Roon?

[Titan01]

ROON AND STREAMING

It’s quite obvious that Roon doesn’t want to cooperate with other streamers than Tidal.

It’s been suggested that Roon start integrating Qobuz and Highresaudio - two hi-res streamers - but Roon close forum threads on this issue. Both Qobuz and Highresaudio have stated that they want to work with Roon.

Any ideas on what is at play here? If Roon were about user-orientation and high-quality audio, wouldn’t Roon be eager to integrate other streamers than Tidal?

Are there politics or financial motives here that are not easily spotted?

I think your interpretation may be off. It isn't that they don't want to integrate with other services, rather the other services are not willing to give them the access they requested. Having multiple services that operate differently in Roon would be a nightmare for user-orientation. in addition this would create a ton of confusion for users. The guys are Roon have their standards as to what they feel is acceptable for the product and they don't want to change them. You can certainly fault them for that, as i do on a couple of things, but there isn't anything nefarious as to why they haven't added any new services.

FYI - Danny Posted recently that they are in talks with Qobuz. I'd guess we will hear more closer to their US launch.

 

[Soniclife]

Both Qobuz and Highresaudio have stated that they want to work with Roon.

Do you have a link to those statements?

 

[svart-hvitt]

Do you have a link to those statements?

On Qobuz, please see point 25 in this Q&A:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=38638

On Highresaudio, this is what they wrote me in an email:

«Roon hat seit sechs Monaten unsere Dokumentation und API zur Integration. Leider haben wir keinen Einfluss, ob und wann die Hersteller HRA-Streaming integrieren. Uns wurde zwar von Roon zugesagt aber bis jetzt ist nichts passiert».

If you check out Roon forum, the Roon forum masters cut short threads on this issue.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Roon has to make money. I can’t blame them for maintaining a very successful composition between themselves and Tidal. Tidal could easily cut Roon off, if Roon entertains other streaming options.

If some Roon users prefer another streaming service over Tidal, they ought foment their revolution on another music player forum. Why don’t they bark up Jriver’s tree?

Roon is the only game in town for good reason. If/when there’s any competition, Roon might consider these [un]helpful suggestions. Until then, it’s just a distraction.

It seems like a stretch to suggest people buy a costly Roon license and maybe a $2k Roon streamer when there’s only one streaming service on the Roon platform. The market goes fast in streaming direction where most people don’t want the physical media anymore. I am just trying to figure out why Roon is unwilling to pursue other streamers than Tidal. Tidal has its documented difficulties and can hardly operate as if it were a monopoly, bullying their partners.

 

[Soniclife]

On Qobuz, please see point 25 in this Q&A:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=38638

On Highresaudio, this is what they wrote me in an email:

«Roon hat seit sechs Monaten unsere Dokumentation und API zur Integration. Leider haben wir keinen Einfluss, ob und wann die Hersteller HRA-Streaming integrieren. Uns wurde zwar von Roon zugesagt aber bis jetzt ist nichts passiert».

If you check out Roon forum, the Roon forum masters cut short threads on this issue.

I don't see any difference between what Roon have said and Qobuz have said, sounds like some form of negotiation is going on.
No idea what is going on with HRA, but I don't see threads being closed on it, just fizzle out with lack of interest, it looks a very niche offering currently.

 

[Soniclife]

It seems like a stretch to suggest people buy a costly Roon license and maybe a $2k Roon streamer...

The roon license is costly, but you don't need expensive kit to use it, they support the Pi after all.

I am just trying to figure out why Roon is unwilling to pursue other streamers than Tidal.

You're assuming they don't want to support other services, my assumption is they do want other services, but only on their terms. If Tidal fails and they don't have something else when it does I expect they will lower their standards, their business model will be very impacted if they didn't.
Their current implementation of Roon + Tidal was what sold roon to me, if they add Qobuz with the same type of integration I'll trial swapping to Qobuz.

 

[svart-hvitt]

I don't see any difference between what Roon have said and Qobuz have said, sounds like some form of negotiation is going on.
No idea what is going on with HRA, but I don't see threads being closed on it, just fizzle out with lack of interest, it looks a very niche offering currently.

Andrew Cox, Roon forum moderator wrote not long ago:

«Roon is and always has been keen to discuss integration with Qobuz or any other service provider».
Source: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/qobuz-news-and-correspondence/17536

So Roon is obviously lying. They are NOT keen to discuss integration with ANY other service provider.

It’s this lying and opacity on the streaming issue at Roon that’s caught my intention. So I try and understand Roon’s behaviour. Is it some sort of play or politics going on? Will the interest of Roon users be taken care of in this game?

It reminds me of the saying that if you have been in a poker game for a while, and you still don’t know who the patsy is, you’re the patsy.

 

[Soniclife]

Andrew Cox, Roon forum moderator wrote not long ago:

«Roon is and always has been keen to discuss integration with Qobuz or any other service provider».
Source: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/qobuz-news-and-correspondence/17536

So Roon is obviously lying. They are NOT keen to discuss integration with ANY other service provider.

It’s this lying and opacity on the streaming issue at Roon that’s caught my intention. So I try and understand Roon’s behaviour. Is it some sort of play or politics going on? Will the interest of Roon users be taken care of in this game?

It reminds me of the saying that if you have been in a poker game for a while, and you still don’t know who the patsy is, you’re the patsy.

That was back in 2016, which is the equivalent of another century in music streaming terms, and I don't see how that makes them liars, Qobuz were on record at the time as not wanting to partner with Roon, they said they wanted to make the Qobuz app better so people would not want Roon. I don't see any opacity from Roon other than not wanting to talk about things in negotiation, which is the correct way to do business.

 

[svart-hvitt]

That was back in 2016, which is the equivalent of another century in music streaming terms, and I don't see how that makes them liars, Qobuz were on record at the time as not wanting to partner with Roon, they said they wanted to make the Qobuz app better so people would not want Roon. I don't see any opacity from Roon other than not wanting to talk about things in negotiation, which is the correct way to do business.

Roon don’t answer, they ignore Highresaudio. That’s not good business practice either.

 

[Soniclife]

Roon don’t answer Highresaudio.

How do you know? Roon are public about needing more than the API, have HRA said they will offer the database dumps Roon want.

 

[svart-hvitt]

How do you know? Roon are public about needing more than the API, have HRA said they will offer the database dumps Roon want.

As I documented above, it seems like Highresaudio have done anything in their way to be integrated into Roon. HRA wrote:

«Roon hat seit sechs Monaten unsere Dokumentation und API zur Integration. Leider haben wir keinen Einfluss, ob und wann die Hersteller HRA-Streaming integrieren. Uns wurde zwar von Roon zugesagt aber bis jetzt ist nichts passiert».

So they’ve sent both documentation and API to Roon. They haven’t heard anything since the first contact and now feel they need to use their users to ask Roon about the issue. That’s a bit strange, isn’t it?

 

[amirm]

Having worked with may of these music providers in the past, they all think having their user interface presented to customers is paramount. Problem is, they tend to be terrible at writing user interfaces. It is almost a religious thing to them. There is also some business reason such as wanting to advertise or sell users something beside music in their app/website.

Also religious for a small company is Roon. They hold on to their convictions strongly like not supporting UPnP and such.

So one or the other needs to cave for a collaboration to work.

 

[Soniclife]

As I documented above, it seems like Highresaudio have done anything in their way to be integrated into Roon. HRA wrote:

«Roon hat seit sechs Monaten unsere Dokumentation und API zur Integration. Leider haben wir keinen Einfluss, ob und wann die Hersteller HRA-Streaming integrieren. Uns wurde zwar von Roon zugesagt aber bis jetzt ist nichts passiert».

So they’ve sent both documentation and API to Roon. They haven’t heard anything since the first contact and now feel they need to use their users to ask Roon about the issue. That’s a bit strange, isn’t it?

They don't seem to have done anything but have an API and a hope that is enough for Roon, when it isn't. Did you see the comments about databases being sent daily?
From what I have seen at launch HRA seem to have strongly suggested Roon integration was on it's way, but they don't appear to have a contract in place with Roon, who I am guessing would absolutely want a contract before starting any coding. You would have to be an insider in the companies to know how that situation came about.

 

[Soniclife]

Having worked with may of these music providers in the past, they all think having their user interface presented to customers is paramount. Problem is, they tend to be terrible at writing user interfaces. It is almost a religious thing to them.

I was talking to someone recently who was developing an app for a hifi product (not one anyone around here is likely to be buying) and he was moaning about the changes spotify were insisting on to ensure their branding was very prominent, it largely ruined the app for no good reason. The odd thing is they were not doing the same things in their own app, comparing his app on his phone to the spotify app on my phone was illuminating.

 

[svart-hvitt]

FWIW, Audirvana Plus will in new update stream Tidal, Qobuz and Highresaudio.

See from 0:40 at

So it seems like a French one-man shop manages do to what Roon cannot.

Having said that, Roon’s implementation of Tidal is quite poor. Lists of most popular songs by artist are missing and some albums are missing altogether.

So I can’t understand what’s the Roon enthusism is about. It may be a good option for those who had physical media that are ripped to files. But old geezers aren’t a market driver. Streaming is what counts in the future. And Roon is for some reason or another married to the Tidal gangstas.

 

[DuxServit]

I have Roon, JR and Audirvana.

 

[svart-hvitt]

I have Roon, JR and Audirvana.

Ok? What’s your point?

I have Audirvana, HQ Player, Amarra (old license) and Roon.

Roon is nice but Audirvana may become a better option for those who stream only.

 

[dallasjustice]

If I stream everyday, will it slow the onset of old geezer?

 

[DuxServit]

Ok? What’s your point?

The OP asked: “Is Roon widely used among forum members here?”

I answered.

Not making any quality comparisons among these 3 products.

 

[svart-hvitt]

If I stream everyday, will it slow the onset of old geezer?

Geezer:

«A geezer is a descriptive word in the UK which is used to define a mans characteristics. A geezer will be found usually out side a pub with a pint in his hand on match day. They commonly like football, scrapping, beer, tea, tits, and Barry white. Geezersoften acknowledge other geezers by a greeting each other by saying geezer followed by a nod and a thumbs up».
Source: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Geezer&amp=true&defid=8145232

@dallasjustice , I guess it depends on your listening to Barry White or not