RME ADI2 PRO set up assistance with Auto-Ref oddity

[Sparky]

Hi all,

I have posted a fair few posts in the past regarding the set-up of my 8341AWM's with subwoofers so I guess one more post won't do any harm!

As mentioned previously, I have recently purchased a pair of Arendal 1723 1S subwoofers to go with my Genelec 8341AWM's and am really happy with the combination.
I have been having problems getting the gain structure right (devices far too loud with volume set on RME to -50 outputting well over 75dB) until I realised , thanks to a post made a while back that the GLM set contains a "group sensitivity" setting which I have now made use of by setting it to -35 which has really helped me manage my sound levels!

Unfortunately, this has revealed another problem I wasn't aware of until I actioned this new setting and that is the "auto ref" feature of the RME....it no longer works the way it should do.
I followed some advice posted in the RME forums and set the RME to -20 and set my Genelecs group sensitivity level to a position I am comfortable with and it sounded fantastic......until I turned the volume up that is!
As soon as the volume in the RME touches -19.5, there is a click an +13 is revealed on the display but this has the effect of muffling the volume from the Genelecs.
The SPL also reduces along with the muffled sound yet, the more I increase the volume the worse it gets.
Not only that but, because my subs are using the Phones3/4 output (volumes main 1/2 & phones 3/4 linked and both outputs using Auto Ref), the power to the subs continues to rise yet the mains 1/2 stays much much lower and muffled.

Is there a setting I have missed or something? Should I disable Auto-Ref?

Any thoughts guys??

Mike

 

[unpluggged]

I would connect the ADI-2 Pro to the speakers digitally. They in any case convert analog input to digital.

 

[Sparky]

I would connect the ADI-2 Pro to the speakers digitally. They in any case convert analog input to digital.

Hi,

I should've said really but they are connected via the AES/EBU breakout cable so are digitally fed.
The subs are fed from Phones 3/4 via a TRS/XLR adapter and fed a mono signal.

I'm more perplexed at the behaviour of the RME when you increase the volume above -20.
It's very odd. I used to own a standard RME ADI2 a couple of years ago and it didn't behave like this.

 

[unpluggged]

I should've said really but they are connected via the AES/EBU breakout cable so are digitally fed.

Then autoref makes no sense. The digital output level reflects the Main Out digital post-fader level. Therefore, when you enable it, the output gets attenuated each time you cross 0 dBFS at your current analog ref level.

To illustrate this, suppose we go from -20 to -19.5 dBr. This is the threshold where +4 dBu ref level switches to +13 dBu. In order to compensate the change in analog reference level, the DSP then applies attenuation to the digital signal (in this case, by 8.5 dB), which then output directly through the AES/EBU interface. That's why your volume gets lower when going from -20 dBr to -19.5 dBr.

So you should disable the autoref feature in your case.

 

[Sparky]

Then autoref makes no sense. The digital output level reflects the Main Out digital post-fader level. Therefore, when you enable it, the output gets attenuated each time you cross 0 dBFS at your current analog ref level.

To illustrate this, suppose we go from -20 to -19.5 dBr. This is the threshold where +4 dBu ref level switches to +13 dBu. In order to compensate the change in analog reference level, the DSP then applies attenuation to the digital signal (in this case, by 8.5 dB), which then output directly through the AES/EBU interface. That's why your volume gets lower when going from -20 dBr to -19.5 dBr.

So you should disable the autoref feature in your case.

You have made my tiny mind implode a bit there!!

I wish I had your knowledge I really do as I feel my questions are absolutely ridiculous when it comes to the capabilities of the equipment I own!!
Ok, I'll switch off Auto-Ref and see where that leads me....
I might actually be able to start using the "Loudness" feature of my RME without it going all weird on me.

Thanks for the tip!!

Can I ask you, does me having to reduce the group sensitivity within the Genelec SAM monitors reduce or degrade the signal??
having the sensitivity set to zero is incredibly loud as I wrote in my firs post but is that how it's meant to be??

 

[Sparky]

So when I turn off Auto-Ref, I am able to select from 4 different dBu settings - +4 , +13, +19 and +24. Which one of those is correct for me and why??
What is the significance of it??

 

[unpluggged]

Can I ask you, does me having to reduce the group sensitivity within the Genelec SAM monitors reduce or degrade the signal??

I'm not familiar with SAM settings and their implementation, but as a rule, if you don't hear any noise (from diminished SNR/DR), then there is nothing to worry about

So when I turn off Auto-Ref, I am able to select from 4 different dBu settings - +4 , +13, +19 and +24. Which one of those is correct for me and why??
What is the significance of it??

This setting controls the analog output level referenced to 0 dB volume setting. When you don't use the analog out, it does not make any difference, so you can leave it at any value.

 

[Sparky]

I'm not familiar with SAM settings and their implementation, but as a rule, if you don't hear any noise (from diminished SNR/DR), then there is nothing to worry about


This setting controls the analog output level referenced to 0 dB volume setting. When you don't use the analog out, it does not make any difference, so you can leave it at any value.

You are a legend my friend!

I was worrying about posting this question for fear of not being able to explain the situation in an understandable way but you had me pegged from the start.

I can finally start to get my system dialed in over the coming days/weeks but I now have a fantastic starting point to work from.

Thanks so much bud.

Mike.