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Rogue Audio Sphinx V3 Review (Tube Amplifier)

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I appreciate the charts but not listening to it and not even touching the phono stage is disrespectful
 

DonH56

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I appreciate the charts but not listening to it and not even touching the phono stage is disrespectful

I can get "inadequate" if you are interested in the phono stage's performance, but listening tests are subjective and strongly influenced by the associated equipment and (especially) room and speakers. Listening tests are done by a myriad of other folk so why replicate that here? It is one man's opinion, using one man's system... I don't get how just reporting the measurements, which is the focus of ASR, is "disrespectful".
 
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Xulonn

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I appreciate the charts but not listening to it and not even touching the phono stage is disrespectful

Am I correct in understanding that you will be making a generous contribution to ASR so that Amir can hire an assistant and satisfy every whim and desire of vinylphiles for testing their inherently noisy and distorted medium, especially since he barely has time to handle his already large workload of modern, low distortion audio? /snark

[Discaimer: I don't hate vinyl - I enjoyed my LPs for many years - and even 78RPM discs in my youth. I just value accurate, transparent reproduction of music much, much more these days.]
 

aslan7

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Am I correct in understanding that you will be making a generous contribution to ASR so that Amir can hire an assistant and satisfy every whim and desire of vinylphiles for testing their inherently noisy and distorted medium, especially since he barely has time to handle his already large workload of modern, low distortion audio? /snark

[Discaimer: I don't hate vinyl - I enjoyed my LPs for many years - and even 78RPM discs in my youth. I just value accurate, transparent reproduction of music much, much more these days.]

That is very funny. But the people who buy Rogue are into phono stages and I believe the one on the model reviewed has significant upgrades (not that I care).
 

egellings

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As for runaway output pentodes, I have integrators (a quad op amp IC) on each of the 4 output tubes (small cathode sense R's) on my home-made tube monoblocks to monitor DC cathode current. Their outputs are OR'ed together and if any one of them registers a long term excessive DC current based on the integrators' time constant, a power relay shuts off the amplifier. It has worked for me twice in about 6 years or so. Curiously, powering the offending amp back up had all 4 tubes behaving, so I am at a loss as to why a tube would red-plate once but not a second time. Went over the offending amp with a fine-toothed comb and found nothing in it that could have caused the tube to red-plate. At least the mechanism worked, though.
 

welsh

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Well they appeared fairly suddenly.
Jean Hiraga, who presumably had neither the kit nor expertise to measure hifi started off the subjective audio phase and it caught on fairly quickly and has resisted all attempts to point out the folly of it for a long time.
It certainly suits reviewers because they don't need any test equipment or technical expertise to write a review ang generally they and their readers have bought into the narrative.
I don't expect the approach to go back to the way it was 50 years ago.
When clearing out my father’s house I found a stack of 1970s Gramophone magazines. The amplifier reviews were an eye-opener compared with the current subjectivist nonsense. The amps were exhaustively bench-tested to check whether or not the claimed specs were achieved. Only when a large anomaly was detected were the components actually listened to…
 

charleski

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When clearing out my father’s house I found a stack of 1970s Gramophone magazines. The amplifier reviews were an eye-opener compared with the current subjectivist nonsense. The amps were exhaustively bench-tested to check whether or not the claimed specs were achieved. Only when a large anomaly was detected were the components actually listened to…
Gramophone was actually my first experience of hifi reviews. We lived close to a university music school so I would end up sitting in the library waiting for my sister to finish her ballet class, and these were the most technical stuff I could find to read. :cool:
 

Frank Dernie

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When clearing out my father’s house I found a stack of 1970s Gramophone magazines. The amplifier reviews were an eye-opener compared with the current subjectivist nonsense. The amps were exhaustively bench-tested to check whether or not the claimed specs were achieved. Only when a large anomaly was detected were the components actually listened to…
I subscribed to The Gramophone back then, and HiFi News. I kept the magazines for years but eventually sent them for recycling.
HiFi as a hobby was totally objective at first, as it should be of course, the objective is known and therefore there is a clear target to aim for.
Measurements tell you how close you are getting.
 

fmplayer

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"MRI showed anatomic joint disorders and the radiologist said I'd never be able to play tennis any more based on the images (read measurements)."

Unfortunately your radiologist can only base there assessment on experience, a case of informed subjectivity. Only numbers are measurements, not images. And even numbers, unless backed up by rigorous peered reviewed science, get only faulty interpretations.
A MRI scan is an objective fact, contrary to my (subjective) symptoms and mind you, radiologist training aims at assigning a diagnosis in case of specific radiological features. According to the sports physician (and incidentally me because I'm a former MD), the disorders were there. And lucky me, for the time being, my symptoms are not on par with the disorders. No faulty interpretation whatsoever.

My point was to show that facts are facts, but feelings are feelings, and the latters are often more valued than the formers. We are human beings, not machines. I don't care if IT IS hot outside (objective temperature) when I FEEL frozen (subjective temperature) because of fever for instance.

Long story short : facts do not always translate to feelings, and people often value feelings ... aren't you ?
 

Frank Dernie

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A MRI scan is an objective fact, contrary to my (subjective) symptoms and mind you, radiologist training aims at assigning a diagnosis in case of specific radiological features. According to the sports physician (and incidentally me because I'm a former MD), the disorders were there. And lucky me, for the time being, my symptoms are not on par with the disorders. No faulty interpretation whatsoever.

My point was to show that facts are facts, but feelings are feelings, and the latters are often more valued than the formers. We are human beings, not machines. I don't care if IT IS hot outside (objective temperature) when I FEEL frozen (subjective temperature) because of fever for instance.

Long story short : facts do not always translate to feelings, and people often value feelings ... aren't you ?
Medical "facts" are nuanced by their complexity and variability - like all Biology as a science.
Physics facts, in the case of HiFi are neither complex nor nuanced, not only simple but, apart from marketing nothing much actually new for many years..
Trying to see any sort of similarity between the interpretations of an MRI scan and measurements of HiFi equipment is completely inappropriate IMO.
 

Wes

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Let's recall it's just a matter of (objective) measurements vs (subjective) feelings.
Let me exemplify it another way:
Some years ago, I had some knee trouble. MRI showed anatomic joint disorders and the radiologist said I'd never be able to play tennis any more based on the images (read measurements). Before prescribing some physio and medication, the sports physician reminded me that radiologists only cure images, not people nor symptoms. After the physiotherapy was finished I started playing serious tennis again since then without (subjective) trouble.
Conclusion is that feelings may win against facts.
Same for audio stuff. People don't listen to distortion/noise but to sound/music. Measurements are crappy but they like it ? so be it. I'm happy for them. Same for stellar measuring stuff which some may dislike.
If some stuff pleases you whatever reason, go for it, and if not don't. Just admit that what pleases you may not please someone else

huh - my conclusion is that whatever neurochemicals make up grit and determination may win over interpretations of facts by an expert
 

aslan7

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A MRI scan is an objective fact, contrary to my (subjective) symptoms and mind you, radiologist training aims at assigning a diagnosis in case of specific radiological features. According to the sports physician (and incidentally me because I'm a former MD), the disorders were there. And lucky me, for the time being, my symptoms are not on par with the disorders. No faulty interpretation whatsoever.

My point was to show that facts are facts, but feelings are feelings, and the latters are often more valued than the formers. We are human beings, not machines. I don't care if IT IS hot outside (objective temperature) when I FEEL frozen (subjective temperature) because of fever for instance.

Long story short : facts do not always translate to feelings, and people often value feelings ... aren't you ?
Your point is well taken but the narrative may reflect the sorry state of medicine. I was told I would never run again because of knee damage twenty years ago and have logged many miles since. The orthopedist was incompetent. To me feeling is synonymous with delusion. Organized religion banks on feelings and we all know where that gets us. As the great Hume famously said, “Does it contain any experimental reasoning, concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to flames for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.”
 

Wes

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I got bad feelings for Hume
 

fmplayer

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Your point is well taken but the narrative may reflect the sorry state of medicine. I was told I would never run again because of knee damage twenty years ago and have logged many miles since. The orthopedist was incompetent. To me feeling is synonymous with delusion. Organized religion banks on feelings and we all know where that gets us. As the great Hume famously said, “Does it contain any experimental reasoning, concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to flames for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.”
Sadly, medicine is all but an exact science. In my case, nobody (lucky me) was incompetent, most competent being the physio who gave me all the tools to prevent further trouble. But that's not the point. Feeling may be delusional in case of psychiatric disease, but most of the time, it's just our personal, purely subjective, individual perception of reality as human beings. Take pain for instance: painful stimulus may be calibrated, sensation varies from person to person. Same for listening impressions. Of course, statistics help us determine a medium result, but statistics are just statistics: they show a trend, they are not a rule.
 

fmplayer

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Medical "facts" are nuanced by their complexity and variability - like all Biology as a science.
Physics facts, in the case of HiFi are neither complex nor nuanced, not only simple but, apart from marketing nothing much actually new for many years..
Trying to see any sort of similarity between the interpretations of an MRI scan and measurements of HiFi equipment is completely inappropriate IMO.
I guess you assume that measurements are 100% correlated with the subjective perception of the measured device, but IMO it's not the case. It's probably more of a statistical distribution. Similarly, a condition which always translates to scans may not always translate to symptoms. Here lies the similarity
 

raif71

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I subscribed to The Gramophone back then, and HiFi News. I kept the magazines for years but eventually sent them for recycling.
HiFi as a hobby was totally objective at first, as it should be of course, the objective is known and therefore there is a clear target to aim for.
Measurements tell you how close you are getting.
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/gramophone-s-digital-edition-and-archive

1625271780704.png


Most stuff gone digital now....
 

Frank Dernie

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I guess you assume that measurements are 100% correlated with the subjective perception of the measured device, but IMO it's not the case. It's probably more of a statistical distribution. Similarly, a condition which always translates to scans may not always translate to symptoms. Here lies the similarity
No.
Measurements are 100% correlated with the accuracy, that is to say fidelity, of the device.
Since HiFi stands for High Fidelity measurements can ascertain whether a piece of equipment is HiFi or not.

Whether an individual may or may not prefer (one's subjective perception) accurate reproduction has nothing to do with it.

There are several ways to colour the sound to taste if you don't favour the sound of recordings being accurately reproduced, some more expensive than others.

The problem is that the sound quality of recordings varies by far more than the variation in sound quality of properly engineered hifi equipment IME and genuine high fidelity doesn't necessarily favour all recordings.
 

aslan7

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Sadly, medicine is all but an exact science. In my case, nobody (lucky me) was incompetent, most competent being the physio who gave me all the tools to prevent further trouble. But that's not the point. Feeling may be delusional in case of psychiatric disease, but most of the time, it's just our personal, purely subjective, individual perception of reality as human beings. Take pain for instance: painful stimulus may be calibrated, sensation varies from person to person. Same for listening impressions. Of course, statistics help us determine a medium result, but statistics are just statistics: they show a trend, they are not a rule.
I say in jest, but somewhat seriously, many men have feelings for specific women that are highly subjective in origin. Then over 50% of them end up in divorce court with all the accompanying miseries. I do hope that at least 75% of audiophiles are pleased with the purchases they made based on subjective criteria, and probably the percentage is higher.
 

aslan7

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Ken1951

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No.
Measurements are 100% correlated with the accuracy, that is to say fidelity, of the device.
Since HiFi stands for High Fidelity measurements can ascertain whether a piece of equipment is HiFi or not.

Whether an individual may or may not prefer (one's subjective perception) accurate reproduction has nothing to do with it.

There are several ways to colour the sound to taste if you don't favour the sound of recordings being accurately reproduced, some more expensive than others.

The problem is that the sound quality of recordings varies by far more than the variation in sound quality of properly engineered hifi equipment IME and genuine high fidelity doesn't necessarily favour all recordings.
Bingo! Yahtzee! Very succinctly and accurately (IMHO) put.
 
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