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Roon Vālence

LarsS

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#1
1574414040450.jpeg


Roon Labs is proud to announce the largest project we’ve ever undertaken. After two years of focused design and engineering, we’re unveiling an entirely new technology we call Vālence.
 

astr0b0y

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#2
Hmmm. I not yet convinced by its discovery recommendations for me. Van Morrison and Celine Dion? Still, it’s supposed to be a machine learning tech so maybe with a bit of use it will be better.
 

FrantzM

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#3
Let's hope it works as well as Spotify's. I have discovered more music I like through Spotify, the only reason why I have kept 3 services (Spotify, Roon, Tidal). Tidal interface is horrible , Roon is its de-facto interface, for me. Roon was (is?) my goto music player until it started working strangely with some of my hardware .. Spotify has a great library and its algorithm for finding music I may like is the best of the lot IMO ... Hope Valence gets to the point of surpassing or at least, challenge Spotify.
 

Soniclife

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#4
Immediately after I installed the new version it recommend things that made complete sense to me, for example I didn't know there was a new album out by A Winged Victory for the Sullen, I do know.
 
OP
LarsS

LarsS

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Thread Starter #5
Listening to Chrissie Hynde’s recent jazz recordings, Roon’s suggestions makes good sense so far. My three kids all use Spotify, me only Tidal due to lossless & prior to Roon entering.
 

Soniclife

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#6
A bit more time to poke about in it's recommendations, and I'm impressed, I understand where the recommendations are coming from, and it's finding stuff I would never have known about, because there is so much music out there. The only missteps I've spotted are way down the sorted by relevance list, Celine Dion, and the new frozen soundtrack, I have no idea how that happened. Maybe it knows something about my tastes I don't.
 

oivavoi

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#7
This may be slightly off-topic in this thread, but it comes from a person who has been streaming for years, and is now heavily debating with himself whether to go all in on Roon or not, or just skip the whole streaming thing and go back to CDs for ever (just leaving airplay functionality in the hifi system for the occasional youtube concert):

Aren't there some dangers with this kind of algorithms, this limitless freedom of discovery? That we become shallow in our musical listening, just ever going on to the next musical thing instead of really delving into music we can get intimately acquainted with? Is streaming to music what tinder has been to romance? The "swipe next" culture overtakes music?

When I was in my teens and twenties - before streaming - I remember that I knew many CDs by heart. Whether it was pop or rock, or classical pieces and interpretations, or classical jazz albums from Mingus or Coltrane - I knew them intimately. I did not have a limitless supply of music at home, so I really listened to what I had. This, I believe, made this music become a part of me. I knew every single word on Abbey Road or After the Gold Rush, I knew every single note Keith Jarret played on the Köln Concert. And so on.

The last decade - in my 30s - I don't think there is any new music I've only listened to which has become a part of me in a similar way. I suspect this is because of streaming. I almost never to listen to a recording more than twice, at the very max, sometimes three if it's something really special.

I feel that I have lost something. As a singer in a semi-professional classical choir, I also know that intimate exposure to music over time does something. When we practice a difficult piece every week for a couple of month, and then perform at two or three concerts, I really get to know it. It's like the different parts of the piece start speaking to me in a different way after a while - it really gets to me.

Listening to a CD repeatedly had some of the effect on me. But are we losing this now, in our new musical culture? I think so. I've certainly lost it myself, at least, and wonder whether I will need to drop streaming completely to get it back. So even though Valence looks promising, and might turn out to be better at predicting my preferences than other algorithms (Spotify has done the least bad job so far), I'm torn as to whether this would actually be a boon to me, everything taken in account. Maybe I would become more musically enriched by listening to my old CDs one extra time instead.
 

Tks

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#8
This may be slightly off-topic in this thread, but it comes from a person who has been streaming for years, and is now heavily debating with himself whether to go all in on Roon or not, or just skip the whole streaming thing and go back to CDs for ever (just leaving airplay functionality in the hifi system for the occasional youtube concert):

Aren't there some dangers with this kind of algorithms, this limitless freedom of discovery? That we become shallow in our musical listening, just ever going on to the next musical thing instead of really delving into music we can get intimately acquainted with? Is streaming to music what tinder has been to romance? The "swipe next" culture overtakes music?

When I was in my teens and twenties - before streaming - I remember that I knew many CDs by heart. Whether it was pop or rock, or classical pieces and interpretations, or classical jazz albums from Mingus or Coltrane - I knew them intimately. I did not have a limitless supply of music at home, so I really listened to what I had. This, I believe, made this music become a part of me. I knew every single word on Abbey Road or After the Gold Rush, I knew every single note Keith Jarret played on the Köln Concert. And so on.

The last decade - in my 30s - I don't think there is any new music I've only listened to which has become a part of me in a similar way. I suspect this is because of streaming. I almost never to listen to a recording more than twice, at the very max, sometimes three if it's something really special.

I feel that I have lost something. As a singer in a semi-professional classical choir, I also know that intimate exposure to music over time does something. When we practice a difficult piece every week for a couple of month, and then perform at two or three concerts, I really get to know it. It's like the different parts of the piece start speaking to me in a different way after a while - it really gets to me.

Listening to a CD repeatedly had some of the effect on me. But are we losing this now, in our new musical culture? I think so. I've certainly lost it myself, at least, and wonder whether I will need to drop streaming completely to get it back. So even though Valence looks promising, and might turn out to be better at predicting my preferences than other algorithms (Spotify has done the least bad job so far), I'm torn as to whether this would actually be a boon to me, everything taken in account. Maybe I would become more musically enriched by listening to my old CDs one extra time instead.

I just grab a few tracks that randomly play through streaming that I enjoy without question after a day of streaming music. When I have 10-20 tracks, thats where I stop streaming, and seek out the albums that contain the tracks, then I listen to the albums. After that, any artist that I find a liking to, I find more of their work. If any of the works are good, I'll purchase the albums and enjoy them while also slowly working on the rest of the tracks and their albums/artists for the next few days/weeks/months.

Streaming services simply leave me uneasy, one day having them shut off and not having that music I would like to listen to is simply something I don't want to risk. Most people couldn't care less since they jump from song to song like some crack addiction that needs to be sustained with fresh supply constantly especially through streaming.
 

Soniclife

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#9
This may be slightly off-topic in this thread, but it comes from a person who has been streaming for years, and is now heavily debating with himself whether to go all in on Roon or not, or just skip the whole streaming thing and go back to CDs for ever (just leaving airplay functionality in the hifi system for the occasional youtube concert):

Aren't there some dangers with this kind of algorithms, this limitless freedom of discovery? That we become shallow in our musical listening, just ever going on to the next musical thing instead of really delving into music we can get intimately acquainted with? Is streaming to music what tinder has been to romance? The "swipe next" culture overtakes music?

When I was in my teens and twenties - before streaming - I remember that I knew many CDs by heart. Whether it was pop or rock, or classical pieces and interpretations, or classical jazz albums from Mingus or Coltrane - I knew them intimately. I did not have a limitless supply of music at home, so I really listened to what I had. This, I believe, made this music become a part of me. I knew every single word on Abbey Road or After the Gold Rush, I knew every single note Keith Jarret played on the Köln Concert. And so on.

The last decade - in my 30s - I don't think there is any new music I've only listened to which has become a part of me in a similar way. I suspect this is because of streaming. I almost never to listen to a recording more than twice, at the very max, sometimes three if it's something really special.

I feel that I have lost something. As a singer in a semi-professional classical choir, I also know that intimate exposure to music over time does something. When we practice a difficult piece every week for a couple of month, and then perform at two or three concerts, I really get to know it. It's like the different parts of the piece start speaking to me in a different way after a while - it really gets to me.

Listening to a CD repeatedly had some of the effect on me. But are we losing this now, in our new musical culture? I think so. I've certainly lost it myself, at least, and wonder whether I will need to drop streaming completely to get it back. So even though Valence looks promising, and might turn out to be better at predicting my preferences than other algorithms (Spotify has done the least bad job so far), I'm torn as to whether this would actually be a boon to me, everything taken in account. Maybe I would become more musically enriched by listening to my old CDs one extra time instead.
I've struggled with similar thoughts myself. My internal questions are around feelings I'm disrespecting music by dismissing it too quickly, and the unanswerable question of how much music should you have in your life and how fast should you add to it.

When I first got Spotify I would sit down and wiz through a whole bunch of albums, skipping forward in tracks, listening for only a few seconds then skipping again. I found almost nothing I liked using this system. Quite a few of my favourite albums have take time to get to know, is some cases multiple plays to even like, but something kept nagging me to try it again, before something wonderful clicked.

Eventually I recognised that what I was doing wasn't working, and I needed to sample much less music. Which is a weird place to be in, a vast amount of music just a click away, but what to click on. I noticed a pattern I've experienced over my life, there are droughts where I don't discover new music, then a flood, streaming offers to change that, but my brain cannot cope, and my old pattern is what works for me. So now I try to be happy if I find something like 50 albums I really like a year, I think that's about my historic consumption limit. Really liking an album means I listen to it multiple times, and expect to go on listening to it from time to time into the future.

So for me good streaming recommendations are a good thing, if they can fill in for the small record shops that would suggest stuff, and play things, plus better music journalism from times not everything got flattering reviews. Right now the new roon feels a bit like that, I can try new realises out, but I need to behave as I used to, as if I'd bought the physical version, and listen all the way through a few times, reject it if I'm not interested, keep coming back if I'm not sure, or wear it out of its love on first listen.
 

watchnerd

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#10
View attachment 39797

Roon Labs is proud to announce the largest project we’ve ever undertaken. After two years of focused design and engineering, we’re unveiling an entirely new technology we call Vālence.
How is this different from what the Roon Radio feature already does if you tell it to start playing at the end of a track/album?
 

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