RME ADI-2 FS Version 2 DAC and Headphone Amp Review

[Curvature]

The main weakness of the RME is that its conversion section is quite basic for the price.

Performance? Number of inputs/outputs? Config?

Compared to what?

 

[Deleted member 86328]

Why don't you ask RME?

I wrote to RME three days ago to ask whether a new version was planned; they still haven’t deigned to reply. Perhaps it was a perfectly foolish question — after all, who knows, perhaps this product will still be considered “remarkable” twenty years from now, provided one is content with a certain retro charm. Or perhaps they simply prefer to say nothing, because who, like me, would still spend €1100 knowing that a successor might be released in six months or a year?

Of course, its features — particularly loudness — remain remarkable, and I commend the German build quality as well as their exemplary after‑sales service. It’s also an aesthetically pleasing product, with a design that clearly reflects meticulous attention to detail. The fact that this is a brand oriented toward professionals, and that the ADI‑2 DAC is their only product aimed at the general public, is in itself very reassuring for the buyer. You can tell you’re dealing with serious, meticulous engineers who know their craft. But it must also be said honestly: its circuitry, however robust and well‑crafted, now feels rather dated compared to current standards, considering it was released in November 2019. It is about time they offered an upgrade worthy of their reputation.

 

[Curvature]

I wrote to RME three days ago to ask whether a new version was planned; they still haven’t deigned to reply. Perhaps it was a perfectly foolish question — after all, who knows, perhaps this product will still be considered “remarkable” twenty years from now, provided one is content with a certain retro charm. Or perhaps they simply prefer to say nothing, because who, like me, would still spend €1100 knowing that a successor might be released in six months or a year?

Of course, its features — particularly loudness — remain remarkable, and I commend the German build quality as well as their exemplary after‑sales service. It’s also an aesthetically pleasing product, with a design that clearly reflects meticulous attention to detail. The fact that this is a brand oriented toward professionals, and that the ADI‑2 DAC is their only product aimed at the general public, is in itself very reassuring for the buyer. You can tell you’re dealing with serious, meticulous engineers who know their craft. But it must also be said honestly: its circuitry, however robust and well‑crafted, now feels rather dated compared to current standards, considering it was released in November 2019. It is about time they offered an upgrade worthy of their reputation.

What kind of setup do you have at home? What speakers, headphones?

Do you understand the technical details well enough to compare it to a consumer DAC? The "circuitry feels dated"?

 

[Deleted member 86328]

What kind of setup do you have at home? What speakers, headphones?

Do you understand the technical details well enough to compare it to a consumer DAC? The "circuitry feels dated"?

Yes, I fully stand by my statement that its electronics — meaning the entirety of its design and implementation — feel noticeably dated, even compared to more recent models like the Luxsin X9 and certain products from Topping. Of course, it probably takes a certain level of technical literacy to express that without undue reverence. And since you seem to doubt my ability to judge, allow me to remind you that the ADI‑2 DAC, while certainly used by professionals, is also widely purchased by discerning enthusiasts — perhaps like yourself, unless of course you happen to be a cursed Phil Spector hiding among us.

 

[RalphB]

I wrote to RME three days ago to ask whether a new version was planned; they still haven’t deigned to reply. Perhaps it was a perfectly foolish question — after all, who knows, perhaps this product will still be considered “remarkable” twenty years from now, provided one is content with a certain retro charm. Or perhaps they simply prefer to say nothing, because who, like me, would still spend €1100 knowing that a successor might be released in six months or a year?

Of course, its features — particularly loudness — remain remarkable, and I commend the German build quality as well as their exemplary after‑sales service. It’s also an aesthetically pleasing product, with a design that clearly reflects meticulous attention to detail. The fact that this is a brand oriented toward professionals, and that the ADI‑2 DAC is their only product aimed at the general public, is in itself very reassuring for the buyer. You can tell you’re dealing with serious, meticulous engineers who know their craft. But it must also be said honestly: its circuitry, however robust and well‑crafted, now feels rather dated compared to current standards, considering it was released in November 2019. It is about time they offered an upgrade worthy of their reputation.

They don't tell you if a new unit is coming out because it cannibalizes existing sales.

 

[Deleted member 86328]

The ADI‑2 DAC is still a very interesting product, especially because it offers an all‑in‑one solution packed with features and great convenience. But if you strip away those features and judge it solely as a DAC and headphone amplifier, it is no longer a great product today. Many other devices have already surpassed it in these core aspects. And if RME doesn’t release a new version within the next two or three years, it will be a completely outdated product, as other brands — especially Chinese ones — will have incorporated all of these features into even better‑performing devices.

 

[Matias]

The main weakness of the RME is that its conversion section is quite basic for the price. And its headphone amplifier is hardly exceptional either…

Read this.

Post in thread 'RME ADI-2 FS Version 2 DAC and Headphone Amp Review'

May 16, 2020

Amir's measurement of the improved SINAD at higher levels than 4 Volt output inspired me to show the superiority of the ADI-2 DAC's multiple hardware reference levels, that anyone can use without having to think about it by using the default AutoRef setting. What happens is that when you lower the volume every 6 dB (4 x ) the discrete hardware lowers its amplification and the DAC's digital level is ramped up again. So lowering the volume will not make you loose all the THD+N, or SINAD.

First I replicated Amir's measurement (pretty much identical), then added the SINAD states...

• MC_RME

• 

 

[Roland68]

I wrote to RME three days ago to ask whether a new version was planned; they still haven’t deigned to reply. Perhaps it was a perfectly foolish question — after all, who knows, perhaps this product will still be considered “remarkable” twenty years from now, provided one is content with a certain retro charm. Or perhaps they simply prefer to say nothing, because who, like me, would still spend €1100 knowing that a successor might be released in six months or a year?

Of course, its features — particularly loudness — remain remarkable, and I commend the German build quality as well as their exemplary after‑sales service. It’s also an aesthetically pleasing product, with a design that clearly reflects meticulous attention to detail. The fact that this is a brand oriented toward professionals, and that the ADI‑2 DAC is their only product aimed at the general public, is in itself very reassuring for the buyer. You can tell you’re dealing with serious, meticulous engineers who know their craft. But it must also be said honestly: its circuitry, however robust and well‑crafted, now feels rather dated compared to current standards, considering it was released in November 2019. It is about time they offered an upgrade worthy of their reputation.

Can you please elaborate on that?
I can't quite figure out what you mean by circuits and standards that are outdated.

 

[amper42]

Yes, I fully stand by my statement that its electronics — meaning the entirety of its design and implementation — feel noticeably dated, even compared to more recent models like the Luxsin X9 and certain products from Topping. Of course, it probably takes a certain level of technical literacy to express that without undue reverence. And since you seem to doubt my ability to judge, allow me to remind you that the ADI‑2 DAC, while certainly used by professionals, is also widely purchased by discerning enthusiasts — perhaps like yourself, unless of course you happen to be a cursed Phil Spector hiding among us.

This sounds like hogwash to me. When I'm dealing with audio gear I look for the features most important to me. I'm not looking for a fashion statement, or it's release date - I'm looking for function and a solid build. To me, the Luxsin X9 is an absolute waste of money. There is nothing new about it or any of the Topping products. In addition, their remotes are subpar.

Even though the ADI-2 DAC FS has a beautiful, informative, multi-functional display it's not what I care about. I'm looking for gear that offers me innovative control that's easy to use while also providing an optional computer interface. RME does that. NO ONE ELSE offers it.

A unit without a Loudness control feature at least as effective as the RME ADI-2 DAC FS doesn't even get on my radar. It's just more old ideas, that do literally nothing to improve my system. Who cares when it was released? New junk is released every month.

 

[Sokel]

Please forgive me, I’m struggling a bit to find the exact term in English to describe the electronics as a whole — by which I mean the design, architecture, and internal implementation of the circuitry. As a DAC and headphone amplifier, I find the ADI-2 DAC has already been surpassed by many products on the market.

I wouldn't take #post 178 lightly if I was you.
Levels are far more important than any other metric as any measurement is relevant to those.

The ingenious VC of ADI takes it miles apart.

 

[Curvature]

Yes, I fully stand by my statement that its electronics — meaning the entirety of its design and implementation — feel noticeably dated, even compared to more recent models like the Luxsin X9 and certain products from Topping. Of course, it probably takes a certain level of technical literacy to express that without undue reverence. And since you seem to doubt my ability to judge, allow me to remind you that the ADI‑2 DAC, while certainly used by professionals, is also widely purchased by discerning enthusiasts — perhaps like yourself, unless of course you happen to be a cursed Phil Spector hiding among us.

Can you please not be so vague.

Take the Luxsin X9. Max output is 4.2V. The RME outputs 6.7V or +19dBu and can change the reference level as necessary. This allows it to work with a much wider array of gear, including the best amplifiers available, without need of a preamp. @Matias has already posted an explanation of the autoranging. It has perfect channel matching for the relay-controlled volume. It has separate outputs for high sensitivity and low sensitivity headphones.

There are very few circumstances in which anyone will be able to hear any noise or distortion. And those circumstances will be either misunderstanding or something contrived. There are very few headphones in the market need more power than it can output.

The output impedance of all of the outputs, even the line level outputs, is such that it won't cause unexpected problems with any gear other than very old or specialist equipment.

There are no reports I've ever seen of issues with the drivers. I cannot emphasize enough how rare this is, even for pro gear. I'm fairly sure that one of the firmware updates RME offered even improved the SNR.

If you are looking for more features or cosmetic elements, or the above doesn't apply to you for some idiosyncratic reason, sure, other companies might offer something better.

I have an RME ADI-2 Pro. It outputs and accepts inputs of +24dBu and has excellent ADCs. I use it for signal and acoustic measurements and to power my speakers and headphones. I can't imagine a circumstance in which I would need to change it for something else, unless the industry decides to change standards in a major way.

Generally speaking, I found over time after a bunch of different setups that extra features are usually not needed or can be replicated with creative workarounds or routing.

 

[Curvature]

Yes, I fully stand by my statement that its electronics — meaning the entirety of its design and implementation — feel noticeably dated, even compared to more recent models like the Luxsin X9 and certain products from Topping. Of course, it probably takes a certain level of technical literacy to express that without undue reverence. And since you seem to doubt my ability to judge, allow me to remind you that the ADI‑2 DAC, while certainly used by professionals, is also widely purchased by discerning enthusiasts — perhaps like yourself, unless of course you happen to be a cursed Phil Spector hiding among us.

And, by the way, people on the pro side complain about RME prices too, but not the performance. RME is actually midpriced in that market, if you can believe it.

 

[Curvature]

Because, unlike many here, I do not believe this DAC is immortal. I am convinced, even certain, that RME is working on an evolution.

Realistically, what would that evolution entail? And, genuinely, would it be necessary for your use case?

 

[RalphB]

Indeed, nothing beats a « BAM » — a masterpiece of argument worthy of the greatest minds.

BAM

 

[unpluggged]

The main weakness of the RME is that its conversion section is quite basic for the price

Because the conversion section is the most basic and straightforward part. The most complicated things happen before and after that.

 

[respice finem]

The ADI‑2 DAC is still a very interesting product, especially because it offers an all‑in‑one solution packed with features and great convenience. But if you strip away those features and judge it solely as a DAC and headphone amplifier, it is no longer a great product today. Many other devices have already surpassed it in these core aspects. And if RME doesn’t release a new version within the next two or three years, it will be a completely outdated product, as other brands — especially Chinese ones — will have incorporated all of these features into even better‑performing devices.

(Reg. above text, esp. the part underlined by me)

Well, yes, from a progressive point of view, and no, in the conservative "philosophy" like RME or Neumann represent.
I can see the latter isn't yours, so you will probably not be happy with theirs. Happens. Customers are different, have different preferences and it's a good thing, if it wasn't the case, why have so many different models and manufacturers?

An example (also from a real user perspective): Neumann is a successor of Klein & Hummel. Their O300D, predecessor of my current KH310A, is from the last millennium (no joke), and its predecessor (which symbol I forgot) reaches back to the eighties. The electronics evolved, the basics like the waveguides and driver positions remained - for 45 years. So, are the KH 310A too old for me now, "outdated"? I don't think so, my ears are ver. 1.0 and even older than their "grandfather". One modern "feature" they definitely don't have, are unexpected flaws. The only thing I miss, is auto standby (studios don't need it), but would I sell them and buy a successor because of it? No. A switch under my desk, and I am happy for the next decades (if I live that long).

But, I understand your FOMO, we all only live once, and if you like to be up to the latest tech, such "evolutionist", conservative companies are probably not your cup of tea, simply.

Neumann KH310A

What do you get when you cross Klein + Hummel's pedigree in speaker design with Neumann's decades of industry experience? A very good monitor indeed...

www.soundonsound.com

K+H O 300D & Pro C28

Despite its small size, this new system leads the field when it comes to nearfield monitoring accuracy.

www.soundonsound.com

 

[respice finem]

Loose thought, to come back to the ADI-2 DAC, regarding pricing: No manufacturer is eager to sell items cheaper than necessary.
They know their sales and obviously aren't pressed to do anything in that direction.
IMHO even more understandable, facing the current worldwide uncertainties.

There were big and small European companies trying to compete with Asia price-wise, decades ago.
They are all either gone or sold... to Asia. So probably it wouldn't be a winning strategy.

 

[Sokel]

I am not complaining at all about the price of the RME. That’s not what I criticize. On the contrary, I would be willing to invest much more in a genuine improvement of the ADI-2 DAC.


Because, unlike many here, I do not believe this product is immortal. I am convinced, even certain, that RME is working on an evolution.

I can only talk about me as a example. I love tech too.
What I have promised myself though is that, to get the "new" tech it must make sense (to me), must be clearly and audibly an upgrade, must like the looks, must own it as a black box and never think about as a source of potential trouble, etc.

Every new review I see something interesting (either for listening or measurements) I comment that I'll wait 6 months to a year to see if it's stable,etc.
Conclusion? I'm still with an old 2015 DAC and a Khadas Tone board to torture to the point of no return. No new DAC for Sokel yet.

(a new ADI-2 pro though is my near future buy) .

Fighting the need for new, small "upgrades" is the recipe for peace of mind.

 

[Yuhasz01]

Lovely phrase… but it does carry a faint whiff of disdain for those who can’t afford “diamonds.” Don’t worry about me. It’s just that, forgive me, but to my eyes a “diamond” doesn’t look like a 2019 device still selling for €1100. I have a different idea of what truly shines.

Follow technical consumer trends , your money. Many here at ASR prefer science and sound engineering. RME is a professional audio design and manufacturing firm. They are very active in that space and the DAC is an after effect of their technology for the consumer device.

 

[respice finem]

...Fighting the need for new, small "upgrades" is the recipe for peace of mind.

And good for the wallet, too.