Rupert Neve RNHP Headphone Amp Review

[mokoaguswan]

How do you know that its beats some amp 4-5x price? Have you experienced it yourself? If not, can you link me your source?

I'm speaking in a subjective point of view in a headphone meet/canjam type setup. I have of course experienced it myself.

 

[nhatlam96]

I'm speaking in a subjective point of view in a headphone meet/canjam type setup. I have of course experienced it myself.

I believe you, take a look at this post. Multiple people described the RNHP as better sounding than SMSL SP200 and would pair it with the Focal Clear.
The RNHP doesn't measure well, but it somehow sounds incredibly good for many people. However, I'm surprised about amir's conclusion and listening test: 1. what impedance should the headphone atleast have for the RNHP? People are pairing it with a 55 ohm Focal Clear and love it, is 55 ohm already considered high impedance? 2. Amir compared it with the DX3 Pro, saying it costs half as much and would drive the HD650 as well, but does the DX3 Pro sound as good as the RNHP? People on this forum consistently prefer the RNHP over the SMSL SP200, it somehow sounds richer than the perfectly measured THX unit. 3. Maybe measurement can't tell us the full story about the sound of an amp?

 

[JohnYang1997]

I believe you, take a look at this post. Multiple people described the RNHP as better sounding than SMSL SP200 and would pair it with the Focal Clear.
The RNHP doesn't measure well, but it somehow sounds incredibly good for many people. However, I'm surprised about amir's conclusion and listening test: 1. what impedance should the headphone atleast have for the RNHP? People are pairing it with a 55 ohm Focal Clear and love it, is 55 ohm already considered high impedance? 2. Amir compared it with the DX3 Pro, saying it costs half as much and would drive the HD650 as well, but does the DX3 Pro sound as good as the RNHP? People on this forum consistently prefer the RNHP over the SMSL SP200, it somehow sounds richer than the perfectly measured THX unit. 3. Maybe measurement can't tell us the full story about the sound of an amp?

55 Ohm is mid to low-ish impedance.
People listen with their eyes not ears. That's that.
DX3pro V2's phone out is almost the same as RNHP. SP200 should have much lower harmonics. Doubt their hearing and rigorousness of the tests rather than measurements.

 

[solderdude]

The RNHP doesn't measure well, but it somehow sounds incredibly good for many people. ... 3. Maybe measurement can't tell us the full story about the sound of an amp?

The RNHP amp can be considered acoustically transparent for all intends and purposes. It can supply enough power to low and high impedance headphones. The 'sounds better/richer/fuller' is just biased nonsense. Pretty sure no one can reliably AB these properly.
One does not need super high output powers (but could be beneficial for certain headphones/applications).
One does not need distortion below 0.01% as with music one cannot hear this.
Increasingly better specs is fun for number lovers and manufacturers to show how low they can go. It is not of any importance for enjoying music.
Amps are not rocket science and everything about it can be measured and is easily properly AB'ed (level matched, blind, equal conditions, statistical relevant tests).
The clear is a very good sounding headphone. SQ comes from the headphone. Not the amp despite multiple people claiming this.

You will get similar reports from other brand's fanboys.

 

[nhatlam96]

55 Ohm is mid to low-ish impedance.
People listen with their eyes not ears. That's that.
DX3pro V2's phone out is almost the same as RNHP. SP200 should have much lower harmonics. Doubt their hearing and rigorousness of the tests rather than measurements.

I understand the story when it comes to DACs: Even a humble semi-modern smartphone DAC is audibly very good and is unlikely a bottleneck. So a DAC doesn't have to measure like a Topping E30 to sound good for a system.
I don't know if the same rules applies for AMPs. That's why I'm wondering: Isn't the character of an amp actually more important than the measurement? When it comes to distortion or harmonics, I think a semi-modern amp is doing fine plenty.
EDIT: I posted this before reading solderdude post.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I understand the story when it comes to DACs: Even a humble semi-modern smartphone DAC is audibly very good and is unlikely a bottleneck. So a DAC doesn't have to measure like a Topping E30 to sound good for a system.
I don't know if the same rules applies for AMPs. That's why I'm wondering: Isn't the character of an amp actually more important than the measurement? When it comes to distortion or harmonics, I think a semi-modern amp is doing fine plenty.

If there's no running out of power, amps with good enough measurements should sound pretty much identical.

 

[mokoaguswan]

The RNHP amp can be considered acoustically transparent for all intends and purposes. It can supply enough power to low and high impedance headphones. The 'sounds better/richer/fuller' is just biased nonsense. Pretty sure no one can reliably AB these properly.
One does not need super high output powers (but could be beneficial for certain headphones/applications).
One does not need distortion below 0.01% as with music one cannot hear this.
Increasingly better specs is fun for number lovers and manufacturers to show how low they can go. It is not of any importance for enjoying music.
Amps are not rocket science and everything about it can be measured and is easily properly AB'ed (level matched, blind, equal conditions, statistical relevant tests).
The clear is a very good sounding headphone. SQ comes from the headphone. Not the amp despite multiple people claiming this.

You will get similar reports from other brand's fanboys.

I've AB'ed the RNHP easily compared to my other amps. Honestly, I don't consider it acoustically transparent. It smoothens the high frequency in a good way (good for brighter headphones -grado/sony) but didn't work out well with Neumann NDH20 and LCD4 (that I use). I use headphones primarily to monitor. As for the claim of sounding 'richer/fuller', I hear the bump in the low mids more than the little labs monotor.

 

[mokoaguswan]

If there's no running out of power, amps with good enough measurements should sound pretty much identical.

I'm here to learn.

What about linearity of listening level?

Certain monitoring chains (active/passive monitors & headphones+amps) sounds good at certain level but didn't sound linear at lower levels.

Most of the time I read in the test is that it is being tested for playing loud before it distorts.

I know there if a fletcher munson curves. Some monitors that I hear are really good at all listening levels (ATC is superb at this). Some only sounded linear at higher SPLs.

 

[solderdude]

I've AB'ed the RNHP easily compared to my other amps. Honestly, I don't consider it acoustically transparent. It smoothens the high frequency in a good way (good for brighter headphones -grado/sony) but didn't work out well with Neumann NDH20 and LCD4 (that I use). I use headphones primarily to monitor. As for the claim of sounding 'richer/fuller', I hear the bump in the low mids more than the little labs monotor.

Where/how would treble be smoothed ? what 'bump' in the low mids ?

I am quite certain your comparisons were sighted, not statistically relevant nor level matched within 0.1dB.
If they were you could make a fortune demonstrating your abilities to Amir.

Please don't tell me ... you can't measure everything ... or .. ears can hear more than measurements.

 

[mokoaguswan]

Where/how would treble be smoothed ? what 'bump' in the low mids ?

I am quite certain your comparisons were sighted, not statistically relevant nor level matched within 0.1dB.
If they were you could make a fortune demonstrating your abilities to Amir.

I can never argue with measurements like that.
I am not certain how you could think that my comparisons were sighted while you were not there to witness it.

 

[solderdude]

Because of your findings. These all point to you knowing what amp you were using or amps not being level matched.

When you would test 'blind' (not knowing what amp the headphone is plugged in) and level matched (within 0.1dB is not so easy to do without accurate measurements) and statistically relevant attempts (say 15 to 20) I am willing to bet you can't tell it apart from say .. a Magni Heresy or Atom.
Even using low impedance headphones distortion levels remain well below audibility levels using music.

When you can, you can make a quick buck by contacting Amir.

 

[mokoaguswan]

I've participated in a few blind test.

One as a student by Sean Olive at Harman R&D Lab in a Critical Listening class. I am not sure if it was matched within 0.1 dB. We were listening to different bookshelf speakers. Blind ABX test.


I'm not sure how you could affirm my blind test by my findings. Please confirm this.

 

[solderdude]

Blind testing speakers (or headphones, or even vinyl cartridges) is not the same as headphone amplifiers. It is very do-able and reliably so, certainly when the differences are big enough. In speakers and headphones (without EQ) they usually are.

I am pretty confident that your assessment of the RNHP amp has been sighted, not level matched and with no statistical relevance.
Otherwise it would have been impossible to tell this amp apart from other decent amplifiers.

Can you honestly tell us that while assessing the RNHP you did not know your headphone was plugged into it ?
How did you manage to level match the 2 amps (under load) within 0.1dB and how did you go about this ?

If you knew what amp was playing and compared amps were not level matched and switched between them your experiences are merely anecdotal.
That is fine for you and probably enough for you and many others but over here it has no weight. It is just your opinion (and those of others that compared amps this way) based on your/their findings.

 

[mokoaguswan]

I salute you for your confidence Solderdude.

Thank you for educating me on the blind testing for headphone amps.

How would you statistically consider the relevance of decent amp in comparison to this amp?By which specification? Would you be able to characterize how an amp sound with all the statistical information?

I am not equipped to do a 0.1 dB testing with measurement to print at where I'm using the amp.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I can gain match the input to the amps that I need to use. To match the output to the headphone though, I would need a calibrated measurement like this https://www.ap.com/analyzers-accessories/accessories/aecm206/.
Or is there an easier way to match 0.1 dB testing with headphones?

 

[solderdude]

A simple voltmeter with a 200mV AC setting would be sufficient. 1% variation = 0.09dB, 0.1% = 0.009dB
They do not even have to be calibrated (display the correct voltage) as this is used to compare to signals.
Such meters can be had from $ 25.- and upwards.
You cannot use the cheapies with lowest settings like 200V AC.
Also you would need a splitter cable so you can measure the headphone output while under an actual load in case one of the amps has a relatively high output resistance.
Another way is to use a soundcard and some (free) software.
Nothing high tech is needed for this.

You can easily characterize how an amp sounds by looking at some basic frequency, distortion and time measurements under load.
The only thing is that this does not have is any relation to how people feels an amplifier 'sounds' in subjective conditions (not level matched, and 'sighted' as well as statistically significant amount of trials)

 

[mokoaguswan]

Thank you Solderdude.

So, if I feel and described how an amplifier sounded like in a subjective point of view, I would always be considered wrong if it does not match the mesurements or the frequency response?

 

[mokoaguswan]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

If I look at measurements and describe how it sounded, won't this fall into "looking by hearing rather than listening?"

 

[solderdude]

So, if I feel and described how an amplifier sounded like in a subjective point of view, I would always be considered wrong if it does not match the mesurements or the frequency response?

At ASR you would most likely be asked if you did the comparison level matched, blind (not knowing which amp is used) and how many times you did the test and if it was for your own education only or has to serve as evidence.
In the last case documentation of the test and test results will be scrutinized.

Another possibility is that some folks just reply with: Uh-huh.

In most other audio forums/websites you would simply be taken at your word, most of them don't 'believe' in measurements and instead believe the auditory system of the tester is far superior and is able to not be biased.

 

[solderdude]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

If I look at measurements and describe how it sounded, won't this fall into "looking by hearing rather than listening?"

When one is looking at measurements of course they would be looking (using eyes) rather than listening but not be looking by hearing as one cannot see with the auditory system.... well.... some blind people may be sort of exempt.

If you look at measurements and can describe how it sounds you could either be quite knowledgeable, clueless or anything in between.

 

[mokoaguswan]

Respectfully appreciate this.