No hifiberry is only two channel. For four Channel you need usb or hdmi output.
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RPi4 + CamillaDSP Tutorial
- Thread starter mdsimon2
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #602
I do have a DAC+ DSP but have not spent much time with it. In general the DAC+ DSP is a poor fit for this tutorial and CamillaDSP.
I believe you can setup the DAC+ DSP to have separate processing on the analog outputs and optical outputs but you will need to do this in sigma studio. The mixer and any individual output filtering will need to be done on the DAC+DSP, as CamillaDSP will only see two output channels.
As mentioned by @MarcosCh Moode really doesn't support external inputs at the moment. There are hacky ways to work around it but it won't be a polished solution (search this thread for Moode to see this discussion). You will not want to use Ubuntu as is done in this tutorial as it does not support RPi.GPIO which is required for dsptoolkit, you could probably use diet pi or raspberry pi OS but you would be on your own.
Michael
I don't want an overly complicated setup. The Motu M4 has 4 outputs but a lot of functions I don't need. The best device for my use case would be the MiniDSP flex with it's only downside being the price.
If there are some good measuring inexpensive 4 channel DACs or HATs let me know
Yes there are plenty depending on your definition of "good measuring", and even working with moode:I don't want an overly complicated setup. The Motu M4 has 4 outputs but a lot of functions I don't need. The best device for my use case would be the MiniDSP flex with it's only downside being the price.
If there are some good measuring inexpensive 4 channel DACs or HATs let me know
Thread 'Dummy to dummy multichannel DSP on the ultra cheap instructions' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...el-dsp-on-the-ultra-cheap-instructions.30660/
Thanks. This was basically what I was looking for.
I have one question about those 4 channel audiointerfaces like the Motu M4 or a Focusrite 4i4:
Does the volume knob of the interface let you adjust all 4 outputs or do I have to adjust volume only in moOde/ CamillaDSP.
I like having a physical knob to quickly turn down volume if stuff gets loud
The motu knob adjusts only 2 of the 4 channels. The Focusrite no idea.
If you build the flirc remote control as per this tutorial you can overcome this limitation, as it changes the master volume in camilladsp
Just looked it up. Focusrite only adjusts 2 channels as well. Interfaces don't really need 4 channel volume control so other options will probably be similar.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #608
There are a few that do but they are bigger / more expensive. Focusrite 18i20 can control all 10 analog outputs from the knob but it has rather poor performance as a DAC. It does have SPDIF output so you could use it with a separate DAC. Ultralite Mk5 has good DAC performance and also has a knob that can control all 10 analog outputs but is expensive and has more I/O than you need. Of course the Okto and Topping DM7 have IR volume control of all channels.
It is really hard to beat the Flex for a 4 channel setup. You could probably get close with one of the cheaper options (used Xonar U7) that @MarcosCh mentioned that has analog and SPDIF outputs and use an existing DAC. I think it is worth pursuing the FLIRC IR receiver and OLED display discussed in this thread if you aren't using the Okto or DM7 but that adds cost and complexity. However, once you have the RPi4 / case / IR receiver / display setup then switching to a new DAC is very easy if you decided to do so down the line.
Michael
Thanks, I'll read through that thread. I already have a flirc too
I now tested CamillaDSP on Volumio as well. Always spits out errors without any filters applied.
The main problem with moOde and Volumio is that you can't really use DSP with Airplay.
It initially works but it's super buggy and crashes after switching back to local file playback.
I don't have many local files so I use airplay alot. If all those players are that buggy when using DSP and Airplay I'll probably be better off with getting a MiniDSP instead of fiddleing around with CamillaDSP
The main problem with moOde and Volumio is that you can't really use DSP with Airplay.
It initially works but it's super buggy and crashes after switching back to local file playback.
I don't have many local files so I use airplay alot. If all those players are that buggy when using DSP and Airplay I'll probably be better off with getting a MiniDSP instead of fiddleing around with CamillaDSP
OP
- Thread Starter
- #612
Kind of odd that Moode and Volume won't apply DSP with Airplay but in general I don't like audio operating systems as they always seem a bit buggy and restricted to me. What sort of errors are you getting?
In my Ultralite Mk5 based office setup I do the majority of listening using Airplay (shairport-sync) to a RPi 4 running Ubuntu and it works great. In my Okto dac8 pro main setup I also do the majority of my listening using Airplay but to an AppleTV 4K. Both setups work great with CamillaDSP.
For local files I have a separate RPi 4 connected to a USB SSD that I can stream to either setup losslessly via LMS / squeezelite. I also use this separate RPi to digitize my turntable via a Hifiberry DAC+ ADC pro and stream to either setup.
Michael
In my Ultralite Mk5 based office setup I do the majority of listening using Airplay (shairport-sync) to a RPi 4 running Ubuntu and it works great. In my Okto dac8 pro main setup I also do the majority of my listening using Airplay but to an AppleTV 4K. Both setups work great with CamillaDSP.
For local files I have a separate RPi 4 connected to a USB SSD that I can stream to either setup losslessly via LMS / squeezelite. I also use this separate RPi to digitize my turntable via a Hifiberry DAC+ ADC pro and stream to either setup.
Michael
In MoOde CamillaDSP works fine with local music. I can switch to Airplay and it works too but when switching back to local playback it will just not play anything and be kind of stuck.
In Volumio the same occurs when using FusionDSP. I can also access camillaDSP through FusionDSP but when I want to apply the DSP I always get:
‘“devices”, “capture”], "Additional properties are not allowed (‘retry_on_error’, ‘avoid_blocking_read’ were unexpected’
and 'config has errors'.
So in summary:
-switching between Airplay and local music works fine on MoOde and Volumio with NO dsp applied
-when using any DSP on both OS (camilla or fusion or the simple build in dsp in moOde), switching between Airplay and local music will stuck the system that I can't play anything and I have to restart
-camillaDSP works perfectly with local files on MoOde
-camillaDSP won't work on Volumio
OP
- Thread Starter
- #614
Don't have the answer but obviously you do not have a working config on FusionDSP so would need to work some troubleshooting with increased verbosity in the CamillaDSP log if you want to fix it.
For moode and airplay I wonder if it is a port related issue. By default the CamillaDSP GUI and shairport-sync both use port 5000, in my ubuntu implementation I change the shairport-sync port to 6000 to fix this. Might be worth locating shairport-sync.conf by running sudo find / -name "shairport-sync.conf" to see what the port is set to. Otherwise probably best to work with the moode folks on troubleshooting.
Michael
I now tried to install CamillaDSP on an Ubuntu server for better stability but it can't install the GUI.
I don't work with linux that often so I might miss some obvious things.
I unpacked everything but it somehow can't open it
I don't work with linux that often so I might miss some obvious things.
I unpacked everything but it somehow can't open it
OP
- Thread Starter
- #616
It looks like you downloaded camillagui to /home but are looking for it /home/julian/camilladsp/.
I really need to upload the tutorial to get rid of as many directory changes as possible to make it more clear where things need to be downloaded / executed. I also think I have some unnecessary directory changes that may have led you astray.
Michael
Yes you’re right.
I agree that there are some unnecessary changes but your guide still helps a lot. Thanks!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #618
Updated the tutorial to get rid of all directory changes and did a clean install and everything seemed to work well regardless of what directory I was in.
Sorry about that, I had started to clean some of this up but that clashed with the old instructions, oh well, should be good now.
Michael
Blew
Active Member
I've been experimenting with CamillaDSP (1.0.1) on a Pi4 using a MOTU M4 (with latest firmware) for USB output. I'm using 64-bit Raspberry Pi OS and compiled the latest kernel (5.19) for it, but have otherwise mostly followed the tutorial here. Thanks @mdsimon2 for your effort in putting this together.
I primarily intend to use Squeezelite to stream to the Pi4 from my LMS server, but would also like to use the analogue inputs on the MOTU for a record player and eventually like to add other inputs such as a S/PDIF interface for a CD player. My aim is to use the system as a streamer with DSP for room EQ and to do the crossover between stereo speakers and a pair of subwoofers while achieving the highest audio quality possible. I haven't implemented any EQ filters yet.
As I've been going I've run into a number of questions and issues about CamillaDSP, the MOTU M4, and DSP in general that I would like to get to the bottom of, and wonder if anyone here knows the answers or knows where to find them. Any information or advice would be much appreciated.
I primarily intend to use Squeezelite to stream to the Pi4 from my LMS server, but would also like to use the analogue inputs on the MOTU for a record player and eventually like to add other inputs such as a S/PDIF interface for a CD player. My aim is to use the system as a streamer with DSP for room EQ and to do the crossover between stereo speakers and a pair of subwoofers while achieving the highest audio quality possible. I haven't implemented any EQ filters yet.
As I've been going I've run into a number of questions and issues about CamillaDSP, the MOTU M4, and DSP in general that I would like to get to the bottom of, and wonder if anyone here knows the answers or knows where to find them. Any information or advice would be much appreciated.
- When I try to use "hw:M4" (or any equivalent) for bit perfect output to the M4 without ALSA resampling it I get no audio output and get this error in the Squeezelite log:
[18:22:12.718934] alsa_open:465 channel count not available: Invalid argument. This appears to be the case for any ALSA audio tool such as aplay or Squeezelite itself. I have to use "plughw:M4", which uses poor sounding resampling via ALSA itself. The exception to this is when CamillaDSP is configured to use hw:M4 as the playback device. Obviously this is what I want to do anyway, but would like to be able to test and compare audio output directly from audio player to M4 without using CamillaDSP. The direct output works in CamillaDSP regardless of whether I enable resampling or not.- Is this because CamillaDSP is mixing the source stereo channels and outputting to all four channels of the M4, or because it's increasing the bit depth from 16 or 24 bits to 32?
- Is this expected behaviour for the M4 when using ALSA? It works fine when using WASAPI Windows and Coreaudio in OSX. I haven't tried Jack or Pulse etc. This was the case for the stock kernel and also when I tested Ubuntu 22.04 on it. It's the main reason why I tried updating the kernel to 5.19.
- I am quite inexperienced with EQ in general, but as I understand it you need a higher bit depth when using DSP for EQ and not necessarily a higher bit rate. If that's the case then is it ideal, audio quality wise, to maintain the original sample rate without resampling when using DSP, and only increase the bit rate then let the DAC do its own internal upsampling?
- Will CamillaDSP 1.1 enable the capture of multiple sample rates without requiring resampling to a consistent sampling rate prior to capture? From reading this thread it seems that gadget mode will enable this when using an external audio interface but I'm not sure whether this will be the case for the ALSA loopback interface with Squeezelite etc.
- Will CamillaDSP 1.1 enable the automatic resampling to integer multiples of the source sample rate? Eg 44.1KHz to 88.2KHz or 176.4KHz.
- Does resampling to non-integer multiples like 44.1KHz to 96KHz or 192KHz increase the aliasing artefacts and thus noise from resampling?
- The tutorial uses 96KHz sample rate for resampling. Would 192KHz be a better option given the processing power of the Pi4? This is related to the question above.
- Does the M4 do any internal upsampling of its own?
- The MOTU M4 config file in this tutorial is configured to use asynchronous resampling, but I've read that synchronous is better if possible. Should I use synchronous with the M4?
- The logfile says:
2022-08-17 06:45:13.765307 WARN [src/alsadevice.rs:592] Async resampler not needed since capture device supports rate adjust. Switch to Sync type to save CPU time. - When I've tested synchronous resampling the CPU consumption is about 5% lower than BalancedAsync.
- The logfile says:
- Would it be better to do any necessary resampling in Squeezelite (which uses Sox) prior to output to the loopback interface and leave CamillaDSP resampling off?
- The CamillaDSP logfile says:
2022-08-17 06:45:13.765231 INFO [src/alsadevice.rs:588] Capture device supports rate adjust. Does this mean that I should turn it off rate adjust in CamillaDSP and let the M4 handle it? - I'm getting some annoying popping/clicking when playing audio. This appears to be regardless of any combination of prior resampling or not with Squeezelite, outputting directly to the loopback interface using aplay, turning rate adjust on or off, configuring synchronous/asynchronous/no resampling in CamillaDSP, and increasing chunk size in CamillaDSP. I've previously seen this on the Topping E50 when using an inadequate power supply. Could this be due to inadequate power output from the Pi4 to the M4? The Pi4 is supposed to output 1.2A max on the USB ports and the M4 is supposed to only require 500mA. I'm using the official Raspberry Pi USB-C power supply that outputs 3.0A, which should be plenty. Otherwise, would an OTG adapter help?
Last edited:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #620
1. Can you share your configuration file? I imagine you do not have 4 channels specified under "playback" in your CamillaDSP configuration. Or you are not using the correct S32LE format.
2. I mention my rational for running at 96 kHz in the tutorial:
This post -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/minidsp-flex.28660/post-1037905, shows a comparison of high frequency warping for 48 kHz and 96 kHz sample rates. Not a huge difference but given the RPi4 has plenty of power to run at 96 kHz and avoid warping in the audible frequency range, why not? I haven't tested it extensively but all of the CamillaDSP resampling options seem very high quality and will be nowhere close to limiting from an audibility standpoint.
3. Yes, gadget mode using gaudio_ctl will automatically switch rates. There is a way to switch rates with a loopback as well -> https://github.com/scripple/alsa_cdsp. I do not use either of these approaches because they make it difficult to modify / change configurations in the GUI. I do not believe there are any concrete plans to change rate changing behavior within CamillaDSP itself but I could be wrong.
4. No, Henrik has indicated the resampler needs to restart if there are large changes in sample rate. See this post and subsequent discussion for more info -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/rpi4-camilladsp-tutorial.29656/post-1195832.
5. I haven't seen anything noticeable, it doesn't affect 1 kHz or multitone test results at the DAC output. I could do some more testing to evaluate but everything I've seen so far indicates that it would be wasted effort to do so. You can read more about the technical aspects of asynchronous sample rate conversion here -> https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/asynchronous-sample-rate-conversion.28814/v.
6. High frequency warping is only an issue if you are applying DSP near the Nyquist frequency. 96 kHz solves this for any EQ in the audible range (20-20K) so I see no advantage to using 192 kHz as it is a waste of resources.
7. I do not know anything about the specific implementation of the M4 but in general ES90XX DACs are oversampling DACs.
8. Yes, for loopback configurations or configurations where your capture and playback device share a clock you can use synchronous. I've been meaning to update the configurations in the tutorial to reflect. Asynchronous is only required if you have your capture and playback devices have two different clocks.
9. I don't think it will be audibly any different. The reason I resample in squeezelite to 44.1 kHz is so that I can switch between shairport-sync (which always runs at 44.1 kHz) and squeezelite without changing configurations. If you only use squeezelite I would consider implementing rate switching in CamillaDSP or just resample in squeezelite.
10. By capture device it means ALSA loopback, not the M4. You need rate adjust otherwise you will have buffer over / under runs. The only time rate adjust is not needed is if your capture and playback devices share the same clock.
11. I have not experienced any such issues on my M4 powered directly by my RPi4. Can you increase verbosity of your log (see tutorial) and share it for times of when these drop outs occur?
Michael
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