RME Babyface Pro FS Portable Interface Review

[Earfonia]

In fact the BF Pro does have TRS Inst input jacks with R shorted to ground.

Ooopss
Yea i just measured using multimeter, R pin connected to ground

@Bern so you better use proper TRS to TS / XLR to TS cable as described in the Rane table in my previous post.

And @Atanasi suggestion is also good, to use easy to get TRS to 2x RCA with RCA to 1/4" adapter will do the job as well. Just use one of the RCA output and leave the other RCA channel disconnected.

@LTig is correct, I think we don't consider Yamaha MG10XU as digital mixer. It is an analog mixer with built-in USB audio interface.

 

[Bern]

In fact the BF Pro does have TRS Inst input jacks with R shorted to ground.

So, MC_RME, does that mean that one can use either balanced or unbalanced cables coming from a balanced source into the Babyface line inputs, that it amounts to the same either way?

OK. I just saw Earfonia's response that "better use proper TRS to TS / XLR to TS cable as described in the Rane table in my previous post." Now, I'm definitely not very knowledgeable cable-wise, but doesn't that amount to the same as using a TS cable?

 

[Bern]

Like @LTig said, it's actually an analog mixer (with digital effects) and an ADC-DAC part to send to/receive from the computer via USB.
There is no digital domain on each channel, but keep the same way to work : fader (rotary here) at 0, then gain as needed. Then you need to keep room between you Master on the mixer and the BF (it's here that you enter the digital domain)

Grooved... I'm obviously confused about the gain staging here, between the mixer's fader/knob and Master and the BF gain level. How do they interrelate? You write "fader (rotary here) at 0, then gain as needed." Where is that gain monitored? On the mixer strip? And then what does "keep room between you Master on the mixer and the BF" actually means?

 

[Bern]

Not sure how this works in Logic, but in Reaper and Mixbus, you can setup a separate monitor (output) channel that you can route to a different hardware output, in this case 3/4 being the headphone output of the Babyface. Solo/mute to flavour. Surely something similar is possible in Logic.

Magchiel... 3/4 is the headphone output on the BF. I don't follow that. How is "3/4" the phones output? There are instrument/line inputs 3 and 4 on the BF, but how does that relate to the phones being 3 and 4. I don't understand.

 

[MC_RME]

Obviously output 1/2 is the rear XLR. And all this TRS/TS discussion depends not on the Babyface input, but the properties of the source balanced output. Some can be used unbalanced by shorting pin 3, others start smoking then.

 

[magchiel]

In any case, I still haven't figured out how to switch between listening to a mix on my monitors and on my headphones separately. I take it that one can do that in DAW Mode. The mix plays on my monitors fine, but I can't find how to have the phones work, though I played with all the Assign options of the Control Room. In Logic, for all I know, there shouldn't be anything special to do.

Magchiel... 3/4 is the headphone output on the BF. I don't follow that. How is "3/4" the phones output? There are instrument/line inputs 3 and 4 on the BF, but how does that relate to the phones being 3 and 4. I don't understand.

As I understand, you want to use TotalMix in DAW mode from Logic - bypassing all routing options of TotalMix - but want playback of the 2bus/master channel in Logic on your monitors and on your headphones.

Your monitors I'm assuming are on the XLR output 1/2. Your headphones I'm assuming are connected to the headphone output, which are separate outputs, labeled 3/4 (at least they are on my regular BF Pro). These *outputs* and their labeling are completely separate from the XLR (1/2) and TS (3/4) *inputs*.

If you don't want to use the submix of TotalMix, you have to tell Logic to route the audio to 3/4 (headphone) in addition or instead of 1/2 (XLR). How this works exactly in Logic I can't tell you as I have found it the most unintuitive DAW ever conceived, but in Reaper and Mixbus changing this routing, either on the master or with a separate bus, is trivial.

But, as other have suggested: this is exactly what TotalMix is designed to solve for you and what you have paid for. In fact, it's the method I use.

 

[Bern]

As I understand, you want to use TotalMix in DAW mode from Logic - bypassing all routing options of TotalMix - but want playback of the 2bus/master channel in Logic on your monitors and on your headphones.

Your monitors I'm assuming are on the XLR output 1/2. Your headphones I'm assuming are connected to the headphone output, which are separate outputs, labeled 3/4 (at least they are on my regular BF Pro). These *outputs* and their labeling are completely separate from the XLR (1/2) and TS (3/4) *inputs*.

If you don't want to use the submix of TotalMix, you have to tell Logic to route the audio to 3/4 (headphone) in addition or instead of 1/2 (XLR). How this works exactly in Logic I can't tell you as I have found it the most unintuitive DAW ever conceived, but in Reaper and Mixbus changing this routing, either on the master or with a separate bus, is trivial.

But, as other have suggested: this is exactly what TotalMix is designed to solve for you and what you have paid for. In fact, it's the method I use.

Thanks for the reply, Magchiel. I finally got it to work, by chance, and what you write helps clarifying how it worked.

Looks like the key here was that the headphones outputs are labelled the same as the line-level inputs, namely 3/4 or 3 and 4. That's what confused me, and what explains that the phones started to work when I assigned the option "phone 1" in the Assign options to "AN 1/2" which then made the "PH 3/4" channel strip appear on the left where I could control the phones volume, while controlling the monitors volume separately with the Main fader in the Control Room.

I don't know if this is THE way it should be done in Totalmix to get those 2, the phones and monitors, running separately, yet that works.

 

[magchiel]

I don't know if this is THE way it should be done in Totalmix to get those 2, the phones and monitors, running separately, yet that works.

If it works for you I'd say that's THE way to do it for you. But for reference, my control room settings are:
- Main output to AN 1/2
- Phones 1 to PH 3/4

As a workflow thing: I use a passive volume control (currently ESI MoCo but not to happy about the switches in these so would probably look elsewhere, e.g. Mackie Big Knob) to control the level of the monitors and the dial on the BF to control the headphone volume.

 

[Bern]

If it works for you I'd say that's THE way to do it for you. But for reference, my control room settings are:
- Main output to AN 1/2
- Phones 1 to PH 3/4

As a workflow thing: I use a passive volume control (currently ESI MoCo but not to happy about the switches in these so would probably look elsewhere, e.g. Mackie Big Knob) to control the level of the monitors and the dial on the BF to control the headphone volume.

View attachment 168134

Magchiel, can you tell me how you got that Control Room layout, exactly, how did you precisely assigned those two? And how did you get to have "headphones" and "monitors" written on top of these 2?

Interesting idea to get a Big Knob. Thanks for the input.

 

[Tom_D]

@MC_RME Obviously output 1/2 is the rear XLR. And all this TRS/TS discussion depends not on the Babyface input, but the properties of the source balanced output. Some can be used unbalanced by shorting pin 3, others start smoking then.

@MC_RME In fact the BF Pro does have TRS Inst input jacks with R shorted to ground.

I am looking to use a standalone microphone preamp with the babyface pro FS (BAE 1073 dmp). This is a transformer-output preamp with a balanced XLR output. If I were to use a balanced XLR cable with a barrel adapter (neutrik XLR > TRS balanced adapter) and have the babyface short the ring to ground inside the interface, is there any reason why you think this shouldn't be OK? I did read that the balanced XLR inputs can handle line-level signals, but was slightly off put by the fact that I can't lock out phantom power, so I am a bit afraid of accidentally engaging 48V while the preamp is connected.

Thanks for your help - TD

 

[MC_RME]

I did read that the balanced XLR inputs can handle line-level signals, but was slightly off put by the fact that I can't lock out phantom power

Please explain that. There is no problem to turn +48 on or off at the BF Pro. The preamp will not pass 48V to the Babyface (unless it is broken), but even then it is no problem. So what is the issue here?

 

[Tom_D]

Please explain that. There is no problem to turn +48 on or off at the BF Pro. The preamp will not pass 48V to the Babyface (unless it is broken), but even then it is no problem. So what is the issue here?

Hi sorry if it wasn't clear. The signal chain would be...

Microphone > external preamp input (with 48v from the external preamp powering the microphone) > external preamp output into RME BF PRO FS xlr input set for line-level operation.

What I meant in my previous post regarding the babyface pro fs and locking out p48 is that I can't enter a purely "line level" mode on the BF pro xlr inputs where there would be no chance of accidentally activating 48v on the bf pro and sending the 48v to the output of the external preamp where it is not expecting to see that voltage. Hopefully that makes it clearer

Since I cannot completely prevent p48 from accidentally being transmitted from the BF pro to the output of the external preamp (maybe I'm being overly paranoid here?), that's why I was looking at using the output of the preamp with analog inputs 3+4 on the RME BF Pro FS with an XLR > TRS adapter, where the RME interface will short the ring to ground.

@MC_RME When you wrote this...

Obviously output 1/2 is the rear XLR. And all this TRS/TS discussion depends not on the Babyface input, but the properties of the source balanced output. Some can be used unbalanced by shorting pin 3, others start smoking then.

It had me worried about using such a connection. But other readings I have done online since then suggest that because my preamp's output is transformer balanced, then it should be OK to connect the transformer-balanced output to the unbalanced inputs of the BF pro by shorting the inverting signal to ground (where the short occurs inside the BF Pro FS connector). Is my understanding correct?

Thanks

TD

 

[MC_RME]

You wrote that preamp has a transformer balanced output. In that case you don't have to worry at all, neither about pin 3 shorted nor 48 V.

 

[Tom_D]

You wrote that preamp has a transformer balanced output. In that case you don't have to worry at all, neither about pin 3 shorted nor 48 V.

Sounds good - Thanks for your help

 

[Bern]

In fact the BF Pro does have TRS Inst input jacks with R shorted to ground.

MC_RME, I'll be doing a recording of my trio again soon, and I can see that I'm still confused about which cables to use going into the BF instrument/line 3/inputs.

The 2 sources—a Yamaha mixer and a Bose S1—are balanced. So, going into 3 and 4, can I use either TRS to TRS cables, TRS to TS cables or TS to TS cables? Or one is best while the other two (or one of them) are to be avoided?

Thanks.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Ideally, TRS --> TS with R not being connected (cable stock: coaxial type). (With a merely impedance-balanced output, TS --> TS would be exactly equivalent. Check device specs and/or block diagrams.) And don't be too surprised if you run into ground loop issues, it is an unbalanced connection after all and the S1 Pro at least appears to be IEC Class I. If XLR inputs 1/2 are already tied up otherwise, you may have a problem. An external converter with ADAT or SPDIF output may be needed then (and chances are you'd want to sync the clocking to it as well), or, well, another interface with more balanced (line) inputs to begin with.

You may still be able to make everything work by reshuffling connections, but you'll pretty much need to have a plan of the ground / earth connections around the unbalanced interconnect (computer power supply, mixer, S1, potential non-mic sources on inputs 1/2). A ground loop buster (line isolator) like the trusty Behringer HD400 or similar may end up coming in super handy... probably the least expensive way of getting the situation under control. Just make sure that the number of ground connections to the interface does not drop to zero either. (Otherwise you may end up with hum on a guitar or bass if that were to be plugged into 3/4. You always want the signal ground potential on such an instrument to agree with your body's potential, or else capacitive coupling between you and the internal wiring may introduce hum.)

You can probably tell why the "all balanced connections and every device grounded" approach is so popular in setups of any complexity. At least devices only need to conform to AES48-2005.

 

[Bern]

Ideally, TRS --> TS with R not being connected (cable stock: coaxial type). And don't be too surprised if you run into ground loop issues, it is an unbalanced connection after all and the S1 at least appears to be IEC Class I. If XLR inputs 1/2 are already tied up otherwise, you may have a problem. An external converter with ADAT or SPDIF output may be needed then (and chances are you'd want to sync the clocking to it as well).

Thanks for the response, AnalogSteph. When you write "...with R not being connected..", are you saying that not all TRS to TS are like that? If so, how can I verify if the TRS/TS cables I have, have their "R not being connected"?

The XLR inputs wil indeed be in use. I'll see how it goes—we're doing that for ourselves at this point, so getting more gear to have this work better is not an option, for now anyhow, yet it's good to know about using an external converter., whatever that happens to be.

PS: Right, I'm way more a musician than someone with much audio knowledge.

 

[L5730]

...
how can I verify if the TRS/TS cables I have, have their "R not being connected"?
...

Unscrew the ends, and look to see what wires are soldered.
Or, if you have a multimeter, even a super cheap one, just use the continuity test. The ring at one end might be floating (not connected to anything) or it might be connected to ground (the sleeve) at either the same end (a short bridge wire) or at the other end soldered to the same point as the sleeve-sleeve ground wire.

 

[BeerBear]

Review by Julian Krause, ESS ADC/DAC version:

 

[Bern]

Hi all.

I was recording in Logic a session of a trio I play in, using the BPFS mics and lines inputs coupled with an ADAT 8 pres unit. I play guitar in the trio, and I wanted to record the guitar into input 3 and 4, blending both its internal pickup ( going into input 3 ) and a Rode NT5 mic to add more of its natural sound ( going into an external preamp into input 4 ). So far, so good.

But then, I also needed to be amplified to match the volume of the 2 other instruments when we play. The obvious solution was to use one of the XLR outputs of the BPFS—which we didn't need—going into a Bose S1 I have. But I just couldn't find a way to have ONLY either the pickup or the mic input of my guitar coming out of the BFPS output. I tried everything I could think of, but all inputs/tracks kept coming out of it.

I understand that it is normal that all inputs of the BPFS are coming out of the outputs, but there must be a way in TotalMix to ouput a SINGLE input, in this case my guitar input. Since there are "submixes" that can be created in TotalMix, I take it that it must possible. Or there's an even better, simpler way to do that.

Any help would be appreciated. I have to find a way to do this, for that trio and other projects. Thanks.