RME ADI-2 DAC vs Pro for Genelec

[ing.daniele]

does anyone have information about the DAC installed on the genelecs?

 

[linuxfan]

The Genelecs contain no DAC. Their input is natively digital.
Of course an analogue input connection is also provided, but the Genelecs will immediately convert this to digital via some form of ADC chip.
Please read post #3 in this forum thread.

 

[unpluggged]

The Genelecs contain no DAC. Their input is natively digital.

Their output, however, is analog. And unless they use some FDA for amplification, there must be some kind of a DAC. For instance, the HEDD MK2 series monitors use AK5552 ADC and AK4454 DAC.

Not that their specific DAC model is of any importance to the customer, though.

 

[linuxfan]

Yes, I was assuming that ing.daniele meant at the input.
Sure, it's feasible that the interface between the Genelec internal DSP and amplifier is D/A ... but there's some information on the web that Genelec's current compact range uses IRS20957S class D amplifier drivers ... so it's also feasible the PWM input circuit for this amplifier accepts a digital signal straight from the DSP. We can only speculate until someone does a tear-down of a (current model) Genelec to confirm.

It's interesting to note that several cheaper monitors such as the JBL LSR305P II utilise a full digital amplifier with integrated DSP. Bizarrely, this monitor does not offer digital input.

 

[unpluggged]

We can only speculate until someone does a tear-down of a (current model) Genelec to confirm.

Yes, it amazes me that nobody had made a public inspection of their internals.

 

[Trell]

Yes, it amazes me that nobody had made a public inspection of their internals.

There are a couple of tear down threads, as I recall.

 

[ing.daniele]

Apologies for the late reply.
Unfortunately, I cant tell you about transformers.
Here's some more info from our RD:
"8361A Digital AES3 interface accepts only PCM audio signal input. Does not support Dsd Over PCM (DOP).
DSD must be converted before the speaker to digital PCM format or analog.

The speaker's playback crossover frequency is 43 kHz, which is more than 2 times the generally accepted upper limit of hearing for a young person at 20 kHz.
The 8361A does not reproduce the 43kHz to 96kHz frequency bandwidth of what a signal recorded at 192kHz sample rate may contain.

The 8361A's wide dynamic range, state-of-the-art directivity, low-noise elements, and GLM room correction offer distinct audible advantages over passive high-end speakers of the same price or higher."


Fron Genelc support

 

[ing.daniele]

If you use analog signal (input), then the audio is first converted to digital, and the back to analog.

If you use digital signal, it is only converted once to analog, so there is one less convertion. However, both analog and digital is very high quality sound, and you can also compare yourself and see which one you would like to use and if you hear difference.

8361A support 32 - 192 kHz and 16 - 24 bits. All parts used with our products are very high quality, and therefore our speakers are used in many professional studios around the world.

Let me know if I did not reply to some of your question, or if you have any additional questions or concerns and we do our best to help. I wish you a great weekend!


2nd from Genelec support

 

[linuxfan]

Well I read through the Genelec 8351B tear-down here -
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...enelec-8351b-teardown-2nd-disassembled.22785/
There are some good photos of the circuit boards - which reveal that the digital AES3 input is decoded via an AK4117 chip, while the analogue input is converted to digital via an AK4621EF chip. These both go to an STM32F765 ARM processor for DSP, and from there to 3x IRS20957S amplifier drivers - one for each speaker unit (woofer, mid-tweeter, tweeter).
As I read the application note for Class-D audio amplifier implementation on STM32 -
https://www.st.com/resource/en/appl...-32bit-arm-cortex-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
it appears the STM32 will output a PWM signal directly to the amplifier chips. So it's fairly certain that the signal path from DSP to amplifier is all digital.
And I'm fairly sure there is no DAC.

 

[ing.daniele]

Genelec claim the amp on 8351
Bass 250 watt
Mid 150 watt
Tweeter 150 watt
The 8351 have 2 woofer
250 watt by woofer or 250 watt for all two woofer ?

 

[ing.daniele]

Well I read through the Genelec 8351B tear-down here -
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...enelec-8351b-teardown-2nd-disassembled.22785/
There are some good photos of the circuit boards - which reveal that the digital AES3 input is decoded via an AK4117 chip, while the analogue input is converted to digital via an AK4621EF chip. These both go to an STM32F765 ARM processor for DSP, and from there to 3x IRS20957S amplifier drivers - one for each speaker unit (woofer, mid-tweeter, tweeter).
As I read the application note for Class-D audio amplifier implementation on STM32 -
https://www.st.com/resource/en/appl...-32bit-arm-cortex-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
it appears the STM32 will output a PWM signal directly to the amplifier chips. So it's fairly certain that the signal path from DSP to amplifier is all digital.
And I'm fairly sure there is no DAC.

Reading this, I confirm my idea of pairing an ADÌ 2 rme with a pair of Genelecs. At least I'm sure I have a real DAC. Which then in the end these are all our superstitions. Genelec provides us with speakers that work stop. And they also work very well, according to the measurements made. I would like to remind you that in the study of the best immersive audio engineer, there are several pairs of Genelec, I invite you to read the study done. And if he uses them who produces music and works on it, I don't go because I don't have to blindly trust these speakers to listen to it.

Genelec ‘The Ones’ power Morten Lindberg’s stunning immersive studio - Genelec.com

In the world of immersive music recording, no-one has done more than Grammy-winning sound engineer and music producer Morten Lindberg to set the gold standard for what can be achieved in this field. To raise the bar of sonic excellence even further, Lindberg has recently upgraded the monitoring...

www.genelec.com

 

[linuxfan]

I confirm my idea of pairing an ADI 2 rme with a pair of Genelecs. At least I'm sure I have a real DAC.

Yes, the ADI-2 is certainly a real DAC ... but Genelecs are internally natively digital, so if your source signal is digital, you don't need a DAC at all.

You can go ahead a use a DAC if you wish, but if you then connect the DAC's analogue outputs to the Genelecs, you are just adding an additional D/A-plus-A/D conversion stage, and unnecessary complexity to the signal chain.

On the other hand if you connect the DAC's digital outputs to the Genelecs, this is optimal use of the Genelecs, but you have bypassed the core function of the DAC, as I said earlier in this thread (post #12) -
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...i-2-dac-vs-pro-for-genelec.24020/#post-811421
The ADI-2 then reverts to being simply a DSP unit, at a price-point well above what other dedicated DSP units cost.

 

[linuxfan]

ing.daniele, maybe tell use what your main audio source is - what device it's coming from - and we can give you more specific advice.

 

[ing.daniele]

ing.daniele, maybe tell use what your main audio source is - what device it's coming from - and we can give you more specific advice.

MacBook pro
Audirvāna or Apple Music

No vinile

For cd i use
Unison research VALVE DAC in other “Made in italy” set up

Thanks

I need a device with this features
Input usb C for audio input from macbook
Output AES/EBU to connect to the 8361
I like very good quality device, but I don’t know.

Thanks for help

 

[jhenderson0107]

This is reported to work fine on Macs, but requires a driver if used under Windows. Personally, I use a Topping D10b which performs usb->SPDIF and a Hosa CDL-313 to convert SPDIF to AES.

I use an RME ADI-2 Pro FS on my living room rig to drive the AES input of a MiniDSP 4x10HD crossover into an 8-channel amp. I prefer the RME rather than a much simpler USB->AES converter because it provides some equalization, loudness compensation and a decent remote.

 

[ing.daniele]

This is reported to work fine on Macs, but requires a driver if used under Windows. Personally, I use a Topping D10b which performs usb->SPDIF and a Hosa CDL-313 to convert SPDIF to AES.

I use an RME ADI-2 Pro FS on my living room rig to drive the AES input of a MiniDSP 4x10HD crossover into an 8-channel amp. I prefer the RME rather than a much simpler USB->AES converter because it provides some equalization, loudness compensation and a decent remote.

These are aspects I take into account,
parametric equalisation,
remote control and
volume control.
I honestly prefer a sound card or DAC with direct AES output without adaptors.

 

[jhenderson0107]

These are aspects I take into account,
parametric equalisation,
remote control and
volume control.
I honestly prefer a sound card or DAC with direct AES output without adaptors.

The ADI-2 Pro FS ships with this cable, which exposes the AES output directly. Just use an XLR mic cable of suitable length to reach your first Genelec channel or sub, then another to daisy-chain to the next speaker in the chain.

In my studio, I do this to connect my RME UCX II (which uses the same breakout cable) to connect to the 7360 sub, then daisy-chain to the two 8341 satellites.

 

[linuxfan]

MacBook pro
Audirvana or Apple Music
...
usb C for audio output from macbook
Output AES/EBU to connect to the 8361

Yes, you need a USB audio-to-AES3 interface/adaptor.
Both of those options suggested by jhenderson0107 in post #35 are very good. And cost-effective.
There are many other USB-to-AES3 options - Audiophonics has a large range -
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/digital-interfaces-c-598.html

For cd i use
Unison research VALVE DAC in other “Made in italy” set up

That appears to be a rather exotic output stage, which is somewhat wasted on the Genelecs, since they convert everything to digital.
It may be best just to take the s/pdif output from your CD player to the AES3 input of your Genelecs, via a converter such as the Hosa CDL-313 (or just a 75 Ohm to 110 Ohm digital audio transformer).

The problem I now see is that you will be needing to switch the Genelec AES3 input back and forth between the Mac and CD player. It would be nice to have a digital interface hub/switching unit to do everything in one box ...
... I must admit that one of the RME models would perform this task well! Of course these units cost between US$2000 and US$2500. Make sure to choose the right model - you need USB input, plus s/pdif input, and AES3 output. Suitable models are:
RME ADI-2 Pro FS R
RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE
RME Digiface AES

Unsuitable models are:
RME ADI-2 FS
RME ADI-2 DAC FS

https://www.rme-audio.de/products.html

 

[ing.daniele]

That appears to be a rather exotic output stage, which is somewhat wasted on the Genelecs, since they convert everything to digital.
It may be best just to take the s/pdif output from your CD player to the AES3 input of your Genelecs, via a converter such as the Hosa CDL-313 (or just a 75 Ohm to 110 Ohm digital audio transformer).

i don’t use Genelec in my “Made in Italy setup”.
I use Made in Italy speaker
Sonus Fabwr Sonetto VIII
This chain looks like analog set up

I use Genelec in my Office.
NOW i want try the stereo configuration, but the future project is to realize a multichannel room with Genelec system.

Thanks

 

[ing.daniele]

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/digital-interfaces-c-598.html

i just see but a lot of product have a cheap look, and don’t have the double volume control (knob and remote).
I'm wondering something. But in recording studios, how do they get into Genelec, that is, how do they connect all those speakers together?

https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn055a4v/7o5Fu5sfQUZPUCTV5Tto9Y/0f5d586326fb7bde5089fc29c974da2c/Morten_Lindberg_Case_Study.pdf

Because if at this point they use analogue and then genelec does the double conversion, then I think it is useless to debate a lot on these topics, as, they are the ones who create the music. Am I wrong? What could we ever get more than them by skipping a conversion step?

Thanks