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Room modes

RoA

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I have recently moved and, unfortunately, have a b***h of a listening space which also has to double as living room. I guess I was, until now, one of the lucky ones never really having experienced serious room problems and the ones that did pose an issue or two I managed to sort with judicious placement of either speakers or/and listening position. Although I am not a proponent of room DSP I have so far resisted to use a lot of it, usually ending up switching it off as I find it can easily impact on the whole rather than just the isolated problem.

Back to the room, it's small, approx 4 x 4 square meters. My listening position is very limited in flexibility (sofa at one length of room but I am considering an IKEA Poang chair which I can move). I am experiencing a hugely annoying bass resonance which is around 45hz to 80hz (according to the WiiM's measurement results). I have tried my WiiM Pro Plus' (basic) room DSP and whilst it does somehow subdue the peak it also impacts way too much on the rest. Using the measurement but this time using the Wiim's EQ it is also possible to somewhat bring it down but again, I just didn't like it.

More drastic measures were required. So I started to stuff the ports of my Mission 752 Freedom's one by one (4 on each enclosure) and it did help but also started to impact on dynamics. This box was not designed as an IB so I unplugged 2 of the ports (rear and one on the front). This was the balance for the speaker to sound still dynamic and shift the peak slightly, making it a smidgen less obtrusive. Still, I was not happy.

I have experienced with stuffing the speakers, controlling internal reflections previously. I've ordered some stuffing wool and went about to add this to the cabinets. I have heard that these Missions had an internal standing wave issue of sorts but the stuffing, even liberally applied did not make a noticeable difference. What it did do is make one hell of a mess in my living room and the inside of the speakers!

I was completely deflated. I just never had an issue like this. Short of putting it all on ebay and as a last resort, I thought I'd add some sort of internal bracing to see if that would make a difference. Because I only had access through the driver cut out's and because I wanted horizontal bracing both front to back and side to side I ordered some extending furniture legs, the sort that you can screw in/out. I also got some double sided, thick adhesive pads and super glue. I then filled the legs with miracle sponges I had, inserted the legs, extended them tightly with pads each end and superglued the thread. Finally I covered both 'braces' with acoustic foam.

The result was that bass is now tighter than with any of the actions I took beforehand and I am applying no room EQ. There is still a faint hint when the speakers aggravate the room mode but it is, subjectively, perhaps 80% less severe.

I could add bass traps in-room but because of the size required this is just not feasible. I have to share this with my partner.

I appreciate now how good my sound was in previous environments and feel for you if you have a similar problem. Please excuse the rather bare room, we're not quite moved in yet and I have the added fun (!) of finding a place to put my headphone station.

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Your room is a problem, changing gear won't solve that. But corner placement is a good idea, imo.

Narrow bass PEQs should affect less of the sound overall, and might help in a way that you can tolerate. I use REW, and Wiim, but I don't use the Wiim room correction. What are the Q factors that Wiim gives for correction? Try making those narrower in your problematic areas, it's worth a try.

You migth try a slighlty asymmetrical toe for the speakers, to break up the coherence of reflections. That might knock the problem down a slight bit.

I'm just guessing here, but that's what I would try. And my goal would be to reduce the problem, not fix it. Because square rooms are a pain.
 
Do you have before and after measurements?

Is there any possibility the speakers were damaged in the move?
 
As Pareto Pragmatic pointed out, placing your speakers in the corner of the room is not optimal. Did you consider moving them beside the tv?

FWIW, my experience with room EQ in the bass region has been extremely positive. However, one needs a way to measure and properly set the filters for each of the two channels (e.g., a UMIK-1 and REW). The UMIK-1 (+ a tripod) are quite cheap and straightforward to use with REW. I’d give that a try before investing heavily in new equipment.
 
As Pareto Pragmatic pointed out, placing your speakers in the corner of the room is not optimal. Did you consider moving them beside the tv?

FWIW, my experience with room EQ in the bass region has been extremely positive. However, one needs a way to measure and properly set the filters for each of the two channels (e.g., a UMIK-1 and REW). The UMIK-1 (+ a tripod) are quite cheap and straightforward to use with REW. I’d give that a try before investing heavily in new equipment.
I would agree with you but for some reason that seems to be the best speaker placement option, perhaps due to where I sit. I have not tried REW unfortunately.
 
Do you have before and after measurements?

Is there any possibility the speakers were damaged in the move?
I guess there is a possibility. I guess that would likely be to the cabinet rather than crossover? I have not seen any cabinet damage but that does not mean its not there ... .
 
#squareroomssuck

Get REW and a microphone and enjoy the new rabbit hole into which you have fallen.

I have a square room. It's never going to flatten out. At least not without cardioid.
 
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The result was that bass is now tighter than with any of the actions I took beforehand and I am applying no room EQ. There is still a faint hint when the speakers aggravate the room mode but it is, subjectively, perhaps 80% less severe.
There is no way that the side panels of the cabinets did resonate that low (45-80Hz). So your furniture leg bracing may have solved another problem that nevertheless did help anyway.
A square room is not optimal and the speakers that far into a corner will probably show this even more pronounced.
I would recommend to use the room simulation tool in REW to play around with speaker/listening positions to find a combination that keeps the problems in check and then test this in your room.
REW.png

With a mic you could even measure in comparison and then you might apply EQ on top (if you like).
 
I tried the WiiM room correction but TBH it was pretty crappy. I’d run it multiple times and get wildly different results.

If you don’t want to go all-out with REW and a mic, and you have an iOS device, I’ve found the HouseCurve app to be really useful. The free version will let you measure. I paid the $20 (or whatever it was) for the full version which will generate EQ parameters (which you can then put into the WiiM). It has improved the sound in my room a ton - probably not as much as if I leaned how to use REW, but good enough for me.
 
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I have nothing helpful but I did like your idea for adding bracing to an existing cabinet.
 
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Back to the room, it's small, approx 4 x 4 square meters. My listening position is very limited in flexibility (sofa at one length of room but I am considering an IKEA Poang chair which I can move). I am experiencing a hugely annoying bass resonance which is around 45hz to 80hz (according to the WiiM's measurement results).

Welcome to square room problems. My room is similar -- 4m x 4m x 3m -- squarish room.

This is how my gigantic room mode looks like: +20dB @ 44Hz.


room mode.png


Look at the mountain ringing in the chart below.... confirm can get headache from it!
(No amount of passive room treatment is gonna fix that - in my opinion...)

waterfall mode.png


After EQ.
(You can still see the ringing ridges in the chart, but at a much lower level.)

waterfall EQ.png


If your room is indeed 4m x 4m square, you may want to try this PEQ in your WiiM.
  • Fc= 44Hz
  • Q= 7
  • Level= -20dB

See if the above PEQ works for you or not... try it...

.
 
Welcome to square room problems. My room is similar -- 4m x 4m x 3m -- squarish room.

This is how my gigantic room mode looks like: +20dB @ 44Hz.


View attachment 445979

Look at the mountain ringing in the chart below.... confirm can get headache from it!
(No amount of passive room treatment is gonna fix that - in my opinion...)

View attachment 445980

After EQ.
(You can still see the ringing ridges in the chart, but at a much lower level.)

View attachment 445981

If your room is indeed 4m x 4m square, you may want to try this PEQ in your WiiM.
  • Fc= 44Hz
  • Q= 7
  • Level= -20dB

See if the above PEQ works for you or not... try it...

.
Will do, thank you.
 
(No amount of passive room treatment is gonna fix that - in my opinion...)
No, but if you sit close to the middle of the room the peak will only be all around you ;-)
If you COULD choose positions freely, something like this comes out of the simulation (0.25 absorption of the walls).
EDIT: And as can be seen, the lowest peaks do not change with position (much) so can be EQed quite well.
Above 80Hz it gets more complicated, and small changes make a difference. I
wouldn't trust the simulation too much there anyway as the absorption with furniture is different than just a wall coefficient.
square.png
square_.png
 
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Thanks Olieb. That would a solution and I have considered a chair I can move and which does not take up too much space
 
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