RME ADI-2 Pro FS R BE vs Benchmark DAC3 HGC

[Logan Nolag]

The RME forum is amazingly good. Very knowledge about employees/principals from RME often participate. Benchmark also participates on forums and has an amazingly high level of technical expertise.

Contrast RME and Benchmark with Denon/Marantz. It's doubtful that D/M has anyone in the U.S. who actually understands their AVR's/AVP's at the technical level. Certainly D/M doesn't participate on any forums.

Note on the following: I live in the United States.

The lack of measurements in most audio reviews in the U.S. is most likely due to typical American's being too ignorant in the area the technology to understand the measurements, to disinterested to learn. and hostile to technology because they feel insecure due to their ignorance.

The difference between the German site and sites like this one or especially the AVSForum is striking. The general level of technical knowledge shown on the German sites is much higher. This higher level of knowledge in Germany reflects the significant difference in the levels of STEM education and knowledge between the two countries. The U.S. is horrible in this regard.

Often people who don't understand something like to criticize those who have mastered a subject. They like to pull the others down. Instead of working to obtain the same knowledge they try to imply faults with others who know more than they do. They also feel insecure. Clearly your reference to "German" fits this description.

A very representative example of the amazing level of technology ignorance in the U.S. was a sorry small piece of a discussion I had with a Junior in High School recently. Of course this was in California that must have the worst schools in the U.S. Hopefully other states are better.

Somehow the year 1948 came up in a discussion. I noted that 1948 was the year the transistor was invented by three guys a Bell Labs who won the Nobel Prize for their efforts. This person said what is a transistor? Not what does it do or the like. This person is an "A" student in high school and yet hadn't heard the word transistor. Another ignorant technophobe in the making.

Mastering the use of a smartphone does not imply any short of technical knowledge.

Oh I can assure you that California definitely does not have the worst schools in the country. In fact I haven't looked it up but I would be surprised if they weren't near the top. I live in GA and some of the people here are very stupid. For example I once met someone who didn't know what the word "instead" meant and English was supposedly their first language.

 

[KEM]

Hi, I just this moment signed up for this forum. I am researching DACs. I have my eyes on the RME ADC-2 and the Benchmark DAC3 HGC (or the L version). I have a Levinson 38s preamp which I love for its lack of coloration and for its six inputs (yes, 6). My inputs are: Turntable (with phono preamp), OPPO BDP-105, Reel-to-Reel, and Tuner. That is four. I use the other two to compare components (esp tuners).
Right now, I am using the OPPO for all digital sources. I have an external hard drive connected to the OPPO for digital files. I don't use a computer in playback. For recording, I use a Benchmark ADC-1 with a PC (the files on the PC are transferred to the external hard drive. I also download files from a few online stores. I do not care for MP3s.

I use both speakers (B&W 805 with DIY sub) and headphones (ZMF Aeolus). I have a headphone amp and a power amp.

I listen to rock, jazz, blues, and classical (mostly Opera). I enjoy watching operas using the OPPO HDMI video output.

I am wondering if it is worth the expense to take the digital audio out of the OPPO and input it to an external DAC that would then input to the 38s.. I am most interested in sound quality. I am not bothered by complicated menus or key sequences. I have always been able to figure things out (using the manual, of course). Budget is a secondary concern. I really want the best sound.

Are there other DACs I should be considering?


Is the DAC2 sound comparable to the DAC3?

Is the sound from the DAC-3 L the same as the DAC-2 HGC?

The way I understand it, I will have a problem with SACDs and DSD files. I will have to use an HDMI breakout box with the OPPO in DSD to PCM mode. The audio would go into the coax input on the DAC. Is his correct? Is there a better way?

Thanks in advance for all advice!

Kevin

 

[Inner Space]

The lack of measurements in most audio reviews in the U.S. is most likely due to typical American's being too ignorant in the area the technology to understand the measurements, to disinterested to learn. and hostile to technology because they feel insecure due to their ignorance.

Glass houses, my friend. The single sentence quoted above contains at least four egregious grammatical errors, incoherencies and wrong word choices. Maybe the kid who didn't know what a transistor was can at least speak and write English correctly.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Oh I can assure you that California definitely does not have the worst schools in the country. In fact I haven't looked it up but I would be surprised if they weren't near the top. I live in GA and some of the people here are very stupid. For example I once met someone who didn't know what the word "instead" meant and English was supposedly their first language.

Most recent ranking California schools rank 44th.

In the most recent IQ estimate of the state populations California has fallen below states like Alabama and West Virginia. In fact California is below all the southern states except two. They are 48th of 50. One of the least intelligent states in the union.

Sorry for the off topic.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-iq-by-state

 

[Logan Nolag]

Most recent ranking California schools rank 44th.

In the most recent IQ estimate of the state populations California has fallen below states like Alabama and West Virginia. In fact California is below all the southern states except two. They are 48th of 50. One of the least intelligent states in the union.

Sorry for the off topic.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-iq-by-state

Hilarious.

 

[RayDunzl]

Mastering the use of a smartphone does not imply any short of technical knowledge.

It might simply be the latest contributing factor...

 

[KEM]

Is there a relationship between IQ and education quality? My understanding is that IQ is a measure of native intelligence, not learning. The range of IQ given in the reference is from 94 to 104. I'm assuming that average (or is it mean?) IQ is 100. There is very little difference between 94 and 104. The differences shown could be an artifact of the sampling done.
Now, language knowledge (vocabulary) and fact knowledge (what is a transistor) are learned skills, not native.
So I posit that there is little difference in IQ from state to state, but large difference in learned skills depending on the quality of education received. There can also be large differences in learned skills from county to county, even school to school within a state.

 

[BDWoody]

Most recent ranking California schools rank 44th.

In the most recent IQ estimate of the state populations California has fallen below states like Alabama and West Virginia. In fact California is below all the southern states except two. They are 48th of 50. One of the least intelligent states in the union.

Sorry for the off topic.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-iq-by-state

That may be the least surprising, but somehow most hysterical thing I've read all day.

 

[RayDunzl]

In the most recent IQ estimate of the state populations California has fallen below states like Alabama and West Virginia. In fact California is below all the southern states except two. They are 48th of 50. One of the least intelligent states in the union.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Is there a relationship between IQ and education quality? My understanding is that IQ is a measure of native intelligence, not learning. The range of IQ given in the reference is from 94 to 104. I'm assuming that average (or is it mean?) IQ is 100. There is very little difference between 94 and 104. The differences shown could be an artifact of the sampling done.
Now, language knowledge (vocabulary) and fact knowledge (what is a transistor) are learned skills, not native.
So I posit that there is little difference in IQ from state to state, but large difference in learned skills depending on the quality of education received. There can also be large differences in learned skills from county to county, even school to school within a state.

I think the chart showed the USA in total had an estimated average of 100.344 if you'll scroll down the page.

I didn't show the source for the school ranking. It is based upon testing and other measures. Obviously as an extreme example you are unlikely to have great results testing students if the average IQ were 80. So the IQ likely is a constraint upon educational results. You could say ranking 44th with a population 48th in IQ the California school system is over-performing slightly.

BTW, I think it was about 10 years ago similar measures had California around 35th. So whether the methodology is totally sound or not it shows a downward drift in California vs other states. And yes even best to worst isn't a huge difference. I'm not trying to make too much of it myself.

 

[ririt]

Hey guys, it seems that this thread goes off tracks since few days! We are suppose to discuss about RME and Benchmark DACS.
I am french and the debate about the IQ of the residents of the different states does not interest me at all!
can we come-back please to the thread topic?

 

[VMAT4]

I'm looking at replacing my current preamplifier, a McIntosh C47, with one of these 2 units mostly because the C47's DAC has one major annoying quirk; Whenever sound stops playing over USB it automatically mutes and then it takes a second or so to come back on which means you sometimes miss the beginning of a song or video. This problem has been fixed in the McIntosh C49 but it seems ridiculous to pay another $5000 - ~$2500(The price I can get easily by selling the C47) just to fix this silly problem. I can however buy an RME ADI-2 Pro FS R or a Benchmark DAC3 HGC for around the same money I can get from selling my C47 which since on paper both of these units actually outperform the C47 seems like a better plan.

Most of the comparisons I have seen online are between the ADI-2 DAC FS and the DAC3 HGC and the consensus is to go with the ADI-2 DAC since it's half the price but the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE and DAC3 HGC are almost the same price.

I need the ADI-Pro since I require analog inputs because once I get rid of my C47 I will need to use the phono preamp in my receiver for my turntable.

I am leaning towards the Benchmark since it has a 12v trigger to turn on my amp and the analog inputs are not converted to digital before being sent to the outputs. Also Benchmark's customer support seems to be second to none.

The ADI-2 Pro FS BE on the other hand seems to have many more features and is much more up to date. The Benchmark only does 24bit 192/DSD64 while the ADI-2 does 32bit 768/DSD256 for example.

The both seem to measure very comparably so it really just comes down to features and customer support.

Benchmark DAC3 HGC Pros:
- More direct analog path
- 12v trigger
- Internal PSU
- Rack mountable
- Awesome customer support
- Made in USA
- 5 year warranty

Benchmark DAC3 HGC Cons:
- Only supports 24/192 DSD64
- Requires opening the unit and moving jumpers to change settings
- Firmware updates are paid and require opening the case and installing new hardware
- No EQ/DSP/Crossfeed etc.

ADI-2 Pro FS R BE Pros:
- More up to date 32/768 DSD256
- Lots of features EQ/DSP/Crossfeed etc.
- Frequent and easy firmware updates
- Easy setting changes with screen
- Bigger community

ADI-2 Pro FS R BE Cons
- Looks like it has worse build quality (plastic knobs, cheap remote etc.)
- Worse support (I tried calling RME US and I was just sent to voicemail for example)
- Unclear warranty (Manual says 6 months?! other sources say 2 years others say 5)
- Not made in US (Made in Germany is still pretty good though)

TLDR: Anyone have experience with these 2 units and which would you rather buy?

Good things come to those who wait. The Topping preamp is in the works.

 

[Mikechw]

Found this adaptor to convert ADI-2 PRO fs to output balanced 2.5mm trrs or 4.4mm trrrs...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08284BT67/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[RichB]

Most recent ranking California schools rank 44th.

In the most recent IQ estimate of the state populations California has fallen below states like Alabama and West Virginia. In fact California is below all the southern states except two. They are 48th of 50. One of the least intelligent states in the union.

Sorry for the off topic.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-iq-by-state

I wont comment on other states. I live in Massachusetts and can assure you we are awash in pseudointellectuals.
A little humility would go a long way. Also, as stated before, IQ is different from knowledge just as education is different from wisdom.

- Rich

 

[Phorize]

Yes I still go round in circles with the ADI menu system. Its an excellent performer however

Yep, me too. Who would have thought that having more than one way of changing a setting on one device would be confusing? Darn sight easier than my old chord qutest though, at least I can tell what a parameter is currently set to without running for the manual.

 

[bigguyca]

Hey guys, it seems that this thread goes off tracks since few days! We are suppose to discuss about RME and Benchmark DACS.
I am french and the debate about the IQ of the residents of the different states does not interest me at all!
can we come-back please to the thread topic?

Feel-free to comment on the IQ of EU residents, and the quality of education in the EU. Also comment if you want or any country in the EU or any subdivision of those countries. Please don't feel left out. They are on an island, but don't ignore the Brit's.

In the few months I worked and vacationed in Europe over the years I found the Germans were impressive.

 

[bigguyca]

I think the chart showed the USA in total had an estimated average of 100.344 if you'll scroll down the page.

I didn't show the source for the school ranking. It is based upon testing and other measures. Obviously as an extreme example you are unlikely to have great results testing students if the average IQ were 80. So the IQ likely is a constraint upon educational results. You could say ranking 44th with a population 48th in IQ the California school system is over-performing slightly.

BTW, I think it was about 10 years ago similar measures had California around 35th. So whether the methodology is totally sound or not it shows a downward drift in California vs other states. And yes even best to worst isn't a huge difference. I'm not trying to make too much of it myself.

California is in a race for the bottom. That's clear from living here.

 

[hollis]

Wait, isnt this an audio forum? Whats this geography stuff?

I am looking to set my wallet on fire, this Schiit Jot isnt cutting it. RME seems worthy, but minus the DAC you folks have some amazing other ideas.

 

[Logan Nolag]

So I ended up returning my ADI-2 Pro FS R BE. I didn't notice it at first but after someone else over on the official RME forums noticed a bunch of dust under the acrylic screen cover I checked mine more closely and I saw that mine too was full of dust. The dealer I ordered from sent me a replacement and it was even worse. The dealer then checked a third unit in their warehouse and it too was defective so I decided to send it back for a refund. Since I wasn't really impressed by the DAC3 HGC I decided to trade my C47 for another McIntosh preamp with their new DA2 module. I haven't decided which one I'm going to get yet but I'm leaning toward either a new C8 or a used C49. Once I sell my current C47 I will end up paying about the same amount as I did for the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE. I know people on this forum tend to place measurements above all else but I also value build quality and company history not just specs hence the reason I like McIntosh.

 

[Rja4000]

So I ended up returning my ADI-2 Pro FS R BE. I didn't notice it at first but after someone else over on the official RME forums noticed a bunch of dust under the acrylic screen cover I checked mine more closely and I saw that mine too was full of dust. The dealer I ordered from sent me a replacement and it was even worse. The dealer then checked a third unit in their warehouse and it too was defective so I decided to send it back for a refund. Since I wasn't really impressed by the DAC3 HGC I decided to trade my C47 for another McIntosh preamp with their new DA2 module. I haven't decided which one I'm going to get yet but I'm leaning toward either a new C8 or a used C49. Once I sell my current C47 I will end up paying about the same amount as I did for the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE. I know people on this forum tend to place measurements above all else but I also value build quality and company history not just specs hence the reason I like McIntosh.

Hi
I just want to say I own two ADI-2 Pro fs and one ADI-2 Pro fs R and none is having that issue.
That's probably an issue with a specific batch.