Room correction with REW no difference, Newbie.

[AmeliaBuns]

Hi, I just got my UMIK-1 and I also did notice that it's extremely quiet when using it as a normal mic, I can only hear a noise when I'm very loud (yes it's set to 100%) but regardless I set to measure my speakers and I got this result after averaging some slight variations.

After seeing the huge gains of the suggested EQ I expected a large difference but was sad that the main difference is a tiny bit of extra bass (in an annoying way) and some changed in lower ends. I can't tell too much of a difference however.

I use a Kanto Ora + Kanto SUB8 under my desk with the kantos clamped to the back of my desk with DIY 3D printed mounts on a brass tube (empty inside, should probably buy some sand sometimes to fill them with it). I mainly listen to instrumental music which had almost no differences. I also listen to metal sometimes (not much these days) and I noticed light differences there but it wasn't a ton of differences.

now I wish I saved the money I spent for future IN-5/IN-8 (probably in-5 as I don't listen to music loudly at all) or more important things.

Any thoughts? What can I improve?

 

[DWPress]

Post your .MDAT here and you'll get better support. Looks pretty terrible at the moment.

edit: just noted the y scale on your graph, maybe not so bad - we usually show SPL graphs 50-100dB.

 

[AmeliaBuns]

Post your .MDAT here and you'll get better support. Looks pretty terrible at the moment.

edit: just noted the y scale on your graph, maybe not so bad - we usually show SPL graphs 50-100dB.

Here's the files!
I also included one for when I sit on the couch for fun, without post-eq changes, named COUCHPOTATO. I didn't save the one after EQ it seems :\

 

[DWPress]

This is what I see. Assuming "mid pos" means right position?
You have a sub? F3 seems to be around 50Hz
These are raw measurements before any EQ was done?
What software/hardware will be hosting the EQ you make?

I added a gentle sloping room curve for reference, maybe try playing with positioning the left speaker toe in or out, distance behind to wall and sidewall, etc.

 

[AmeliaBuns]

This is what I see. Assuming "mid pos" means right position?
You have a sub? F3 seems to be around 50Hz
These are raw measurements before any EQ was done?
What software/hardware will be hosting the EQ you make?

I added a gentle sloping room curve for reference, maybe try playing with positioning the left speaker toe in or out, distance behind to wall and sidewall, etc.


View attachment 551313

Yes, the guide I used suggested moving the mic up and down and left and right a bit and averaging the results.
yes I have a sub 8. What's F3? I'm an idiot, is that the third resonant frequency? the sub is right under my desk maybe it's why it's like that.
the measurements you see are all raw before any EQ. I use equalizer APO.

I'm a bit concerned since I can't too much of a difference, if this is really for me!
I am tempted to add some poron (meant for keyboards) between my 3d printed clamp and my speakers too. or buy the stands kanto sells, but those rest on your desk and I put my oscilloscope right under my speakers.

After a break I came to compare them and I do see a difference, but not necessary a good one. the new EQ Almost sounds like someone put foam around my speakers and reduced the "echo" but that also makes it sound like there's no soundstage and depht? and it loses some clarity.

Do you also think my microphone could be broken? The tip doesn't look like the photos online and it's recessed. I also barely hear anything when using it as a mic unless I should right next to it.

 

[DWPress]

Microphone seems to be working and you loaded a calibration file for it, who made iit? Your sub seems to be useless in its current configuration. F3 is where bass roll off is -3dB, you essentially have no sub bass.

Before you proceed, finalize all your speaker mounting. Filling column with sand will help a little, just make sure the mounts are solid and dampened against vibrations.

Then Move the left speaker around a bit and re-measure, the right speaker is more likely to sound good with EQ and if you can better match the frequency response between the two EQ will have better results if you're going fully up to 20Khz. It's the left speaker placement from MLP that's the biggest problem. Maybe a pic of your listening position?

You're using PEQ filters in APO generated from REW? Not always easy or intuitive for new users and it is very easy to make filters that sound like crap but cheers to you for making the effort. Here's a link to my recent near field desktop set up so you can see what's possible with a little effort.

 

[Keith_W]

I am tempted to add some poron (meant for keyboards)

"Poron" is for "gentlemanly relaxation".

 

[AmeliaBuns]

Microphone seems to be working and you loaded a calibration file for it, who made iit? Your sub seems to be useless in its current configuration. F3 is where bass roll off is -3dB, you essentially have no sub bass.

Before you proceed, finalize all your speaker mounting. Filling column with sand will help a little, just make sure the mounts are solid and dampened against vibrations.

Then Move the left speaker around a bit and re-measure, the right speaker is more likely to sound good with EQ and if you can better match the frequency response between the two EQ will have better results if you're going fully up to 20Khz. It's the left speaker placement from MLP that's the biggest problem. Maybe a pic of your listening position?

You're using PEQ filters in APO generated from REW? Not always easy or intuitive for new users and it is very easy to make filters that sound like crap but cheers to you for making the effort. Here's a link to my recent near field desktop set up so you can see what's possible with a little effort.

it's a UMIK-1, my fear comes from the DB rating seeming very inaccurate and me not being able to record audio with it unless I'm talking very loudly right into it. I'll have to wait before doing sand, I'll try doing another set with only right speaker and then only right? my sub is under my desk maybe that's why?
i'm not sure where else I could put it tbh.
What's MLP?
What makes you think it's the left that's the problem?This is my setup, not very good but I live in a small place... I usually have two fabric plants on top of the speakers and a giant mousepad under my keyboard and mouse but right now I was cleaning my desk.

the sub on the left was hot garbage and I bought it used, I'm selling it, it barely produced anything above 80hz (at least according to my ears)

 

[Mr. Widget]

What's MLP?

Main Listening Position

In home theaters it is often called the "Money Seat".

 

[DWPress]

it's a UMIK-1, my fear comes from the DB rating seeming very inaccurate and me not being able to record audio with it unless I'm talking very loudly right into it. I'll have to wait before doing sand, I'll try doing another set with only right speaker and then only right? my sub is under my desk maybe that's why?
i'm not sure where else I could put it tbh.

Umik should be fine unless you suspect a shady after-market seller.

As I have said twice now, it is your left speaker that is causing problems, try moving it's position or move the dock from in front of it - nearby hard reflections can be detrimental including the desk, wall behind the speakers, etc. Try to make the left speaker response look more like the right channel which is doing pretty good.

Maybe try turning up the volume of your sub? As I said before, it's not contributing in any meaningful way at the moment.

 

[AmeliaBuns]

Umik should be fine unless you suspect a shady after-market seller.

As I have said twice now, it is your left speaker that is causing problems, try moving it's position or move the dock from in front of it - nearby hard reflections can be detrimental including the desk, wall behind the speakers, etc. Try to make the left speaker response look more like the right channel which is doing pretty good.

Maybe try turning up the volume of your sub? As I said before, it's not contributing in any meaningful way at the moment.

It's already too loud for me tbh. I got it from SOLEN. I'll try again later. I'm not sure what I can do to my left speaker as I'm out of space tbh.
I'm just curious how you found out it's my left speaker. That's why I asked.

 

[Keith_W]

I'm just curious how you found out it's my left speaker. That's why I asked.

I would like to know, too.

That's his full set of measurements from both files. I do not see any individual left and right measurements.

 

[DWPress]

That's his full set of measurements from both files. I do not see any individual left and right measurements.

This is what I asked:
This is what I see. Assuming "mid pos" means right position?

This is what he replied:
yes, the guide I used suggested moving the mic up and down and left and right a bit and averaging the results.

So I assumed there was at least a false positive. There's a reason I didn't pursue a PHD, I don't like uneducated students. He's all yours Keith.

 

[AmeliaBuns]

Oh yes those are position adjustments!
Here's the files for the new measurement I did, I also moved my sub a bit, it's strange, when I see the mini overview of the sweep in the measure bit my sub frequnecies are clearly much more elevated than the rest but it shows up as less in the final measurements the bass is already too much, I tried turning the bass up or even adjusting the frequency limit hoping to reduce some of the peaks but it dind't help a ton...

I'm worried about my neighbours with my sub turned higher...
I attached the new measurements. Right only and 2 left only.

PS: A few of the measurement smight not be labeled correctly because Im forgetful, but funny how two back to back measurements were very different in the sub region...

 

[AmeliaBuns]

Sorry the files didn't upload as it was too big it seems...

Download best attempt33 regret finale.zip | LimeWire

Download best attempt33 regret finale.zip on LimeWire

limewire.com

here's the link to the new measurements I talked about. the bass region always seems so random and different even back to back.

 

[AmeliaBuns]

UPDATE: I turned out my sub only to realize the reason I hate having my sub up is my room resonating like hell at 60hz, the issue the eq was trying to sub, with my sub up the EQ makes a big difference and reduces the awful resonance on my desk and my house doesn't feel like a club from the outside... This is so bad that I'm debating returning the sub because at low volumes I lose detail around 100hz~ but without it my mids and lows are muddy because kanto is working around and it feels very unimpressive.

with the eq it's a lot better but I still feel like I am choosing between detail or my house thumping unless I maybe put my sub in the middle of my room :/

I am on a bit of a budget, any suggestions?

 

[AmeliaBuns]

The setup is MUCH better now after listening to the advice here to turn the sub up, then countering the huge 18db peak at 63hz~.
HOLY moly tho 18db?!!! is there a non-eq way to deal with that? I have -20dB in my EQ there now and although it's much different it's still going to benefit from help LOL

 

[Keith_W]

Please read the book in my sig to learn how to take and interpret measurements.

If you have taken so many measurements that you can't upload them, you need to cull your measurements. After I removed all the duplicates, I was left with these 3:

The names of the measurements don't make sense. If you forgot what you measured, delete those measurements and take them again, and LABEL THEM PROPERLY.

None of the measurements have a timing reference. You mention a sub, but I don't see a sub in there. All your measurements are rolling off at about 55Hz. You did not indicate what you are EQ'ing. And finally, all the measurements in the MDAT you posted look nothing like your last post:

As you can see, all of them roll off at 55Hz. Your last measurement shows some bass extension down to 20Hz. These are clearly not the same set of measurements.

I don't know what you want us to say. If you have a specific question, go ahead and ask. We can tell you what measurement you need to take.

 

[AmeliaBuns]

I was referring to my second set of measurement I didn't upload. I still hear some uncomfortable frequencies in the sub but I can't see much in the measurement?
My sub is connected to my Kanto Ora so I can't treat it separately very easily. I had 3 measurements, one without eq, one with the eq and one with the eq and a few adjustments/fine tunings to make it look flatter.


I don't know what a timing reference is or used for, I'll google it and check it out! I'll also give that book a read when i ahve free time, I'm a student but I study physics therefore it seems like it'd be beneficial to me a little to know more about waves/audio anyways. My only complaint now is that I can sometimes "hear" my sub like it's not part of the music or homogonous with my speakers.

I did a few now as my old measurements were messy (tho this time labeled properly I think? the setup I use is awkward)

I was just curious if these measurements and my eq looks good? that's why I posted them, I also wanted to update the thread as why I was having the issues you mentioned, as you said, turning up the sub helped, and the reason I hated turning it up turned out to be a huge 64hz peak. There's still a slight roll-off but it seems more typical of a subwoofer. I mainly purchased the subwoofer because I was promised higher quality mids/lows as the kanto themselves are free to produce them without "distraction" or distortion as they have less work to do. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but basically I was told a sub increased the sound quality of the mids/lows because the speakers do less work.

PS: I do use she/her and I'm not a guy. (people keep referring to me as he).

 

[kemmler3D]

I still hear some uncomfortable frequencies in the sub but I can't see much in the measurement?

Take a look at the spectrogram or waterfall views in REW, they show you decay times.

Most of the time when there is a big peak like that, there's also extra decay time, so the bass can seem "boomy" (or whatever word you choose) even if the measurement is flat. There are ways to deal with this beyond EQ, but they are basically: Room treatments (costly, bulky, tricky) or advanced DSP like Dirac ART (complex, expensive).

The green line looks OK in your measurements but the dip around 100hz seems to have come out of nowhere, and the roll-off below 50hz doesn't say "sub" to me...

The thing about a sub improving the mids isn't BS, but it may not be night-and-day. The low-mids and mids should get a little better because the speaker isn't moving (and distorting) as much trying to reproduce frequencies it's not well suited for. When harmonic distortion from bass frequencies happens, the harmonics tend to overlap those frequencies. There is also Doppler Distortion... I would say google it if you're interested, an animation will make it much clearer than I can here. Aside from that, EQ can help more by eliminating masking effects from the extra bass flying around the room. In that sense it doesn't actually make the mids better, but you can hear them better.

PS: I do use she/her and I'm not a guy. (people keep referring to me as he).

As for this, welcome to ASR and apologies on behalf of the crowd here... please don't take it personally. We don't get a lot of non-dudes who also let that fact be known around here. Audio is a bizarrely male-dominated space, ASR included, so the default assumption of new folks being guys sometimes gets made with no evidence either way. Even with a username like "AmeliaBuns".