/24bit.
It's really quite good sounding!
I will get to your question after what I found with my own ears.
The built in DAC sounds as good as a well mastered CD does, full-stop or period (depending on your English) I say full-stop because I am English by birth and raised there for my childhood.
I highly doubt you will be left wanting for more, unless you are addicted to DSD, a format that has limited releases and usually upsampled from SACD.
I connected mine for a few minutes after reading one user who had somehow received a unit that had the left and right channels reversed. Mine was fine for channel connection but then I was immediately taken aback by the sound quality. I have an RME ADI-2 DAC fs and yes, it up-samples amongst other things including DSD but I was NOT left wanting for more with the built in DAC. In a pinch, it will do more than fine. It will do very well indeed.
I believe that it is CD quality, or maybe just a tad bit higher at 48khz, 16bit. I think it depends on your settings on your computer.
It will not do 192/24bit.
It's really quite good sounding!
If I read that earlier post correctly, his channels were not reversed as far as actual audio output. What was reversed were the L/R volume level sliders under the DAC control panel on the PC.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Well he/she has a more powerful sound card than mine! I don't use the internal sound card on my PC unless it's an absolute emergency.
I thought it might be something like that though. It's awfully rare to accidently miswire a usb connection since I'm sure they buy them from a 2nd/3rd party and are probably idiot proofed or colour coded.
Either way, I'm glad his/her situation was sorted. I actually sent mine back to Aoshida Japan for a replacement so it actually reads Bluetooth when I select it, not that I ever do, but I'm thinking way down the road when I go to sell it. A first gen with misspelling will do poorly for resale.
I just hope that I can get a unit that is as noise free as my first unit was. That thing was dead quiet!
I'm one of the many happy SMSL owners, I loved the DA-9 while I had it but once the A0200 came along, the DA-9 went away within a few days. I just didn't see the need for two near identical amplifiers with one being noticeably quieter, fuller, and trouble free.
They will have a DAC coming out soon! Not that I will get one, I doubt highly that it'll out perform my RME, but it's nice that they are filling up the holes in their product lineup. I might consider another SMSL Aoshida product if they make something that is unique and something that fits in my small rack. I've got just over 2" in height between the acrylic sheets and it has 3 shelves. All occupied but if something cool comes along, something will make way!
Thanks for letting me know. I don't read every single response/reply to any thread though I try to stay on top of it!
Cheers, Happy listening!
I read his post and tested the AO200 many times with two Windows 10 PCs and a USB connection, but the R-Lch was fine.
The problem is that the letters L-R are reversed in the balance adjustment of Windows 10. I explained to him that this is a Windows 10 bug and has nothing to do with the AO200.
Are you sure it has nothing to do with AO200? Have you tested these Win 10 L/R sliders with another DAC?
The L/R sliders are not reversed in my Win 10, using Loxjie D30 DAC.
jokan,
As I read the specs, AptX is not lossless. AptXHD is lossless.
Here's a comparison, scroll down for the specs: https://www.aptx.com/aptx VS https://www.aptx.com/aptx
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
@d'Brit
I hate to burst your bubble
I'll dig up the press release.
AptX Lossless has just been announced with products that support it to be released next year sometime, eta unknown (officially).
Here's the link.
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...th-lossless-audio-technology-snapdragon-sound
I am not trying to be "I know more than you". I am just doing my best to get the true information straight from the horses mouth to the public.
The question is will there be an over the air update? I highly doubt it but it is possible.
I think we'll have to wait and see, meanwhile, I suppose it's an apology to Apple owners as Qualcomm and Apple do not get on.
I hate to burst your bubble
I'll dig up the press release.
AptX Lossless has just been announced with products that support it to be released next year sometime, eta unknown (officially).
Here's the link.
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...th-lossless-audio-technology-snapdragon-sound
I am not trying to be "I know more than you". I am just doing my best to get the true information straight from the horses mouth to the public.
The question is will there be an over the air update? I highly doubt it but it is possible.
I think we'll have to wait and see, meanwhile, I suppose it's an apology to Apple owners as Qualcomm and Apple do not get on.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I use Windows 10 64bit Home, and have Alienware Dell X51 R2 for a pc, did not encounter any problems. Maybe it his DAC allows polarity switching like my RME does, that might explain it? I hope that his/her problem is resolved nonetheless. Also RME has Crossfeed, maybe other DAC's offer the same sort of feature? Unless the codec's are somehow setup incorrectly which I suspect is easy to do by mistake.
jokan,
I don't think you're trying to be a know it all. So is it that AptX is lossless but provides a lower bit rate as the specs show?
AptX - 384 kbps (48 kHz sampling) VS AptXHD - 576 Kbits (48 kHz sampling)
Is a 384 kbps rate sufficient since MP3's best at 320kbps is lossy?
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
It can go up to bit-perfect depending entirely on the environment.
Yes, I am a lossless freak. I am 44 years of age going on 60! I prefer a mint reel-reel that has been well taken care of over digital download. There are subsonics in old analogue recordings and literally, the sky is the limit to a record.
Back to your critical question, much in a similar way to LDAC which I do not believe is lossless at all since it chops up sound into tiny, ever smaller bits of data, if your connection is bad, it will progressively go lower and lower bandwidth. I think this is ok, for lets say flying on an aeroplane and you have active noise cancelling fully engaged. I have the WH-XM10003's and 4's. (I might have the actual model number wrong, but the over head ANC headphones) I live in Tokyo, I am extremely sensitive to metal on metal noises so I literally have very difficult time going outside. Hence it is 3:12in the AM, Thursday morning right now.
LDAC reduces the quality and bit rate as more interference takes place, this appears to be similar to what the new AptX Lossless will do.
I hope the Mods don't mind but there is a very comprehensive video by John Darko on Youtube which I will link as he covers all of the pertinent questions.
Sorry mods if this content isn't allowed.
Link:
Description:
CD-quality BLUETOOTH streaming is COMING SOON (via aptX LOSSLESS)
I am no authority but I am a fan of lossless. Dislike MQA, DSD, SACD. I prefer a high quality master and recording even on CD over an inferior quality master. I have many first edition CD's and recently went back and played them through my RME DAC paying close attention to the MAX levels. The modern, or current CD is 6db-9db louder than the first edition of many, many CD's in my collection. Guess what, the older CD's actually have something called Crescendo! There are peaks and valleys to the recording. I blame Radio for starting the loudness wars. Once people became used to it then it was a little bit too late. Then we have the proliferation of those plastic tube things that are bluetooth speakers with active EQ in some cases, compression (not the good kind but to keep the loudness so high that a quiet passage and a loud passage sounds near identical). So that is my honest opinion about lossless. I am happy that Qualcomm is announcing this new format, I don't know how it's going to work. But that video explains things far better. He's a bit strange, but so am I! So I generally like what he has to say. I dislike his taste in electronica and EDM, but that's ok. Not everybody can listen to the Floyd on loop, or Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac on loop, pre Stevie Nicks! ( I like her too but in a different way).
I hope that goes some way to helping you make sense of this newly announced tech. Will we need new headphones, probably. Will we need new mobiles? maybe. We simply do not know.
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