Rotel has something going on?

[dlaloum]

Funny, I've always considered Rotel to be a higher end brand than Denon/Marantz.. Rotel was founded as a family business and as far as I know, is still run by the same family. Their distribution network was facilitated by B&W in the 1980's prior to Sound United and the massive consolidation that took place thereafter. Yamaha, like Sony, has the ability to produce state of the art equipment basically whenever they feel like it, just depends on their goals for the product segment in any given year.

I consider Rotel to be the third leg of the Japanese holy trinity of hi-fi, with Luxman and Accuphase completing the triangle.

My introduction to Rotel was a 25W/channel Integrated amp - my first ever "new" component (oops sorry, no I bought a silver cassette deck before that!) in my teens.

It was one of the value choices for good performance at rock bottom pricing in the late 70's and early 80's - it competed with the classic NAD 3020....

When I upgraded to Revox and Quad gear... it got purchased by a friend ....

Hence my budget to mid-market perspective on Rotel!

 

[ban25]

I think the "Made in China" label doesn't really hit the same as it used to. Some of the best (on paper) performing gear in the world comes out of Shenzhen nowadays, including many ASR favorites. Rotel was ahead of the curve in moving their operation to Shenzen (2005) and owns the production process start to finish, including QA.

Darko did a nice write-up on the facility - https://darko.audio/2015/03/rotel-electronics-a-zhuhai-factory-tour/

And some of that gear Amir loves (*cough* *cough* Topping PA-5) has over a 50% failure rate here on ASR...

 

[ban25]

My Rotel gear (I had a 5 cd changer and tuner also from them) did not have anywhere near the fit and finish of Luxman or Accuphase. That said, in a blind test, I probably couldn’t have told the difference between them.

Indeed Accuphase is in another tier in terms of fit and finish and bling. Now, could I discern the difference between an Accuphase E-280 and my Rotel A14MKII in a blind test? I am confident I could not...

 

[mhardy6647]

Roland + Martel (US distributor) = Rotel

https://rotel.com/sites/default/files/RC-972,%20RB-981,%20RCD-951%20Absolute%20Sound.pdf

 

[tedh1979]

I noticed the last post is a bit old, but did anyone ever figure out the deal with Rotel's website? If I lookup a Rotel product it brings me to their page and shows the product. If I go on their website and want to look at surround processors, there's not even an option for that. I have a newer NAD T778 receiver and while the sound is way above anything I've ever heard, and the new tech is flashy, it's in the shop and it sounds like I'm not the only one. I own a pair of B&W 702 S2 speakers and I do use a 2 channel external amp on my fronts plus I have an 8 channel amp in my spare room so I can go the processor route vs receiver. I'm looking at the RSP-1576 or 1576MKII. I've heard a demo at a stereo shop of a Rotel and B&W sounding good but it wasn't as good as my NAD, granted this was years ago and in a different environment. I'm sure it could've been tuned to my liking. I'm looking for a brand with great sound that is also reliable and under $4000. I've owned Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, Yamaha, Sony ES and now NAD. Right now as I'm waiting for the NAD repair, I'm back on a Yamaha and it's horrible. The best sounding receiver I had besides the NAD was the newer line of Sony ES, but still not in the same league. I definitely don't want to jump on the Rotel bandwagon if the wagon is gone or leaving. Any updates or other brand suggestions?

 

[Chrispy]

For AV receivers I never considered Rotel particularly, and don't see but multich amps in the home theater section of their website now in any case. I'd stick to Denon/Marantz/Yamaha for the most part, Pionkyo I'd rather see how that bears out down the line before my faith in them is restored. I don't see much differences in avrs/pre-pros outside of their feature/dsp set particularly, tho. They are all generally competent, but a signature sound, no.

 

[tedh1979]

I’ve listened to all the brands you mentioned. I was told pre pros sound better than receivers but my newer NAD is all class D and it sounds amazing, it’s just junk, if that makes sense. None of the brands you mentioned come close to the NAD sound. I’d say Marantz was the closest. Rotel is still family owned but they’re basically ran by B&W and B&W is now owned by Sound United who owns basically everyone. They own Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Onkyo, Definitive Technology, Polk, Martin Logan and a bunch of others. They just bought Klipsch and then Klipsch bought Emotiva. Sony and Yamaha and Arcam are the only ones left. Searching this week it seems pre pros are a thing of the past. Marantz has a couple that are ridiculous prices. Rotel has 1. Emotiva has a few but online reviews say they don’t sound good so I’m not going to bother. Arcam is too expensive and their reliability is no better than NAD. Arcams sound cold too. Seems Sound United is pushing everyone in a different direction. My NAD receiver has amazing designs that aren’t in other brands and they’re owned by Lynnbrook. But again, reliability……. I don’t know what to do. I’ll probably buy a Rotel even though I’d lose so many features. I’d just like to know if Rotel is going to stick around with future pre pros.

 

[Chrispy]

I’ve listened to all the brands you mentioned. I was told pre pros sound better than receivers but my newer NAD is all class D and it sounds amazing, it’s just junk, if that makes sense. None of the brands you mentioned come close to the NAD sound. I’d say Marantz was the closest. Rotel is still family owned but they’re basically ran by B&W and B&W is now owned by Sound United who owns basically everyone. They own Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Onkyo, Definitive Technology, Polk, Martin Logan and a bunch of others. They just bought Klipsch and then Klipsch bought Emotiva. Sony and Yamaha and Arcam are the only ones left. Searching this week it seems pre pros are a thing of the past. Marantz has a couple that are ridiculous prices. Rotel has 1. Emotiva has a few but online reviews say they don’t sound good so I’m not going to bother. Arcam is too expensive and their reliability is no better than NAD. Arcams sound cold too. Seems Sound United is pushing everyone in a different direction. My NAD receiver has amazing designs that aren’t in other brands and they’re owned by Lynnbrook. But again, reliability……. I don’t know what to do. I’ll probably buy a Rotel even though I’d lose so many features. I’d just like to know if Rotel is going to stick around with future pre pros.

Masimo now owns the former Sound United group of brands. As to who "tells you" about brands, meh.

 

[tedh1979]

Wow I didn’t know that but I’m not surprised. Sound United gobbled up struggling brands especially during the financial collapse of 2008. Most of those brands they’ve killed off or messed up. Honestly though, good stereo equipment has to be in small quantities. I only know one person with a receiver and he has an entry level one. Home audio/theater is great but it’s not that popular. Sound bars and earbuds and Bluetooth speakers are the thing which is sad. I’ve owned a couple newer Sony ES models and they’re amazing but they don’t market their stuff well. Harman owns Arcam and they’re innovative but have reliability issues like NAD. Maybe Mosimo might revive the industry. I also don’t think people are as picky as me. They hear a Denon entry level and it’s sounds better than their car stereo so they buy it.

 

[Chrispy]

Wow I didn’t know that but I’m not surprised. Sound United gobbled up struggling brands especially during the financial collapse of 2008. Most of those brands they’ve killed off or messed up. Honestly though, good stereo equipment has to be in small quantities. I only know one person with a receiver and he has an entry level one. Home audio/theater is great but it’s not that popular. Sound bars and earbuds and Bluetooth speakers are the thing which is sad. I’ve owned a couple newer Sony ES models and they’re amazing but they don’t market their stuff well. Harman owns Arcam and they’re innovative but have reliability issues like NAD. Maybe Mosimo might revive the industry. I also don’t think people are as picky as me. They hear a Denon entry level and it’s sounds better than their car stereo so they buy it.

Much of the genre about brand worship and subjective only reviews are on the way out? Good stereo equipment has never been more accessible or affordable, wtf are you on?

 

[dlaloum]

I’ve listened to all the brands you mentioned. I was told pre pros sound better than receivers but my newer NAD is all class D and it sounds amazing, it’s just junk, if that makes sense. None of the brands you mentioned come close to the NAD sound. I’d say Marantz was the closest. Rotel is still family owned but they’re basically ran by B&W and B&W is now owned by Sound United who owns basically everyone. They own Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Onkyo, Definitive Technology, Polk, Martin Logan and a bunch of others. They just bought Klipsch and then Klipsch bought Emotiva. Sony and Yamaha and Arcam are the only ones left. Searching this week it seems pre pros are a thing of the past. Marantz has a couple that are ridiculous prices. Rotel has 1. Emotiva has a few but online reviews say they don’t sound good so I’m not going to bother. Arcam is too expensive and their reliability is no better than NAD. Arcams sound cold too. Seems Sound United is pushing everyone in a different direction. My NAD receiver has amazing designs that aren’t in other brands and they’re owned by Lynnbrook. But again, reliability……. I don’t know what to do. I’ll probably buy a Rotel even though I’d lose so many features. I’d just like to know if Rotel is going to stick around with future pre pros.

Onkyo, Pioneer, Integra, Klipsch and a few others are owned by Voxx / PAC, Sound United has been bought out by Masimo, and owns D&M, DefTech, Polk and a few others....

Yes there has been consolidation - but there is still quite strong competition between these players!

Note also that Samsung has been on a shopping spree, and now owns the Harman group (Harman, Lexicon, Arcam, JBL, Levinson and a few others) as well as B&O

So the old "small companies" of yore, are mostly now owned by major corporations

 

[Chrispy]

Onkyo, Pioneer, Integra, Klipsch and a few others are owned by Voxx / PAC, Sound United has been bought out by Masimo, and owns D&M, DefTech, Polk and a few others....

Yes there has been consolidation - but there is still quite strong competition between these players!

Note also that Samsung has been on a shopping spree, and now owns the Harman group (Harman, Lexicon, Arcam, JBL, Levinson and a few others) as well as B&O

So the old "small companies" of yore, are mostly now owned by major corporations

Not just that, but largely as the consolidation progresses, the brands will be more about marketable differences (not always related to reality). The altar of capitalism suffers in competition and diversity?

 

[dlaloum]

Not just that, but largely as the consolidation progresses, the brands will be more about marketable differences (not always related to reality). The altar of capitalism suffers in competition and diversity?

Yes well, many of these companies were started by audiophile engineers, so the designs were labours of love, sometimes perfectionist ones, sometimes more pragmatic...

Now that they are mostly corporate owned, pragmatism tends to be more common.... but places like this site (ASR) can drive some of the marketing pragmatism...

 

[Chrispy]

Yes well, many of these companies were started by audiophile engineers, so the designs were labours of love, sometimes perfectionist ones, sometimes more pragmatic...

Now that they are mostly corporate owned, pragmatism tends to be more common.... but places like this site (ASR) can drive some of the marketing pragmatism...

Audiophile engineers? Which ones and what companies?

 

[dlaloum]

Audiophile engineers? Which ones and what companies?

Saul Marantz, the original Lexicon team, Peter Walker, Mark Levinson... many of these were founded by audiophiles

 

[chelgrian]

Saul Marantz, the original Lexicon team, Peter Walker, Mark Levinson... many of these were founded by audiophiles

That doesn't mean they are any good at electronic engineering.

A modern AVR or AVP is a very complicated bit of engineering and there are few teams that can get it right. The cost of such engineering is such that you either have sky high prices such as Storm Audio, Trinnov etc. or you amortise the development cost of the platform over a much larger number of sales potentially across a number of different brands for example all the ones owned by Massimo or Voxx.

 

[chelgrian]

I noticed the last post is a bit old, but did anyone ever figure out the deal with Rotel's website? If I lookup a Rotel product it brings me to their page and shows the product. If I go on their website and want to look at surround processors, there's not even an option for that. I have a newer NAD T778 receiver and while the sound is way above anything I've ever heard, and the new tech is flashy, it's in the shop and it sounds like I'm not the only one. I own a pair of B&W 702 S2 speakers and I do use a 2 channel external amp on my fronts plus I have an 8 channel amp in my spare room so I can go the processor route vs receiver. I'm looking at the RSP-1576 or 1576MKII. I've heard a demo at a stereo shop of a Rotel and B&W sounding good but it wasn't as good as my NAD, granted this was years ago and in a different environment. I'm sure it could've been tuned to my liking. I'm looking for a brand with great sound that is also reliable and under $4000. I've owned Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, Yamaha, Sony ES and now NAD. Right now as I'm waiting for the NAD repair, I'm back on a Yamaha and it's horrible. The best sounding receiver I had besides the NAD was the newer line of Sony ES, but still not in the same league. I definitely don't want to jump on the Rotel bandwagon if the wagon is gone or leaving. Any updates or other brand suggestions?

From looking at what is on sale at dealers they appear to have exited the home theatre market entirely.

 

[anmpr1]

Saul Marantz, the original Lexicon team, Peter Walker, Mark Levinson... many of these were founded by audiophiles

How much of an engineer could you call Saul Marantz? Sid Smith, Dick Sequerra, Jim Bongiorno did much of design work at his company (pre Superscope).

For his part, Mark Levinson was more a marketeer--John Curl, Tom Colangelo, and Dick Burwen come to mind when we think of MLAS (pre Madrigal) and Cello designs. Red Rose were OEM Chinese imports. I have no idea who is responsible for designing Daniel Hertz products.

 

[dlaloum]

That doesn't mean they are any good at electronic engineering.

A modern AVR or AVP is a very complicated bit of engineering and there are few teams that can get it right. The cost of such engineering is such that you either have sky high prices such as Storm Audio, Trinnov etc. or you amortise the development cost of the platform over a much larger number of sales potentially across a number of different brands for example all the ones owned by Massimo or Voxx.

All of those were engineers... AV as a category didn't exist during their heyday (with the exception of the Lexicon team!)...

But the key point is that what they had in common was a culture of "passion" - sure to create and maintain a business you have to do some beancounting too, but all of these were driven by their passion for audio.

For the most part, all of the current AV conglomerates, are now owned and run from the top by beancounters ... the level of "passion" in the design & implementation is therefore limited....

We have moved from the equivalent in automotive terms, of the 1920's, to a paradigm that more closely aligns with todays automotive world, dominated by corporate giants.... a world in which todays Toyota Corolla is far more capable and reliable, than the Duesenbergs, Panhards, Mercedes, etc... of the 1920's... (with some exceptions... see the vintage amplifiers thread!)
But even in today's beancounter driven world, we still have porsches, ferraris and rolls royces.... alongside the fords and toyotas (and often owned by the same companies)

 

[Miker 1102]

Audiophile engineers? Which ones and what companies?

I have a friend who ran a recording studio in Nashville who calls this hobby marketing. I guess he has a point.