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Room treatment project!

dallasjustice

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To give you an example of how little the input matters in a well designed DAC, checkout the jitter measurements JA did on the MSB DAC. I think that's one of your favorite DACs. There's no no difference in the jitter spectra for the various inputs.



Take some jitter measurements when connected to the Hilo, and compare with when the USB interface is used. You won't need golden ears to see the results :)

I highly doubt Bruno told you about these DSP boards as they were just unveiled to OEM's only. They are designed by the same engineer and built at the same factory as your Mola Mola. But it seems like the subs are #1 and the main speakers are #2 in your setup, so I guess my advice isn't for you.
 

Thomas savage

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Sounds are unimportant; it's what inside them...their meaning, the message. ...The words that sounds try to describe. :)
:D ok bob.. sometimes the scale of sounds can undermine the voice of the frame\scene of the movie. its a scale miss match thing, its not a deeper meaning observation based on whats inside a sound?

really sometimes a hot dog is just a hot dog :) not a reflection of mangled dreams restrained by a skin of guilt wrapped in a roll of comforting delusion.. .. just a wet sausage in a bland roll..:D
 

NorthSky

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I want TRINNOV Room EQ in my next pre/pro, and I want it affordable too. ...Say no more than five grands (Canadian loonies).
Right now the ALTITUDE is sky expensive...only high paying jobs and good pensions or solid retirement funds are in the gyroscope of its equilateral compass.

Submarines use sophisticated radars to tactically maneuver their underwater ways around.
Audio, stereo and multichannel, is the same. ...Music, and Movies.
 

Mivera

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View attachment 365 To give you an example of how little the input matters in a well designed DAC, checkout the jitter measurements JA did on the MSB DAC. I think that's one of your favorite DACs. There's no no difference in the jitter spectra for the various inputs.

What was the transport used? I just sent a USB to AES/EBU bridge to Amir to measure. We will see what his results say. If the transport doesn't matter, well I guess the $200 Chinese bridge is all anyone needs. Amir can sell off his Berkeley. And then I can send a message to the manufacturer to say that their recently revised upgraded version that everyone says is better was improved for no reason. Because the transport quality has no bearing on the final result.
 

NorthSky

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:D ok bob.. sometimes the scale of sounds can undermine the voice of the frame\scene of the movie. its a scale miss match thing, its not a deeper meaning observation based on whats inside a sound?

really sometimes a hot dog is just a hot dog :) not a reflection of mangled dreams restrained by a skin of guilt wrapped in a roll of comforting delusion.. .. just a wet sausage in a bland roll..:D

Vocals...opera singers, chorales, human voices are our best reference on the meaning of life in a higher emotional level, plus the word's meaning.
Dance till you die, because without dance we're nothing. And music with voices of high intensity...flamenco, tango, gypsy, ...makes us dance with words of body language.
 

NorthSky

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I have used Tact, Trinnov and Dirac, in it's various iterations and even flirted with Acourate , the best sound quality I have achieved is with the Illusonic processor and most importantly an EQ created by Christof Faller.
Keith

Hi Keith,

I'm interested, in what you just posted above. Could you please extend good info, pics, measurements, links, videos, porno gear, etc.?
Ty and cheers,
 
OP
Purité Audio

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North Hi, briefly my first exposure to DRC was at the very first Munich HiEnd show I attended, ten years ago perhaps, Peter Schippers was using Acourate software to try and improve the Krell 'portakabin' .
Munich has huge downstairs hall, where small cabins are built up from scratch.
The difference the software made in admittedly a terrible sounding space was enormous.
I was so impressed I started looking at room correction, my thought was 'perfect' sound without the physical acoustic treatment .
I looked at the various options available , Trinnov seemed the most innovative and when we compared it to the Tact unit it was an improvement, the room still sounded like the room but just better.
The difficulty with Trinnov was that initially they set their target curve to flat, which no one liked , often we would almost have to return the room to its pre correction condition before customers were satisfied.
Also the reliability of the units was questionable and the company were unhelpful and arrogant .
Dirac corrected to the raditional B&K downhill ski slope curve , customers much preferred this, less versatile but straightforward to use ,and did not require an expensive 'box'.
At the moment my feeling is, try and get as smooth a response as you an physically, ie passive treatment ,position,multiple subs perhaps and then use as little EQ as possible.
I let Christof Faller (Illusonic) create the EQ he knows what he is doing and it shows, the sound quality in my room now is the finest I have ever enjoyed.
Keith.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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View attachment 365 To give you an example of how little the input matters in a well designed DAC, checkout the jitter measurements JA did on the MSB DAC. I think that's one of your favorite DACs. There's no no difference in the jitter spectra for the various inputs.

Slightly off-subject, but I'm reminded of an old joke among guitar players: "There's no money above the third fret." I'm one of the least technical among us, no doubt, but seriously, is there any money below -100Db when the music is playing? It's not that I don't appreciate the nobility of over-engineering, but what I want to pay for is what makes a difference. It seems to me that to a great extent, DAC manufacturers have, for some time now, been making most of their improvements pretty deep in the dark recesses of the inaudible. If you guys can hear this, I'll have to congratulate you on having discovered your superhero powers. Or embrace the sad notion that audiophile nervosa has penetrated so deep into the digital realm that what should be the great equalizer, what should all but have eliminated silly-priced sources (the technical term), has been rendered pointless by paranoia.

Oh, and completely off subject, but I'd like to congratulate Tom on "a reflection of mangled dreams restrained by a skin of guilt wrapped in a roll of comforting delusion." A lovely turn of phrase beautifully contrasted by "just a wet sausage in a bland roll." Well done, sir. But I suspect these jitter improvements, in well designed DACS above about 500 bucks, are more engineering sausage-making than good nutrition.

Tim
 

NorthSky

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North Hi, briefly my first exposure to DRC was at the very first Munich HiEnd show I attended, ten years ago perhaps, Peter Schippers was using Acourate software to try and improve the Krell 'portakabin' .
Munich has huge downstairs hall, where small cabins are built up from scratch.
The difference the software made in admittedly a terrible sounding space was enormous.
I was so impressed I started looking at room correction, my thought was 'perfect' sound without the physical acoustic treatment .
I looked at the various options available , Trinnov seemed the most innovative and when we compared it to the Tact unit it was an improvement, the room still sounded like the room but just better.
The difficulty with Trinnov was that initially they set their target curve to flat, which no one liked , often we would almost have to return the room to its pre correction condition before customers were satisfied.
Also the reliability of the units was questionable and the company were unhelpful and arrogant .
Dirac corrected to the raditional B&K downhill ski slope curve , customers much preferred this, less versatile but straightforward to use ,and did not require an expensive 'box'.
At the moment my feeling is, try and get as smooth a response as you an physically, ie passive treatment ,position,multiple subs perhaps and then use as little EQ as possible.
I let Christof Faller (Illusonic) create the EQ he knows what he is doing and it shows, the sound quality in my room now is the finest I have ever enjoyed.
Keith.

Thanks Keith for the feedback. You incited me to investigate...very good. :cool:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-64#0WqkwgAfmOG9xZI0.97
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/illusonic/1.html

http://www.illusonic.com/
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ive-Processing&p=206001&viewfull=1#post206001


♣ Norman's brief comment: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread.php?t=4148&p=55379&viewfull=1#post55379

@ $21,300 it's not for everyone. Also, I found out that back in 2013 and 2014 I was in few discussions about Illusonic; it's one example of memory failure. But it's all coming back, and the more feedback from new people, like you Keith, that I can read about the more I learn.

* Now, I'll be checking TRINNOV with the Harman curve ~
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/trinnov-amethyst-preamp/
http://www.trinnov.com/products/hi-fi/amethyst/introduction-amethyst/?lang=en_us

P.S. By accident (in my search) I stumbled into this guy from Yello (I'm a big fan of his band): http://www.psiaudio.com/en/references/boris-blank-yello/
 
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NorthSky

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More...in the pursuit of room treatment supplement:

Poll Results: Best Multi-Channel processor currently on the market?

Classe SSP800 →
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10.19%
Bryton SP3 → 9.43%
ADA Mach IV → 1.51%
ADA Mach IV+Trinnov → 10.57%
Datasat RS20i → 19.62%
Theta CB3 HDMI + Extreme Dacs → 13.21%
Krell Evolution 707 → 5.66%
Mcintosh MX151 → 9.81%
JBL Synthesis with SDEC 4500 → 6.79%
Other (comment on your answer) → 13.96%

Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 265.
 
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NorthSky

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Poll Results: Best Multi-Channel processor currently on the market?

Classe SSP800
clear.gif
27
Bryton SP3
clear.gif
25
ADA Mach IV
clear.gif
4
ADA Mach IV+Trinnov
clear.gif
28
Datasat RS20i
clear.gif
52
Theta CB3 HDMI + Extreme Dacs
clear.gif
35
Krell Evolution 707
clear.gif
15
Mcintosh MX151
clear.gif
26
JBL Synthesis with SDEC 4500
clear.gif
18
Other (comment on your answer)
clear.gif
37

Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 265.
 

NorthSky

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♦ One of my fav female violinist (Rachel Podger) in this TRINNOV article: http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-62#yumhyTJY6ITE5bXx.97
http://www.trinnov.com/products/home-theater/altitude32/introduction-altitude32/?lang=en_us
http://highend-hifi-shop.de/trinnove-altitude-32.html

Extreme flexibility:
The Optimizer is also unique in providing not only target curves but also over 40 different optimization parameters that can be applied on the fly, and saved in one of the 29 user presets available.

Bonus: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/how-to-interpret-graphs/
 
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OP
Purité Audio

Purité Audio

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Srajan didn't give Ilusonic a very good review, Christof told me though that when he measured Srajans room his single driver loudspeakers rolled off steeply at both ends, in. large room there was no real bass to correct!
Bass is always the main issue IMHO.
Keith.
 

NorthSky

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It's not a review, it's a preview. When 6moons does a review it is usually extensive.
Kal Rubinson also gave his account.

You can get a professional custom made multichannel home theater room, acoustically sound and with all the gear and speakers included for only $300,000
Would you like the company's name Keith, and with the gear they provide? ...Plus of course their vast experience on room's acoustics and room treatments.

https://twit.tv/shows/home-theater-geeks/episodes/290?autostart=false
 
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FrantzM

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Srajan didn't give Ilusonic a very good review, Christof told me though that when he measured Srajans room his single driver loudspeakers rolled off steeply at both ends, in. large room there was no real bass to correct!
Bass is always the main issue IMHO.
Keith.
single drivers .. Another assault against the very notion of High Fidelity . I heard once one of those, could have been a Lowther, at a show driven by a SET.. To this day I simply can't understand what it was. Naively I thought the system was broken but several in the room were apparently having a great time of a .. you guessed it!, .. small Jazz ensemble and a female vocalist .. The only thing faithful about the mess was the female voice ... No highs , no lows but it wasn't Bose ...
 

Mivera

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single drivers .. Another assault against the very notion of High Fidelity . I heard once one of those, could have been a Lowther, at a show driven by a SET.. To this day I simply can't understand what it was. Naively I thought the system was broken but several in the room were apparently having a great time of a .. you guessed it!, .. small Jazz ensemble and a female vocalist .. The only thing faithful about the mess was the female voice ... No highs , no lows but it wasn't Bose ...

There is some very nice full range drivers out there. But used on their own it's definitely not a full range experience.
 

FrantzM

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There is some very nice full range drivers out there. But used on their own it's definitely not a full range experience.
Blizz ..
Once NOT used on their own we no longer can talk about Single driver speakers ..Can we?
 

Mivera

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Blizz ..
Once NOT used on their own we no longer can talk about Single driver speakers ..Can we?

I was talking about full range drivers, not single driver speakers. And one could add a powered sub to a setup with a full range single driver speaker if they wanted to.
 

Thomas savage

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ordered one of these today miniDSP UMIK-1 USB Measurement Calibrated Microphone.. when it comes i will attempt to do some basic room measurements and then attempt to post them for your amusement.

get this thread back on track.. i have no camera but will get my GF to take some pic's of spaz towers so you can all see how dysfunctional i am. my room looks like the opening scene of a scandinavian crime drama about a oppressed serial killer but hey i guess the process might serve as some kind of cathartic confessional treatment of sorts.. god knows something needs to be done.

i have to say 90% (99%) of rooms i see online look crap to me, with speakers in corners and right up against walls.. and way way too close together. mine is not ideal, buts its the best i have got it so far, we will see the truth once the measurements are in..
 
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Mivera

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ordered one of these today miniDSP UMIK-1 USB Measurement Calibrated Microphone.. when it comes i will attempt to do some basic room measurements and then attempt to post them for your amusement.

get this thread back on track.. i have no camra but will get my GF to take some pic's of spaz towers so you c

I bought one of them as well. Decent little mic for the price. Combined with REW, it is a decent low cost measurement system. Although I found my FFT results filtering out the impulse response room reflections are far superior with CLIO and their MIC-01. So it can be misleading as well. It seems there's just too much lag to get it right somewhere in the system.
 
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