RME ADI-2 fs or Topping DX3 Pro+

[Trell]

By DSP if you are referring to the filters, I wouldn't consider that a benefit on any Dac as I cannot ever hear the difference. Probably because I cannot hear anything over 13khz.

Sorry I was unclear. What I meant is DSP like PEQ, Dynamic Loudness, cross feed, tone controls, left/right balance etc, but not the selection of reconstruction filters as this usually is a feature of the DAC IC not requiring external DSP resources.

 

[5omeone]

Without having heard the Topping DX3 Pro+, I fully recommend the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

You can hardly compare the two devices with each other. The functionality of the RME clearly exceeds that of the Topping. The customization possibilities to specific needs are extremely extensive and hardly to be found in high quality hifi devices. This is a real "Pro" device. If you mainly use headphones, the Topping is probably sufficient. But in combination with a good speaker system the ADI-2 DAC plays in another league. The RME is also better adapted to appropriate headphones (high power circuit and low impedance capabilities, e.g. for IEMs). For 999$ this is a very good deal.

Oh and RME offers with the ADI-2 DAC a very simple and meaningful bit test from 16bit/44.1kHz to 32bit/192Khz. Very interesting!

 

[TechEnthusiast]

Sorry I was unclear. What I meant is DSP like PEQ, Dynamic Loudness, cross feed, tone controls, left/right balance etc, but not the selection of reconstruction filters as this usually is a feature of the DAC IC not requiring external DSP resources.

Only ones that interest me are the Loudness, Bass/Treble, and of course the EQ.

Without having heard the Topping DX3 Pro+, I fully recommend the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

You can hardly compare the two devices with each other. The functionality of the RME clearly exceeds that of the Topping. The customization possibilities to specific needs are extremely extensive and hardly to be found in high quality hifi devices. This is a real "Pro" device. If you mainly use headphones, the Topping is probably sufficient. But in combination with a good speaker system the ADI-2 DAC plays in another league. The RME is also better adapted to appropriate headphones (high power circuit and low impedance capabilities, e.g. for IEMs). For 999$ this is a very good deal.

Oh and RME offers with the ADI-2 DAC a very simple and meaningful bit test from 16bit/44.1kHz to 32bit/192Khz. Very interesting!

I wholeheartedly agree that the RME is a fantastic device, especially after reading the manual, that does more things than any other Dac/Amp on the planet. And you are correct in stating that it is a good deal for the asking price of $999 for what you get all in one box. Sonically, the Loudness function is by far the most unique and interesting aspect for me followed by the Bass/Treble feature and EQ both of which can be attained through the APO software in Windows.
I think the major aspects that I am not really taking advantage of are; the DSP's (ie..Polarity, Crossfeed, separate EQ for Lt and Rt channels etc..), using high quality 2 channel speakers (i have that in another area of the house), its recording abilities, and probably most importantly its ability to perform standalone without the need for equalization through a pc.
I am just using high quality headphones in my home office that need power from a decent source that is controlled/colored/equalized via the APO software. Previously I used a Liquid spark right off of the PC motherboard that worked well. But my son got that unit and I decided to get something with similar power and a remote that could easily control my powered speakers (Audyssey Desktop Pair) from a distance.
I have to admit that I really love the RME ADI-2 Dac. It oozes pure quality and engineering and build quality while also looking cool. But I cannot get over just how close the DX3 Pro+ comes for what truly fulfills my personal needs for $875 less.

 

[Doodski]

Only ones that interest me are the Loudness, Bass/Treble, and of course the EQ.

I wholeheartedly agree that the RME is a fantastic device, especially after reading the manual, that does more things than any other Dac/Amp on the planet. And you are correct in stating that it is a good deal for the asking price of $999 for what you get all in one box. Sonically, the Loudness function is by far the most unique and interesting aspect for me followed by the Bass/Treble feature and EQ both of which can be attained through the APO software in Windows.
I think the major aspects that I am not really taking advantage of are; the DSP's (ie..Polarity, Crossfeed, separate EQ for Lt and Rt channels etc..), using high quality 2 channel speakers (i have that in another area of the house), its recording abilities, and probably most importantly its ability to perform standalone without the need for equalization through a pc.
I am just using high quality headphones in my home office that need power from a decent source that is controlled/colored/equalized via the APO software. Previously I used a Liquid spark right off of the PC motherboard that worked well. But my son got that unit and I decided to get something with similar power and a remote that could easily control my powered speakers (Audyssey Desktop Pair) from a distance.
I have to admit that I really love the RME ADI-2 Dac. It oozes pure quality and engineering and build quality while also looking cool. But I cannot get over just how close the DX3 Pro+ comes for what truly fulfills my personal needs for $875 less.

Is the loudness control variable?

 

[Trell]

Is the loudness control variable?

Yes and configurable as well to taste.

 

[ascl]

I have to admit that I really love the RME ADI-2 Dac. It oozes pure quality and engineering and build quality while also looking cool. But I cannot get over just how close the DX3 Pro+ comes for what truly fulfills my personal needs for $875 less.

I think you have well and truly answered your own question then! Save the money, stick with the Pro+.

 

[TechEnthusiast]

Is the loudness control variable?

Yes it it can be set anywhere from 1 to 10db increase on both Treble and Bass along with a Low Volume reference that you can adjust -90 to-20.

 

[TechEnthusiast]

By the way if any of you are interested I have found a way to create a pseudo loudness preset on APO. I use the following EQ settings for my Edition XS: 54hz/+12.5db/0.5Q for the lows 4800hz/+3db/0.1Q with 16000hz/+6db/0.1Q to round out the highs (pre-amp set to -2db for now and the blue Peakfilter Slider is set on the bottom with all other channels turned off).

 

[Doodski]

By the way if any of you are interested I have found a way to create a pseudo loudness preset on APO. I use the following EQ settings for my Edition XS: 54hz/+12.5db/0.5Q for the lows 4800hz/+3db/0.1Q with 16000hz/+6db/0.1Q to round out the highs (pre-amp set to -2db for now and the blue Peakfilter Slider is set on the bottom with all other channels turned off).

My new ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-F GAMING WIFI motherboard will not operate EQ APO with Peace EQ for some unknown reason. It installs but is mute. So I have to use the simple EQ supplied with the Realtek driver. A drag for sure.

 

[TechEnthusiast]

This is a little off topic, but if I wanted to use an R2R dac with the RME to have another sound how would you connect it. I assume just an analog to digital converter for $15 on amazon would do it or am I wrong?

 

[Jimbob54]

This is a little off topic, but if I wanted to use an R2R dac with the RME to have another sound how would you connect it. I assume just an analog to digital converter for $15 on amazon would do it or am I wrong?

Technically it would work. But how do you know how good it is? I really wouldn't bother.

 

[TechEnthusiast]

Technically it would work. But how do you know how good it is? I really wouldn't bother.

That is what I thought. Just wasn't sure what options were available.
Thanks

 

[Fraxo]

The topping will drive most headphones to hearing damaging levels, but struggles with low impedance headphones. The rme will drive anything.

What makes you say the topping will struggle with low impedance headphones? I highly doubt that according to specs. Could substantiate your claim?

 

[Phorize]

What makes you say the topping will struggle with low impedance headphones? I highly doubt that according to specs. Could substantiate your claim?

 

[Fraxo]

@Phorize I apologize, could you please elaborate?
What should I expect using mostly IEMs, considering which Dac+Amp to purchase and what specs to look into? Since I'm clearly not getting this correctly
Thanks in advance!

 

[Phorize]

No sweat. When @amirm measured the dx3 pro+ at very low impedance the amp clipped. The clipping on the graph is the vertical line. The clipping vrms as measured looks problematic for a headphone that is very low impedance and draws alot of power (at peaks).That said, most headphones aren't very low impedance so the the dx3 pro will be fine in most cases.

I'm not sure which iems you would use, but iems are much more sensitive than headphones (meaning they achieve a high SPL with low power input), so you wouldn't have trouble with the dx3 pro+, or the majority of amplifiers TBH. Noise matters with iems. On this front the dx3 pro + is basically noise free in the audible range (down to 125db actually so well below audible). The graph below is an example that Amir did showing iem sensitivity:

 

[Fraxo]

No sweat. When @amirm measured the dx3 pro+ at very low impedance the amp clipped. The clipping on the graph is the vertical line. The clipping vrms as measured looks problematic for a headphone that is very low impedance and draws alot of power (at peaks).That said, most headphones aren't very low impedance so the the dx3 pro will be fine in most cases.

I'm not sure which iems you would use, but iems are much more sensitive than headphones (meaning they achieve a high SPL with low power input), so you wouldn't have trouble with the dx3 pro+, or the majority of amplifiers TBH. Noise matters with iems. On this front the dx3 pro + is basically noise free in the audible range (down to 125db actually so well below audible). The graph below is an example that Amir did showing iem sensitivity:

Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain @Phorize
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this clipping measurement demonstrating the High Gain mode? Would Low Gain mode perform better in practice?

I'm using the Shuoer S12 (16Ω and a sensitivity of 102dB/mW), so if I understand correctly from the IEM graph you've attached, my S12 would require less than 50mv to reach 96dB. Now, I'm not sure how to cross data with the IEM Graph which shows "dBSPL to mv ratio", and the DX3 Pro+ Distortion Graph which measures "THD+N Ratio (dB)" on the Y axis and "Measured Level (vrms)" on the X axis.
That doesn't mean much to me but I feel that in that lies a deeper understanding I've been close to but keep missing. U mind attempting to help me crack this?