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RME ADI-2 AD/DC Converter

edahl

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I'm considering a nice deal on an "old-school" RME ADI-2 AD/DC Converter to replace my Focusrite 2i2 AD/DC. Anyone know anything about it and how it compares to modern alternatives?
https://www.rme-audio.de/ADI-2.html

Alternatively, I could use a separate DAC alongside my interface. What should I get for (up to) about 300 dollars?
 

dfuller

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Keep in mind the ADI-2 does not have a computer connection, and no version with A/D (not the ADI-2, ADI-2 FS, ADI-2 Pro/Pro FS/Pro FS R) has mic preamps or high impedance inputs.

The "OG" ADI-2 specs compared to the FS version is about 12dB worse on D/A and about 10dB worse on A/D in terms of SINAD. As far as noise, the OG is noisier but it's tricky to say by how much as they quote SNR on one and DNR on the other.
 
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edahl

edahl

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I guess it's safer to go with a standalone DAC and keep the interface for microphones, since I can't seem to find good optical I/O conversion to USB at reasonable prices.

Eyeing the Topping D70s, but it's a little expensive. Do you have suggestions for balanced DACs that are worthwhile upgrades to the Focusrite 2i2 gen3 around the 300/350 mark? Maybe more if it's like, really worth it. Running it with an iFi Zen Can and DT 1990 Pro + MrSpeaker Aeon Flow closed.
 
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edahl

edahl

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Looking into it, it seems Gustard DAC-X16 and S.M.S.L SU-9 are excellent alternative to the Topping D70s and pretty much on par with it. Any experiences on these?
 

andreasmaaan

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What's wrong with the 2i2? What are you trying to improve and why?
 
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edahl

edahl

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What's wrong with the 2i2? What are you trying to improve and why?
Honestly it's mostly for fun, to separate concerns so I may upgrade each piece individually should I want to. I do get noise when cranking up the gain on the iFi Zen Can, but I haven't pinned down the source; it's not much of an issue on normal listening levels. Currently not running balanced, so that may contribute to it.

Lastly, and less importantly since I'm not sure what to read into it since recordings are always filtered to my current system, I don't know much about the recording setup, codecs, etc., but I was quite surprised to hear a marked difference between a D70 and a D30, with the D70 sounding markedly better to me. So a happy if expensive outcome would be being able to compare.
 

andreasmaaan

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Honestly it's mostly for fun, to separate concerns so I may upgrade each piece individually should I want to. I do get noise when cranking up the gain on the iFi Zen Can, but I haven't pinned down the source; it's not much of an issue on normal listening levels. Currently not running balanced, so that may contribute to it.

Lastly, and less importantly since I'm not sure what to read into it since recordings are always filtered to my current system, I don't know much about the recording setup, codecs, etc., but I was quite surprised to hear a marked difference between a D70 and a D30, with the D70 sounding markedly better to me. So a happy if expensive outcome would be being able to compare.

Ok, I don't think you'll be able to find an upgrade path that leads to objectively better sound (as I don't think it is possible), but I won't interfere if you're fixated on the idea of trying :)

Was your comparison of D30 and D70 blind and level-matched?
 
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edahl

edahl

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Ok, I don't think you'll be able to find an upgrade path that leads to objectively better sound (as I don't think it is possible), but I won't interfere if you're fixated on the idea of trying :)

Was your comparison of D30 and D70 blind and level-matched?

It was blind. Whether or not it was level matched I can't say for certain, so I'm not putting much faith it in.

You think the 2i2 DAC and line outputs are on par with these dedicated offerings?
 
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edahl

edahl

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It was blind. Whether or not it was level matched I can't say for certain, so I'm not putting much faith it in.

You think the 2i2 DAC and line outputs are on par with these dedicated offerings?
I mean, I wouldn't mind a combined AD/DA with EQ and great stats, but that seems to be exactly the ADI-2 RME Pro.
 

andreasmaaan

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It was blind. Whether or not it was level matched I can't say for certain, so I'm not putting much faith it in.

Fair enough. If you have access to both the DACs again, it would be good to try a blind, level-matched comparison - mostly because I suspect it will save you a lot of money and upgrade-itis in the future.

Also keep in mind something I forgot to ask about before: different filter settings can make DACs sound different, so for any comparison, you need to be careful about using the same or similar filter settings on the devices you're testing.
You think the 2i2 DAC and line outputs are on par with these dedicated offerings?

They are not on par objectively with SOTA offerings, but they perform well enough that, based on what I know about human hearing acuity, I find it hard to imagine how, under normal circumstances, any objectively better-performing alternative could possibly sound any different (with one caveat: that the headphone output of the 2i2 msut be powerful enough to drive your headphones).
 
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edahl

edahl

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Fair enough. If you have access to both the DACs again, it would be good to try a blind, level-matched comparison - mostly because I suspect it will save you a lot of money and upgrade-itis in the future.

Also keep in mind something I forgot to ask about before: different filter settings can make DACs sound different, so for any comparison, you need to be careful about using the same or similar filter settings on the devices you're testing.
I can't imagine I will, but it's certainly something I'd love to do. I really don't expect much of a difference, but then again I could just be arrogant in dismissing these things. Filters etc. is another reason I'm interested in another DAC, btw. I mentioned the EQ in the newer ADI-2's; crossfeed is another thing. But pulling the trigger on such an expensive DAC when I need to dish out even more to get the AD-side of it doesn't sit well with me unless I come across a really good used offer or something.

They are not on par objectively with SOTA offerings, but they perform well enough that, based on what I know about human hearing acuity, I find it hard to imagine how, under normal circumstances, any objectively better-performing alternative could possibly sound any different (with one caveat: that the headphone output of the 2i2 msut be powerful enough to drive your headphones).
That is fair enough. I do use the line outs with a dedicated AMP for some headroom, so that part is its own story.
 

andreasmaaan

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I can't imagine I will, but it's certainly something I'd love to do. I really don't expect much of a difference, but then again I could just be arrogant in dismissing these things. Filters etc. is another reason I'm interested in another DAC, btw. I mentioned the EQ in the newer ADI-2's; crossfeed is another thing. But pulling the trigger on such an expensive DAC when I need to dish out even more to get the AD-side of it doesn't sit well with me unless I come across a really good used offer or something.

FWIW, I've attempted to ABX the Adi-2 DAC against the humble Apple USB-C dongle (both of which I own) and can't discern a difference when blind and level-matched.

In case you're not aware, global EQ and crossfeed (among other things) can be done from your PC via software like Equalizer APO (assuming you use Windows).
 
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edahl

edahl

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FWIW, I've attempted to ABX the Adi-2 DAC against the humble Apple USB-C dongle (both of which I own) and can't discern a difference when blind and level-matched.

In case you're not aware, global EQ and crossfeed (among other things) can be done from your PC via software like Equalizer APO (assuming you use Windows).
It kinda beats my why blind AB-testing isn't done more in the hi/headfi world. I haven't found a good source for good systematic attempts at blind level matched AB-testing. The one thing that made a convincing argument for what an external AMP would help with was this this by Scan Pro Audio, which made me pull the trigger on it.

I know about Equalizer APO, but I'm worried about things like latency and performance, since I'd probably end up messing with it for gaming as well as basic mixing and mastering.
 

Zensō

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Have you looked at the Babyface Pro FS? It seems to meet your requirements at a more affordable price than the ADI-2 Pro. It’s a solid unit with a pair of good headphone outputs, low-z out for studio monitors, and those great RME drivers for low latency recording. An added benefit is that it’s bus powered on MacOS and Windows, and can be used with iOS devices with external power.
 

andreasmaaan

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I know about Equalizer APO, but I'm worried about things like latency and performance, since I'd probably end up messing with it for gaming as well as basic mixing and mastering.

Inherent latency is negligible with EQ APO. The level of latency will depend on what plugins you run through it. I get total latencies of around 1-2ms with a set of basic EQ filters for e.g. headphone correction.

FIR convolution is obviously higher latency, and vertain VST plugins (e.g. for crossfeed) will introduce their own latency, although how much will depend on the plugin.

And EQ APO will always tell you the total latency of the chain of filters/plugins etc...
 
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edahl

edahl

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And EQ APO will always tell you the total latency of the chain of filters/plugins etc...
I had no idea, that's incredibly useful.

Have you looked at the Babyface Pro FS? It seems to meet your requirements at a more affordable price than the ADI-2 Pro. It’s a solid unit with a pair of good headphone outputs, low-z out for studio monitors, and those great RME drivers for low latency recording. An added benefit is that it’s bus powered on MacOS and Windows, and can be used with iOS devices with external power.
This may well be the one, thank you! It seems like it might even have enough clean gain for SM7b, though I can't tell for sure
 

Zensō

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I had no idea, that's incredibly useful.


This may well be the one, thank you! It seems like it might even have enough clean gain for SM7b, though I can't tell for sure
I have the older non-FS version and its been solid. @MC_RME can probably answer your question regarding the mic.
 
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edahl

edahl

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I have the older non-FS version and its been solid. @MC_RME can probably answer your question regarding the mic.
Would be awesome if they did! Would be even more awesome if the next $1000 RME ADI-2 hifi slanted model had a mic input too
 

shal

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I'm considering a nice deal on an "old-school" RME ADI-2 AD/DC Converter to replace my Focusrite 2i2 AD/DC. Anyone know anything about it and how it compares to modern alternatives?
https://www.rme-audio.de/ADI-2.html

Alternatively, I could use a separate DAC alongside my interface. What should I get for (up to) about 300 dollars?

I own this ADI-2 (use it with Quadmic. the adi-2 replace a pci card RME 9632 that replace a RME DIGI96/8, Yes, I appreciate RME toys).

The ADI-2 is Ok but.... you have to have a audio interface to control it ?
Good device but very few controls on it.

Keep the Focusrite 2i2 ... most versatile
 
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edahl

edahl

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There's is probably an argument for dropping the dedicated AD for an MV7 microphone and actually just getting an RME ADI-2 DAC Fs, since the AD is just for occasional streaming, gaming and video calls.
 
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