RME UFX III Audio Interface review

[GearNostalgia]

Hi guys.
Could we please stop this controversy here ?

@GearNostalgia made his point.
So let's stop this here.

As suggested, this might be a suggestion for improvement on RME forum.
I doubt you'll see a lot of buy-in (It's not a problem under Windows, to begin with. I know because I personally used an RME interface for Zoom calls on Windows).
But you're free to try.

I think you are correct. Neither Apple nor RME is very well known for listening to user input. As for me I am considering swapping out RME for Apogee or UAD since I am on Apple and operate with small and medium clients in advertising and media where it is important to be flexible with talents and project managers. I detest bullish fan boy behaviour to push workarounds of strange product designs.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

I think you are correct. Neither Apple nor RME is very well known for listing to user input. As for me I am considering swapping out RME for Apogee or UAD since I am on Apple and operate with small and medium clients in advertising and media where it is important to be flexible with talents and project managers. I detest bullish fan boy behaviour to push workarounds of strange product designs.

You are welcome to detest whatever you like. But don't call me or the others on this forum "bullshit* fan boys" when the behavioral issue was on your side, and your tone of voice was inappropriate for a forum dedicated to analysis, inquiry, and instruction. [Tagging @AdamG as forum moderator]

Let me share my real-word example of being seriously disappointed with an RME product, and needing to instead go buy a product from some other vendor:

I have several S/PDIF devices (e.g., WiiM, CD Player, Waxwing, laptop) that I want to be able to mix together into a combined output channel. I found a great deal on an RME Digiface USB that supports 4 S/PDIF in and 4 S/PDIF out; which would allow me to then take care of mixing these S/PDIF audio streams. But after purchasing, I discovered it does not support sample rate conversion; and in fact, it can't even handle resynching (i.e., buffer queue with regeneration) when the S/PDIF inputs are already at the same sample rate. As a result, I can only attach 1 of my devices instead of 4 devices. In other words, that RME product is completely useless for my situation; and my only option is to purchase separate S/PDIF re-clockers that can accept an external clock source. (Analogous to your need to re-wire since you don't want to use the TotalMix software that exactly solves your issue.)

What was the problem? Was the issue that RME designed their product for a professional audio environment where digital audio devices support an external clock source... something everybody in the industry knows and has been working around for quite a few decades now? No. As much as I wish that wasn't the case, RME's product is appropriately designed for the target industry segment. [And as noted by @ozonepaul, channel assignment routing is handled in the DAW in a professional audio studio.]

So what was the real problem? I bought a product designed for professional audio use cases, not knowing that consumer audio devices would not be compatible. So I asked a bunch of questions seeking knowledge, and then gracefully accepted that the RME Digiface USB is not a workable product for my situation.

I did not call the people who answered my questions "bullshit fan boys" when they told me that I cannot use the Digiface USB with more than 1 consumer audio device. And I did not accuse RME of "holding to stubborn ways" by failing to create a product that would work for my situation (i.e., support the consumer audio equivalents of an Apple computer).

And while I think it is an oversight of RME to not have a product—similar to the Digiface USB—that provides clock resynch (or even full sample rate conversation) for 3+ S/PDIF inputs, I am not going to publicly denigrate them by asking in what alternative universe does a small company making a utility add on product get to ignore the fact that nearly 100% of audio devices with S/PDIF outputs do not support an external clock input (e.g., CD / D VD / Blu-ray players, audio streamers, etc.). That simply is not the market they choose to address; though I will send a polite request asking them to consider adding support for non-professional digital audio devices.

* EDIT: I slightly misquoted the author, who actually used the word "bullish". However, that wasn't the most offensive part of the phrase.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

professional audio environment where digital audio devices support an external clock source

Yes, Indeed! In a multi-studio and multi-building media centre, master clocks are critical to avoid clicks when switching live between facilities! It's not really a "workaround" so much as an essential feature of a complex media environment.

TV got there way ahead of digital audio (it's not needed in analogue audio of course!). Frame and line synch need to be the same between all cameras and outputs to stop the picture rolling when cutting between different camera feeds, so when digital audio and then digital video came in, major media organisations were entirely prepared.

 

[AdamG]

I detest bullish fan boy behaviour

We detest personal insults and belittling of others. Please refrain from insulting people here. Especially those actually trying to understand your situation, requirements and expectations. You are getting free technical advice and assistance. People are trying to help you out and you drop a “Fanboy” insult. Repeat performances will not be acceptable. Dial back your aggression and stop placing blame on others. Communicate with respect and dignity or don’t post.

Let’s all please move on..Happy Saturday. Today is Meatball Saturday.

 

[GearNostalgia]

You are welcome to detest whatever you like. But don't call me or the others on this forum "bullshit* fan boys" when the behavioral issue was on your side, and your tone of voice was inappropriate for a forum dedicated to analysis, inquiry, and instruction. [Tagging @AdamG as forum moderator]


* EDIT: I slightly misquoted the author, who actually used the word "bullish". However, that wasn't the most offensive part of the phrase.

Thank you that was fair to edit. You saw your misread and corrected it. What I dislike is the general inclination for people to take stance and dig into a position and defending a product based on their own situation and bully other users calling them unprofessional for pointing out situations where its design limits its use. This was not a personal remark at any single person, but a statement against that kind of attitude that is present on forums in general.

For me doing port assignments in such a way that I have to switch things up to answer a call is bad. And a thing that is particular to RME in my experience. It is RMEs choice to have inputs arranged differently across the their models. My first RME was the Fireface 400 which filled my needs at the time, but I have to swap when firewire was not supported on my new mac. I decided to stay with RME since it hade worked well on previous PC. I picked the 802 that seemed to have what I needed and more. Everything was just fine up til 2000 when we got the pandemic. People did not want to meet and everybody wanted to do things at home and Zoom other offline meetings was a must to stay in business for me. That is when I discovered that I could not just use my studio setup right away. I had to do it on my phone and the quality was very bad and hard to follow conversations. This was brought up at RME forums, but obviously ignored since I see that their later ufx models did not change port numbers either. I have no experience with the top tier och RME products, maybe it is possible to use a madi-unit and assign the first channel to a Mic12 unit. But as it is now I do not advice others that is operating a small/medium studio for clients in music/media/commercials to get the 80X/UFX lines if they operate like me on a smallish budget with one computer.

 

[Rja4000]

This was brought up at RME forums, but obviously ignored since I see that their later ufx models did not change port numbers either.

Obviously, they didn't ignore you, since they provided an easy workaround more than 2 years ago.

Mac M1 and no system mic input from FireFace802 (Page 1) — FireWire & USB series — RME User Forum

Mac M1 and no system mic input from FireFace802 (Page 1) — FireWire & USB series — RME User Forum —

forum.rme-audio.de

As explained, it's not a RME design fault - there is nowhere a rule saying microphone inputs have to be on channel 1/2 - but a limitation of Apple OS aggravated by a limitation of some applications.

On windows, such an issue doesn't exist.
With other apps, such an issue doesn't exist.

I don't see why RME - which is putting high value on supporting long term users, so try not to modify a unit design unless they release something drastically new- would change their hardware design, annoying multiple upgrading users, to please your very niche requirement.

I guess you may admit that your requirement here is very specific and not very common ?
The small number of comments on RME forum being a confirmation, if need be.

You stated your point.
I think everybody understands it.
As everybody understands this won't change on the 802/UFX series.
(The UCX II has microphone Inputs on channel 1/2)

 

[GearNostalgia]

Obviously, they didn't ignore you, since they provided an easy workaround more than 2 years ago.

I don't see why RME - which is putting high value on supporting long term users, so try not to modify a unit design unless they release something drastically new- would change their hardware design, annoying multiple upgrading users, to please your very niche requirement.

Ignore is an overstatement, but they did not care enough in 10 years to make the simple adjustment to set mic inputs on 1-4 for all their devices instead of this random positioning.

In objective terms. I don't see why you, RME and a lot of others insists that there is some higher value in not just putting it on the first port as on most of all devices on the market and also a lot of their own devices. The 80X/UFX line have a lot of good things going for it for small/medium size studio setups and this makes it less useful for us operating these businesses. Calling us niche, unprofessional and force feeding us workarounds is not helpful. I know the workarounds and I have hardwired mic11-12 to analog 1-2 for this purpose since 2000.

 

[Rja4000]

I don't see why you, RME and a lot of others insists that there is some higher value in not just putting it on the first port

That's not the point.
I guess, from now on, they'll have mic inputs on channels 1/2.
(All their recent small form factor interfaces do)

But they didn't think about it when they designed the 800/802/UFX a number of years ago.
(Zoom didn't exist at the time, you know)

And now, changing that would impact users that just want to upgrade from early models to the last version. So they won't change it. Since they value long term users.
Which is very respectable, don't you think ?

That mindset is also why we get the benefits of 9 band parametric EQ on older hardware, as an example.



And, by the way, they cared enough about you to provide a workaround, explain how to implement it, and even propose to support through a call for free.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

.... "calling them unprofessional for pointing out situations where its design limits its use..."

Just to make sure you had not misunderstood. The references to "professional studio recording" did not imply that you were unprofessional, that you are not a professional (in your own field), or that your request was unprofessional.

That was a reference to a category of audio equipment and uses cases. Think Abby Road or Sun Studios for recording studios. Or, the sound boards and systems at a Bruce Springsteen concert. Or, people who are working from a home studio using similar caliber of equipment for recording, mixing, and producing music. [Edit: and as @Rja4000 noted, RME has even adjusted their newer equipment releases that are designed for use in smaller studios and home office settings so that they are compatible with Apple's limitation; and software remains able to resolve the issue for older devices.]

The term professional audio will be in contrast to consumer audio equipment. Or even "prosumer" devices that are more affordable for a home studio use. In my case, much of my home office audio system is professional audio grade equipment. But my biggest challenges are that I'm intermixing it with consumer audio equipment; and I am using it in contexts that it was not originally intended for.

 

[GearNostalgia]

Just to make sure you had not misunderstood. The references to "professional studio recording" did not imply that you were unprofessional, that you are not a professional (in your own field), or that your request was unprofessional.

That was a reference to a category of audio equipment and uses cases. Think Abby Road or Sun Studios for recording studios. Or, the sound boards and systems at a Bruce Springsteen concert. Or, people who are working from a home studio using similar caliber of equipment for recording, mixing, and producing music. [Edit: and as @Rja4000 noted, RME has even adjusted their newer equipment releases that are designed for use in smaller studios and home office settings so that they are compatible with Apple's limitation; and software remains able to resolve the issue for older devices.]

The term professional audio will be in contrast to consumer audio equipment. Or even "prosumer" devices that are more affordable for a home studio use. In my case, much of my home office audio system is professional audio grade equipment. But my biggest challenges are that I'm intermixing it with consumer audio equipment; and I am using it in contexts that it was not originally intended for.

Not sure what context RME picture for their products. Just going from the people I know operating in the small/medium size productions studions for multimedia/games/advertising it would not surprice if that makes up a larger amount than top end Abbey Road studios for those shopping for devices in the 2000-4000 bracket. Most people I know/work with have Apollos and Mac in their setups. Maybe small things like this is why?

 

[gabo4au]

Not sure what context RME picture for their products. Just going from the people I know operating in the small/medium size productions studions for multimedia/games/advertising it would not surprice if that makes up a larger amount than top end Abbey Road studios for those shopping for devices in the 2000-4000 bracket. Most people I know/work with have Apollos and Mac in their setups. Maybe small things like this is why?

Geez man, give it a rest. Perhaps you just have the wrong interface for a "small/medium sized multimedia/gaming/advertising studio." The Babyface FS supports 24 channels and has mic inputs on channels 1 and 2, the Fireface UCX II supports 40 channels and has mic inputs on channels 1 and 2.

As has been previously stated... Studios requiring the flagship product, which supports up to 188 channels probably don't use their DAW computer for zoom calls!

Send it back, buy an Apollo or a smaller RME unit or something else.

 

[Jimbob54]

I think we need to move on from the mic channel discussion now please .