Room Size Questions and Placement

[Ogoript]

My room is open 34ft by 15ft that includes a sitting area, small dining area and kitchen. The sketch is a little busy, but hopefully this give some idea of the room.

When considering room size, do I need to be concerned with the entire "room" or mostly where I listen which is 1/3rd of the room along the short side.

Are room modes the entire room or more concentrated in the listening area?

I am working on general speaker placement to minimize some bass bloat and suck outs. I do have a UMIK-1 and will do measurements at some point which I'm sure will give me the answers I am looking for, but thought I would get some general input here.

Speakers are LS50 Wireless II with 2 KC62 subs. I'm also considering a pair of LS60s to replace the LS50 Wireless II's. Listening position is about 3.5 meters from speakers.

 

[JPA]

My room is open 34ft by 15ft that includes a sitting area, small dining area and kitchen. The sketch is a little busy, but hopefully this give some idea of the room.

When considering room size, do I need to be concerned with the entire "room" or mostly where I listen which is 1/3rd of the room along the short side.

Are room modes the entire room or more concentrated in the listening area?

I am working on general speaker placement to minimize some bass bloat and suck outs. I do have a UMIK-1 and will do measurements at some point which I'm sure will give me the answers I am looking for, but thought I would get some general input here.

Speakers are LS50 Wireless II with 2 KC62 subs. I'm also considering a pair of LS60s to replace the LS50 Wireless II's. Listening position is about 3.5 meters from speakers.



View attachment 506956View attachment 506956

We need more information. Are the outside edges of your diagram all walls, or do some of the blank expansed open onto other rooms? It would help if you drew lines that correspond to walls along the perimeter of your diagram.

 

[Ogoript]

Thanks for replying. Yes outside of the sketch are all walls. The thicker dark lines are walls to the ceiling that are inside the overall room. Here is an example of the "bump out" section and the kitchen area. Its really one big room.

 

[JPA]

Ok. Yes, you need to take the entire room into account when calculating room modes. Calculations will probably not match exactly what you measure, but they'll be in the ballpark. Is furniture rearranging a possiblity?

 

[Duke]

Are room modes the entire room or more concentrated in the listening area?

At bass frequencies, your speakers (and/or subwoofer) see the entire airspace, so the entire room, plus to some extent any other rooms that are open to your big room. So the amount of subwoofage required can be a lot more than you might expect if you were to consider "the listening area only" to be "the room".

 

[Ogoript]

Thanks for the replies. I have some ability to move furniture, but not much. I'm playing with speaker position and distance behind the speakers to the wall. Same with subwoofers. I'm not using any room correction and might consider one of the DIRAC options, but I'm not sure the best method to do that. Maybe an AVR used as a pre-amp.

 

[Flaesh]

do I need to be concerned with

The easiest and most useful approach is to measure what's happening.

 

[tmuikku]

Speakers near boundary and listener near boundary = maximal bass boost. Either EQ it down, or, move speakers, and/or the listener, further from the walls.
If you can bring your sofa much closer to TV and speakers, this would change how you perceive stereo sound quality as well, quite dramatically.

This is common issue in all living rooms: speakers have to be beside the TV and sofa has to be at the other side of the room for practical reasons.
So, if you cannot break this arrangement then best compromise is just the temporary chair to a better listening spot, when ever you feel like it.

This is easy fast test:
Take some portable chair that is easy to move, and try at which distance from speakers the bass sounds balanced, and what kind of stereo sound you like. Then mark the spot down somehow, you can always go sit there when you want "better sound". If your knees are ok you can skip the chair, and just stay on two foot and move yourself and listen in realtime! Stay equidistant to both speakers, just move closer and further to find at which distance you feel the sound is best. Toe-in the speakers if needed, move them closer / further apart if needed, as you go and experiment with the listening distance. Truth is, in my experience, that in normal living rooms good listening distance is about 2m or less. Unfortunately, this might position you middle of the room, which likely has quite severe bass dip, so move even closer. Also, experiment with sub position, if possible. You can put your sub to the listener seat (good spot you already found), and then crawl around and try to listen where bass is most balancd. Now, move the sub there.

 

[Elkerton]

My 2¢ worth: I would try to move the left sub to the right of the couch, pull the left speaker away from the corner some to reduce the reflections off the tv (or cover it when doing dedicated listening), and exchange the positions of the right sub and satellite. The subs' placements should help to control the room's standing waves a little, though their being at mid points would help, but is not possible.

 

[Flaesh]

 

[Elkerton]

Faesh,
Would you rerun the simulation with the sub placement I suggest in the post above yours please?

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

The main problem I have with this kind of set up, in the past when I was forced into it, was there is one full side wall and no sidewall on the other side. That makes getting the sound stage correct a bit of a problem.

One suggestion. Move the mains out a bit, toe the left in more, toe the right SLIGHTLY to the right. Make the right side of the couch the main listening position... or a chair you slide in place a bit further forward. If you get your sound moving more to the right, that open space can help. You'll pick up a bit more in terms of reflections from the right and lower the reflections from the left.

I've had luck with this kind of set up before. It is also my current vintage "secondary couch watch sportsball on mute and listen to music and likely nap" set up. Speakers parallel, raked toward the open side.

The corner between the couch and chair could work for a corner set up, but that would likely get in the way of the (assuming here) sliding door or window.

I do suggest you try to get the speakers right WITHOUT the subs in play to start. Then work the subs in, using whatever method you like (sub crawl, simulation and testing, whatever). Nail down the mains, work the subs to fit what they do in the best spot you can find.

 

[Flaesh]

So? RoomSim itself doesn't require any prior knowledge; you can experiment with it on your own. However, it's much more useful to use it in conjunction with verification using real-world measurements.

 

[Ogoript]

View attachment 507130

So? RoomSim itself doesn't require any prior knowledge; you can experiment with it on your own. However, it's much more useful to use it in conjunction with verification using real-world measurements.

I wasn't the one asking (I'm the OP), but thank you. I will do some measurements at some point and report back. Thanks again.