Rockwool and breathing and alternative or help

[Bliman]

Have you tried akoestiekwinkel.nl? They're not cheap, but the products do work very well.

No I haven't bought from there yet.

 

[RHO]

No I haven't bought from there yet.

From my limited experience with them, I woud buy there again. Good service, nicely delivered at home.

 

[Bliman]

Am I correct in saying these alternatives don't differ much in how they perform? At another forum I also found this as a good alternative and maybe even better and cheaper according to the forum https://www.someacustica.com/products/artnovion-foamart-agl/ But I don't see anyone selling this close to Belgium.
Does Basotect have any negative points?

 

[abdo123]

Does Basotect have any negative points?

Only the price really.

 

[abdo123]

Question for the fellow Dutch/Belgian ASR members in this thread: do you know of any local suppliers of building kits (bouwpaketten) for frames? I know it's a relatively simple DIY job, but in my situation that's not really an option.

Someone shared a link here of a company that sells both foam and frames separately. Can’t tell which one exactly atm.

 

[Zoomer]

Someone shared a link here of a company that sells both foam and frames separately. Can’t tell which one exactly atm.

Thanks, found it: https://www.don-audio.com/Ben-Alder-wood-frame-for-wall-mount-1200x620mm

 

[Kundroc]

I found https://www.der-schaumstoffdiscounter.de/ to be a good and economic source for bare Basotect panels. They will send to most European countries. Another, similar source is https://www.schaumstofflager.de/, yet I have no personal experience with them.

Caruso Isobond can be sourced from the manufacturer directly and it may be an alternative to retailers if you need bigger quantities. There is no web shop; but you can send them an e-mail https://caruso-ebersdorf.de/

 

[Zoomer]

Can I achieve an effective air gap with the panel frame mounted flush with the wall and it's interior space consisting of a layer of absorbing material + air gap? Or does the air gap need to be open to the rest of the room, not enclosed by the frame?

 

[Kundroc]

Can I achieve an effective air gap with the panel frame mounted flush with the wall and it's interior space consisting of a layer of absorbing material + air gap? Or does the air gap need to be open to the rest of the room, not enclosed by the frame?

In my understanding, there is no penalty to the efficiency of an absorber with enclosure for sound waves arriving perpendicular to the surface of it. The enclosure will partially block sound waves arriving at an angle with an increasing loss of efficiency the bigger the angle. Even without enclosure, there will be a certain loss for the same situation.
For optimal performance with/without an enclosure, preference should be given to have the absorber perpendicular to the direction of the incoming sound waves.

 

[Zoomer]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing, I hope his sketch will clarify things.

Left: air gap as part of and enclosed by the frame
Right: air gap open

Is there a difference in the efficiency of the air gap?

 

[Flaesh]

we have Ewonawool, which might as well be Caruso Isobond

Fiber thickness affects GFR ..

 

[howard416]

Yeah, nah... don't use exposed rockwool;

Behavior of rock wool in lungs after exposure by nasal inhalation in rats

To evaluate the safety of rock wool (RW fibers), we examined the biopersistence of a RW sample in the lungs of rats, based on the changes of fiber number and fiber size in terms of length and width, by a nose-only inhalation exposure study. Twenty male ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Rockwood causes asthma - Gearspace.com

I built some basic broadband absorbers using Rockwool a few months ago, they did the job really well but caused me to develop bad asthma. I removed the

gearspace.com

JSmith

Based on the recognition of this limitation, the present study seems to suggest the safety of RW fibers. At present we are conducting a long-term nasal exposure inhalation experiment to examine the pathological effects of RW, such as the long-term persistence of RW in the lungs, carcinogenicity, and pulmonary fibrosis, and plan to assess the safety of RW further, taking the results of the present study also into consideration.

 

[sully45]

Has anyone tried out the recycled cotton stuff for bass absorbers? This 'bass buster' stuff claims a .95 absorption coefficient at 125 hz.

I guess I have no proof available saying that's safer, but I would think so unless the fire retardants are a problem.

Echo Eliminator: Superior Acousitcal Panels | Acoustical Surfaces

Experience acoustic perfection with our superior echo eliminator panels! Enhance sound quality and eliminate echoes in any space effortlessly today.

www.acousticalsurfaces.com

 

[MCH]

I figured this might be the right place to ask this.
Any opinions on these batotect corners?

Akustik-Dreieck

Akustik-Absorber, Dreieck in Decke/Wand-Ecke, Akustik-Absorber,Melaminharzschaum aus Basotect

www.der-schaumstoffdiscounter.de

Let's face it, I don't live alone and this is the only discrete enough alternative I have found for corner absorbers that might not trigger a "no way!" from family members.

PS: Regarding the previous discussion, when it comes to foam it is not only the material or the density but also and importantly the structure of the foam (i.e. open cell vs closed cell...)

 

[Vanx]

I bought IsoBond to avoid issues with rockwool, but unfortunately discovered the following..

These panels do release a lot of airborne plastic fibers (that are worse than organic rockwool fibers, as they get trapped and do not dissolve in the lungs).

The plus of IsoBond is avoiding VOC, formaldehyde etc. vs the rockwool, but I think I'll have to wrap them in thin plastic nonetheless... as the Camira Cara fabric is not sufficient in avoiding micro plastics to get out (plus, ironically, being the cara fabric made of plastic fibers, I noticed it also looses some strands

)

 

[abdo123]

I bought IsoBond to avoid issues with rockwool, but unfortunately discovered the following..

These panels do release a lot of airborne plastic fibers (that are worse than organic rockwool fibers, as they get trapped and do not dissolve in the lungs).

The plus of IsoBond is avoiding VOC, formaldehyde etc. vs the rockwool, but I think I'll have to wrap them in thin plastic nonetheless... as the Camira Cara fabric is not sufficient in avoiding micro plastics to get out (plus, ironically, being the cara fabric made of plastic fibers, I noticed it also looses some strands

)

Basotect doesn’t release anything imo.

It’s like a block of cheese compared to all the foams i used in my life.

 

[Kundroc]

These panels do release a lot of airborne plastic fibers (that are worse than organic rockwool fibers, as they get trapped and do not dissolve in the lungs).

The plus of IsoBond is avoiding VOC, formaldehyde etc. vs the rockwool, but I think I'll have to wrap them in thin plastic nonetheless... as the Camira Cara fabric is not sufficient in avoiding micro plastics to get out (plus, ironically, being the cara fabric made of plastic fibers, I noticed it also looses some strands

)

Fibers from IsoBond don't break into small - microscopic- particles in contrast to Rockwool. This property avoids respiratory irritations from IsoBond. See here (in German): Caruso-Iso Bond

If you want to avoid fibers sticking through the fabric you are covering your panels with, try wrapping them with acoustic fleece. Or you may install the panels into a frame and wrap the frame with fabric to avoid direct contact between the two.

 

[dasdoing]

my pet panels are brazilian, but I can confirm that the stufff that comes off over time is not near fine enough to cause problems.

 

[FeddyLost]

These panels do release a lot of airborne plastic fibers (that are worse than organic rockwool fibers, as they get trapped and do not dissolve in the lungs).

If you vacuum clean your room regularly, it's not a problem, because these fibers are bigger than rockwool fibers and don't break into small glass particles. Also, from my experience, these sheets release fibers only when you physically work with them (cut, fix, bend or stick somewhere).
Anyway, I don't use polyesther sheets without wood wool panels in front and rockwool without PE film.
Just to be safe.

 

[Buldogger]

I have also been looking around for a few months to make some acoustic improvements in my living room. All rockwool-based panels immediately dropped out because of health hazards. I have over 30cm sitting as roof insulation, safely encapsulated, however in my living room I don't want to take any risks.

That's why I started looking at basotect anyway. Now have an order running in Germany from schaumstoffdiscounter for a total of twenty-five panels of 10cm basotect. All panels will be sprayed in a RAL colours of my walls and ceiling. I'm also going to glue several panels into basstraps 20cm thick-I know it could be better, but hey, it's still a living room, of course. Everything is going to be fixed to the walls with a small airgap of 3cm, to get a bit more out of the panels.

I have also ordered a pile of 3cm panels, to quit down the techniques of my sump under my aquarium-hopefully that's enough(my moving bed does make a lot of noise...).

The guys there were super helpful and even offered to send me some samples of the ral colours between I was in doubt.