RME ADI2 DAC FS. What is the right streamer to go with it. ?

[magchiel]

Late to this party.

I have acquired the RME ADI 2 FS. Pl suggest what would be the ideal streamer to go with it. ?

Really, just whatever streamer has the features that fit your use case and has USB or S/PDIF outputs (Toslink is fine if you never exceed 192kHz sample rate).

For me personally, I'm a longtime LMS/Lyrion user (new Lyrion Android app is great, made me ditch Squeeze Control after years) with a large local collection on my NAS, Qobuz, Spotify and Tunein in multiroom setup. I like it's open source and it has a lively development community that is maintaining plugins. As a renderer, I'm still happy with the Squeezbox Touch for as long as it keeps working (as it currently seems: forever).
RPi works great if you know your way around and like the tinkering/control. In another setup I've used Squeezelite and that will be my path when the SB Touch dies. Upmpdcli is great UPnP renderer with MPD (works well with e.g. a BubbleUPnP and Minimserver setup). Spotifyd turns it in Spotify connect endpoint. Moode is great, easily deployable combining those functions, but contains features I don't need (happy to configure things through SSH). That for me is the best part of the RPi: should you decide to switch solutions (e.g. MPD), you can repurpose the hardware. Newer Linux kernels shouldn´t limit you in using all channels in CC mode. If you don't know what all this means, consider skipping to the next option.
Wiim (as rightfully recommended above) is equally great if you want something turn key (for you or with someone you're sharing your home with). Everyone I know using it (partner, parents, neighbours) is really happy with it. Also plays nice with anything Apple in your pocket. Development seems still rapid enough, which would be my main consideration when choosing a proprietary streamer to ensure it stays current with integrations and security issues are patched in a timely fashion.
Should you have an existing streaming infrastructure setup e.g. BluSound, Sonos (yes..yes...) etc: use that.

Why don't RME just add a built in streamer

Because they provide the inputs to bring your own? Thankfully they didn't waste their efforts to integrate something that is as quickly obsolete as a streamer in a >1k€ (2k€) quality DAC(/ADC) that I expect to be able to last a decade or more. Some may perhaps consider this unnessecary complicated, but I like the separation of concerns with all the "smart" functions isolated in cheap components that I can swap out easily as tech progresses or enshitification requires one to move along (the same applies to software in e.g. TV's...). For an integrated solution, I'd say WiiM has you covered with the Pro Plus or Amp.

What about PEQ? Camila DSP? (update: yes, checking the docs now).

I EQ on my ADI-2/4 so room correction is applied to my record player as well. There may be some difference in EQ-filter quality with certain software. But CamillaDSP should be great and configuring in software may be more convenient than dialing it in using the physical interface, should you not be able to use the RME remote app (I have no trouble, or actually: I admittedly find manipulating the knobs on the ADI quite a satisfying experience).

I will try this method. There are now so many volume buttons. One on RME. Two wiim. Three preamp. Not including phone. Will try to see which combo gets the punch.

Do you need the preamp to switch other (analogue, HDMI, ...) inputs that you couldn't switch on the ADI? If not I'd eliminate it from the signal chain altogether and use the ADI as a pre and for volume control.
Otherwise setting WiiM to max/fixed volume (-1dBFS if you're concerned with intersample peaks) and RME to a level that matches your preamp's max input level (use a true RMS multimeter and pink noise to calibrate if it differs from the Ref levels configurable in the output settings of the ADI) then using your preamp to regulate volume, should give the optimum gain staging (lowest gain in the analogue domain, assuming it's an active preamp).
If you have the output Ref level of your ADI-2 fixed, I think it shouldn't be any difference between using the RME or the WiiM for volume control (both operating in the digital domain). But if you use AutoRef level (as I do with a lower gain / higher input power amp), regulating volume on the ADI2 should have the edge.

 

[Gibsonian]

I have the Wiim Ultra connected to my RME here. I have all my CDs on an SSD drive, which I connected via USB. It works absolutely flawlessly with the Wiim app. It is highly recommended!

Sound like a great way to go. Guessing I have about 1000 CD's. Do you know how big of an SSD drive would I need to get to load these and have room to grow?

 

[Nicoff]

Sound like a great way to go. Guessing I have about 1000 CD's. Do you know how big of an SSD drive would I need to get to load these and have room to grow?

You will need a 2 TB SSD assuming that you are compressing the files to FLAC or similar.

 

[Grotti]

You will need a 2 TB SSD assuming that you are compressing the files to FLAC or similar.

Assuming that a lossless flac file is about or a little more than half the size of the ripped CD file 1 TB should be sufficient.

 

[magchiel]

Sound like a great way to go. Guessing I have about 1000 CD's. Do you know how big of an SSD drive would I need to get to load these and have room to grow?

You will need a 2 TB SSD assuming that you are compressing the files to FLAC or similar.

Assuming FLAC and redbook, depending compression rates selected and achieved, about 350-500 MiB per CD. So for 1000 CDs a 512GB SSD should already get you in the neighbourhood for your current collection, excluding OS requirements and growth projection. But storage is not too expensive and SSDs can last a long time.

I'd just make sure to have a backup on a different medium (batch, type, vendor, technology and/or location, depending how paranoid you are) with all the effort that goes into ripping those CD's... So if budget is a concern, 2x 1TB would have my vote. Or use Hetzner Storage Box or similar if you want to be flexible and don't mind recurring costs.

 

[amper42]

I only have a 256GB Flash Drive on my RPi4 with Moode. I use hi-res and AIFF files. It's plenty. Typically, if you load all the music that you really enjoy that's enough. It's quality, not quantity in my library. If I don't listen to an album frequently I purge it for something else. I always have the CD if I change my mind. I have 10x more CD's than are on the flash drive but each album has to get me excited to make the cut to Moode.

Crazy large libraries add problems of their own. It's a self imposed problem based on being unable to decide what's best.

 

[Nicoff]

Something to keep in mind: After ripping your CD collection, you might find that the convenience of streaming leads you to stop buying physical CDs altogether. If that happens, you’ll only need enough storage for your existing library—roughly 400–600 GB for 1,000 CDs.

That said, a 1 TB drive should comfortably cover your current collection plus room for about 1,000 more CDs if you continue expanding.

 

[amper42]

Something to keep in mind: After ripping your CD collection, you might find that the convenience of streaming leads you to stop buying physical CDs altogether. If that happens, you’ll only need enough storage for your existing library—roughly 400–600 GB for 1,000 CDs.

That said, a 1 TB drive should comfortably cover your current collection plus room for about 1,000 more CDs if you continue expanding.

I have so many CD's that are just OK.... not great. Taste changes. What was once acceptable might now be marginal. If it doesn't pass the smell test why bother to rip it at all. In fact, I listen to a few tracks on Qobuz first to determine if I even want to bother getting out the CD.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Crazy large libraries add problems of their own. It's a self imposed problem based on being unable to decide what's best.

For that, I use the LMS "random selection" option that presents 50 albums to choose from. And then work through what I want to hear, and resent the selection of 50. I find that I wind up listening to older albums that are part of the random selection, which I otherwise would just scrolled past when browsing the full list.

 

[Ravi]

I mentioned earlier that I would go back home and set up the WiiM pro plus I did connect it with my pre amp with analogue out puts. It played very well. And I like the ease of the app. Very easy to navigate. I mostly use Apple Music and Spotify. The sound quality is impressive.
NXT I tried to connect the WiiM pro plus thru digital coax to RME 2 FS which is connected thru balanced xLR to the preamp.
I find that RME does provide noticeable differences. But. Nothing significantly vast improvement. If it’s WIim or RME I feel WiiM is using melody AKM chip is sweet. But RME. Is ESS sabre which is wide spectrum
If you are looking for low cost but meaningful streamer with built in AKM and app WiiM pro plus does not disappoint you at all.
RME is technical master but a great head phone amp. And also a good prosumer Hifi use. . You need to go thru and set up with it to fully master it. But in my case I use it as pure DAC. And I do compare music quality as these are played thru my parasound analogue inputs. If I had the WiiM pro plus earlier may be may be I would not have bought the RME.
Any views welcome. Thx.

 

[amper42]

I mentioned earlier that I would go back home and set up the WiiM pro plus I did connect it with my pre amp with analogue out puts. It played very well. And I like the ease of the app. Very easy to navigate. I mostly use Apple Music and Spotify. The sound quality is impressive.
NXT I tried to connect the WiiM pro plus thru digital coax to RME 2 FS which is connected thru balanced xLR to the preamp.
I find that RME does provide noticeable differences. But. Nothing significantly vast improvement. If it’s WIim or RME I feel WiiM is using melody AKM chip is sweet. But RME. Is ESS sabre which is wide spectrum
If you are looking for low cost but meaningful streamer with built in AKM and app WiiM pro plus does not disappoint you at all.
RME is technical master but a great head phone amp. And also a good prosumer Hifi use. . You need to go thru and set up with it to fully master it. But in my case I use it as pure DAC. And I do compare music quality as these are played thru my parasound analogue inputs. If I had the WiiM pro plus earlier may be may be I would not have bought the RME.
Any views welcome. Thx.

The Wiim is a toy compared to the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. However, if you don't setup the ADI-2 app and configure the Loudness controls to your liking you miss out on many of the best ADI-2 features.

ADI-2 Remote V 2.0 – we can't stop! (Page 1) — ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series — RME User Forum

ADI-2 Remote V 2.0 – we can't stop! (Page 1) — ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series — RME User Forum —

forum.rme-audio.de

If you are looking for a dumb DAC with standard features the Wiim will do, but if you want Loudness customization that engages the bass to sound just as dramatic at low volume levels as high the ADI-2 DAC is the tool of choice. It can make a big difference in the hands of someone familiar with the app. I can take a good speaker and make it sound fantastic with the ADI-2 DAC.

If you are focused on the chip manufacturer you miss what's important. I have RME ADI-2 units with AKM and ESS chipsets and they both sound the same. But, my Wiim doesn't offer the crazy great Loudness control and ADI-2 app for dialing in just the right sound. It makes a huge difference.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The Wiim is a toy compared to the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. However, if you don't setup the ADI-2 app and configure the Loudness controls to your liking you miss out on many of the best ADI-2 features.

ADI-2 Remote V 2.0 – we can't stop! (Page 1) — ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series — RME User Forum

ADI-2 Remote V 2.0 – we can't stop! (Page 1) — ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series — RME User Forum —

forum.rme-audio.de

If you are looking for a dumb DAC with standard features the Wiim will do, but if you want Loudness customization that engages the bass to sound just as dramatic at low volume levels as high the ADI-2 DAC is the tool of choice. It can make a big difference in the hands of someone familiar with the app. I can take a good speaker and make it sound fantastic with the ADI-2 DAC.

If you are focused on the chip manufacturer you miss what's important. I have RME ADI-2 units with AKM and ESS chipsets and they both sound the same. But, my Wiim doesn't offer the crazy great Loudness control and ADI-2 app for dialing in just the right sound. It makes a huge difference.

Without the loudness customization
Do the Wiim and RME sound the same when used as DACs?

 

[amper42]

Without the loudness customization
Do the Wiim and RME sound the same when used as DACs?

Most high quality DAC's sound the same if they are not broken. I find XLR connections can also add sonic improvement.

But, after hearing what the ADI-2 app can do to bring life to the music or make a dull speaker sound great it's hard to ignore those features. AND harder yet to be satisfied without them.

 

[BillG]

For LMS/Lyrion users with Wiim streaming products, there is a relatively easy way to achieve Loudness Compensation:



This requires installing the SqueezeDSP plug-in, and knowing one's average listening level and entering it manually, but that's easy enough to obtain with a smartphone and a sound meter application.

The loudness compensated stream gets sent to the WiiM, which then applies whatever EQ is configured, if any.

 

[amper42]

For LMS/Lyrion users with Wiim streaming products, there is a relatively easy way to achieve Loudness Compensation:

View attachment 484635

This requires installing the SqueezeDSP plug-in, and knowing one's average listening level and entering it manually, but that's easy enough to obtain with a smartphone and a sound meter application.

The loudness compensated stream gets sent to the WiiM, which then applies whatever EQ is configured, if any.

With the RME ADI-2 app the user configures exactly when Loudness is applied and by how much. As the volume increases Loudness compensation automatically decreases. This automation maximizes the Loudness application impact. I don't see that type of control with the SqueezeDSP settings.

 

[BillG]

This automation maximizes the Loudness application impact. I don't see that type of control with the SqueezeDSP settings.

Well, the fact that I mentioned that one's average listening level needs to be entering manually should have given that away. It's rudimentary compared to a fully automated process. However, for quiet listening where one isn't likely to alter the volume frequently, it's sufficient.

This isn't a competition for me because I really don't care about other people's systems. I merely offering some information for LMS users.

 

[Bland_username42069]

To be fair WIIM has room correction built in which is a big advantage. Obviously you can do it in RME too but it’s more a far more manual process (I believe, not having used a WIIM).

Wiim mini plugged into an RME seems to be the overlord of options but WIIM on its own seems very well thought and powerful to me (and I have an RME 2/4 SE)

 

[amper42]

To be fair WIIM has room correction built in which is a big advantage. Obviously you can do it in RME too but it’s more a far more manual process (I believe, not having used a WIIM).

Wiim mini plugged into an RME seems to be the overlord of options but WIIM on its own seems very well thought and powerful to me (and I have an RME 2/4 SE)

I used Wiim mini/optical plugged into RME ADI-2 DAC for a while. It's OK if you are satisfied with the 192kHz limitation and will be solely using the visually limited Wiim app. But, when I used Wiim with MacBook Pro and Audirvana via UPnP the connection was erratic. Changing between tracks, Wiim UPnP failed 50% of the time. It could not consistently play the next album without stalling. The UPnP programing offered by Wiim is non-standard and has never been fixed. You really have to be satisfied with the Wiim app to make it work. In addition, new Wiim firmware updates usually have the potential to actually make it worse.

I moved to RPI4/Moode instead with RME ADI-2 DAC using USB connection. The 192kHz limitation disappeared, it supports Audirvana/MacBook Pro Qobuz streaming via UPnP without issue and it adds the ability to copy Hi-Res music up to 352kHz to a USB Flash drive mounted on RPi4/Moode for local playback through ADI-2.

I really like the Moode local playback option as it can be configured to autoplay when RPI4 turns on. You can easily change the music playing via any phone, iPad or computer using a browser IP address. It has a beautiful album cover interface and loading/updating music collections is simple. While streaming is great for trying new music, I find myself wanting to load any music I really like on the USB drive connected to the RPI4. Internet down? - no problem. Don't want to pay streaming fees? No problem as all the music I really want to listen to is already on the RPi4. I like the flexibility of a large library on a tiny USB drive the size of my thumb nail. A 256GB drive can hold a ton of music and costs about $25. It's incredible that over 200 albums can fit on that tiny drive and you can always expand to a 512GB or larger.

 

[Ravi]

Very useful points. Thx. RME app is available for I phone 15 ? I did manual adj for loudness control compensation. Currently I use RME vol at -7. But I keep the eq in RME as flat.as my preamp is 2.1 parasound. With low pass and high pass filters. I use XLR out to preamp in. I control volume thru preamp. The remote version I feel should be useable in I phone too. For ease.
It’s built in with lots of user interface.
I m now adjusting manually. Ideally if RME also provides for WiFi direct and Bluetooth they would have kept users like us happy. A streamer is another great addition. Because if WiFi transfers. And better than Bluetooth compression. Hence the WIiM
Pl add your viewes as I read them all with lots of interest. Thx.

 

[amper42]

I use the RME ADI-2 DAC FS in Auto Ref mode. You get the highest possible resolution and lowest noise floor with that setting. With Auto Ref engaged my typical RME volume setting is between -34 to -40 depending on speaker sensitivity and desired volume. The Revel F328 can offer 80dB levels at -36 with a Purifi amp. I use the ADI-2 as the pre-amp and DAC. RPI4/Moode serves as streamer. I find the less components in the chain the cleaner sound potential and reduced energy use.

I can't imagine being in the room at -7 volume setting on the RME with my setup.