Room treatments and speaker suggestions

[davmol]

I'm having work done on my house later this year and will have two locations where I will be listening to audio. One will be for stereo hifi, and the other for either a 3.1 or 3.2 home cinema setup. Possibly would also consider adding two in-ceiling speakers for height / atmos effects but there will be no rears due to seating pushed up against rear wall.

Here are the plans with speakers in red dots and sub(s) in blue:

The speakers for home cinema will be pushed close to the wall and you can see at least the rear part of the left and right speakers will have a side wall. I can also consider in-wall for LCR speakers. The sub(s) location is quite flexible depending on room response.

The hifi I already own and the speakers and Wharfedale Linton 85th. The new location will see one in a corner and the other open to the kitchen, with a sloped ceiling. They can be pulled forward a little but the front wall is essentially all glass, and with the sloped glazing following the roof line, adding curtains will not be an option. Again, speaker location is non-negotiable.

So, given the non negotiable locations, I was wondering if there are a tips with regards to room treatments that I can consider to help get the best from either the hifi or home cinema locations? I will be using dsp / room correction in both scenarios, so this is more about physical materials and treatments. Whatever they are they will need to be aesthetically pleasing and/or can be built into the fabric of the building if needed as at this stage work has not started.

Also happy to hear any speaker suggestions for the home cinema. I have considered kef q6, or ascilab f6bs (if they release their centre this year), and sub I'm thinking of going with a RSL speed woofer 12s, and adding a second later down the line only if there are nulls to deal with. Happy to consider others, including l/r towers, if they're suitable being pushed back against the wall. Ideally I don't want to spend much more than £2k for the LCR speakers and one sub (happy to buy new or used/ refurb). Thanks!

 

[dannut]

Sorry for the short reply - but a proper design takes time and resources...

• you have ideal nook for a false-wall in-wall system. 3 identical speakers either above or below teh TV, similar elevation. Nook covered with fabric and stuffed with absorbers.
• Hang a dye-sublimation printed picture with 10cm of absorbing material behind the seating.
• that's it
• oh and no 'ATMOS' height, but regular 5.x surround with in-ceiling speakers. Need to be either aimable to the seating location or very wide dispersion. Or have you considered on-wall, wide-dispersion surrounds hugging the listening area? Think something like JBL HST. Or even a small Minx-min 22 aimed sideways. Or just a speaker aimed up from a tabletop.

 

[davmol]

Thanks for the reply! I think I've decided to abandon dual listening locations and just use my Linton's as L/R for the home cinema and hifi duties, mainly because I love how they sound and Wharfedale have just released a matching heritage-line centre speaker (stock photo below).

I did consider the in-walls, but I like the thought that in future, whether for failure or just preference, I can make a change without having to worry about changes to the wall. Subwoofer wise I'm thinking to keep it simpler with one sub, and planning on going for the RSL Speedwoofer 12S and running it wireless on the rear wall next to the sofa. Still undecided on high speakers but am considering two of the RSL C34E MKII in-ceiling speakers, as I like their directional tweeter. I've never had in ceiling speakers, so should I be placing them directly above seating positions when sat off the sofa, or tight to the rear wall (best that would get for me 4-6 inches behind my head)? And I should just run them as rear lefts and rights?

For the receiver I think I'm going to go for the Marantz Cinema 70S, running pre-outs to a 3-channel 3eAudio / Alsozone power amp for LCR channels. I know this receiver is only running Audyssey and not DIRAC but I quite like the look of the Audyssey One script, so not too concerned. I can always return if it can't do the job but it has good reviews, so I'm hopeful with the power amp it will be fine.

I did a rough mockup of the final look with the Lintons, using ChatGPT:

Unlike what's shown in the gpt mockup, the face of Lintons will actually sit forward at least 6-inches proud of the comment breasts, and given the L/R will be at around 2m centres and I'll be sat 3m back, this will remain reasonably close to the 10 degree toe-out recommendation from Erin (which I agree with). The Audyssey room correction will have to deal with the bass in the corners, but the ports shouldn't have too much work given I'll probably cross to the sub somewhere between 50 and 60hz.

There will be a thick area rug in front of the speakers, and in terms of wall treatment, I have seen these GIK Acoustic panels, which seem similar to what you mentioned. I noticed they have frequency specs on them, so would I need to measure the room first, or is it an easy calculation given it will be 325cm from the face of the speakers to the rear wall? Lastly, is there any benefit from adding one or more ceiling diffusers / panels? The ceiling is 270cm high and the Lintons are 100cm tall.

 

[dannut]

I did consider the in-walls, but I like the thought that in future, whether for failure or just preference, I can make a change without having to worry about changes to the wall.

Sorry for not being clear. You don't build a solid gypsumboard/OSB wall, but frame the TV in and use acoustically transparent fabric. Regular speakers are behind fabric - not inwalls! There you can hide the sub also and can use elevation as an additional degree of freedom.

I think I've decided to abandon dual listening locations and just use my Linton's as L/R for the home cinema and hifi duties, mainly because I love how they sound and Wharfedale have just released a matching heritage-line centre speaker

That appears to be an excellent centre. Caveats: your L-C-R have dissimilar height and dissimilar phase response. To not compromise sound I would keep the tweeters in about 30cm in elevation (~6degrees from listening distance). Either place the centre as high as possible to meet the L-R or place the L-R upside down (would like to make sure the lobing behavior is acceptable) to meet the centre tweeter. Or if you build the frame for fabric, then 3 identical Lintons upside-down, above the TV. TV as low as possible. Or 3 identical Lintons as low as possible (on the ground, you can elevate the sound-stage using strategic frequency shaping) and TV above.

Subwoofer wise I'm thinking to keep it simpler with one sub, and planning on going for the RSL Speedwoofer 12S and running it wireless on the rear wall next to the sofa.

Excellent choice! I would still run one on the front wall. Wireless introduces so much delay, that the cheaper AVRs can't correct for the time delay. Usually speakers need to be delayed, so wireless adds additional problem.

Still undecided on high speakers but am considering two of the RSL C34E MKII in-ceiling speakers, as I like their directional tweeter. I've never had in ceiling speakers, so should I be placing them directly above seating positions when sat off the sofa, or tight to the rear wall (best that would get for me 4-6 inches behind my head)? And I should just run them as rear lefts and rights?

RSL doesn't have the angles needed. Instead position a high-angle coax (like a Tannoy PCI 7DC RB) as far from the listening area as possible, so listeners are still inside the ~ -3 - 83deg pattern. Or use on-walls as mentioned previously. Regular 5.1.

For the receiver I think I'm going to go for the Marantz Cinema 70S, running pre-outs to a 3-channel 3eAudio / Alsozone power amp for LCR channels. I know this receiver is only running Audyssey and not DIRAC but I quite like the look of the Audyssey One script, so not too concerned.

Excellent. Use the cheapest Denon/Marantz with Audyssey xt32, that can be later upgraded to Dirac ART. They have stout amp, nothing to be gained by running similar voltage swing external amps. Especially with your listening distances and highish efficiency speakers. Audyssey One script should correct for the dissimilar L-C-R phase response.

I noticed they have frequency specs on them, so would I need to measure the room first, or is it an easy calculation given it will be 325cm from the face of the speakers to the rear wall? Lastly, is there any benefit from adding one or more ceiling diffusers / panels? The ceiling is 270cm high and the Lintons are 100cm tall.

Worry about the back wall coverage first behind the patrons heads. As thick as possible. Can leave ~10-15cm gaps between the pictures. And if you do a hidden front wall system, the acoustic material coverage is aesthetically 'free' and deep enough, to mitigate upper bass/SBIR issues.

 

[dannut]

Instead position a high-angle coax (like a Tannoy PCI 7DC RB) as far from the listening area as possible, so listeners are still inside the ~ -3 - 83deg pattern. Or use on-walls as mentioned previously. Regular 5.1.

Better than in-ceiling surround speakers, I would advise you to look how cute the JBL CBT50-s are. They come with an angle-swivel bracket and are paintable. They have couple of good things going on for surround duty in tricky places - smooth SPL falloff below the speaker main lobe and apparent source is behind the speaker baffle. Smart aiming equalizes the SPL across the listening area and can be even implemented in a time-intensity trading scenario. Also no hotspotting for the near-sitter due to slower then 1/r SPL falloff in the nearfield.

You position them slightly above the listening height and swivel them inside towards the couch pointed at the farthest listener, if possible.

If you have work already done in your home, then just have a run of CL2/CL3 low voltage wire for surrounds, for Atmos tops and couple sub positions besides the couch. Then you can also have in-ceiling ATMOS and have 5.x.2 immersive system in the future.

 

[Keith_W]

Is his name "Chernobyl" by any chance?

 

[davmol]

Thanks for all the help, I'll be considering it all, as the refurb is only starting early next year, so plenty of time to figure out positions and cable runs etc.

View attachment 543843

Is his name "Chernobyl" by any chance?

Haha, I saw that and thought that if I leave it in then at least I don't have to add a "image made with AI" tag!