RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE - RIAA mode measurements

[pkane]

I am considering buying a luxury device rather than buying a device for 100 EUR, so I want to know exactly what is offered for sale.

I recently bought a phonograph cartridge for 1500 EUR, so not the cheapest product, directly from the manufacturer - a leading manufacturer in the industry, 100 years of tradition. I expected professionalism in customer service. It took 4 complaints for the manufacturer to send all the elements of the offered product.
It took a month.

You’re looking in the wrong direction and asking on the wrong forum. Aside from that, all your “shortcomings” stem from you not understanding the device being discussed. I’m sure you can find a phono stage for a few hundred thousand dollars that will have a dedicated ground screw. I suggest you get that one.

 

[Aero]

I’m sure you can find a phono stage for a few hundred thousand dollars that will have a dedicated ground screw. I suggest you get that one.

This is exactly what happened to me.

I spent 1500 EUR and I couldn't use the item because the manufacturer forgot to include 2 screws. It took them a month to send the correct screws needed.

I don't see a user manual in my language on the manufacturer's website, and the device is quite complicated, so I prefer to ask the manufacturer if they will include a user manual in my language, or if after opening the box it turns out that there is no such manual and I will waste time sending the device back, because the manufacturer wants to sell the device in my country, but does not include a user manual in the language of that country.

I prefer to know this before buying.

 

[pkane]

This is exactly what happened to me.

I spent 1500 EUR and I couldn't use the item because the manufacturer forgot to include 2 screws. It took them a month to send the correct screws needed.

I don't see a user manual in my language on the manufacturer's website, and the device is quite complicated, so I prefer to ask the manufacturer if they will include a user manual in my language, or if after opening the box it turns out that there is no such manual and I will waste time sending the device back, because the manufacturer wants to sell the device in my country, but does not include a user manual in the language of that country.

I prefer to know this before buying.

You have already discovered that there is no dedicated ground screw or manual in Polish. Why are you still posting here?

 

[NTK]

If only someone instead spends 10% of the time he spent ranting on internet forum on doing his due diligence first ...

 

[unpluggged]

I am considering buying a luxury device

You are looking at the wrong item.

I prefer to ask the manufacturer if they will include a user manual in my language

If your local regulations require providing instructions in your local language, then it's up to the importer/distributor/seller to provide such a manual, and not a manufacturer's responsibility.

Now that you went on making further ridiculous demands, my suspicion turned into confidence. You came here just for the sake of trolling, szanowny panie.

 

[Aero]

You are looking at the wrong item.


If your local regulations require providing instructions in your local language, then it's up to the importer/distributor/seller to provide such a manual, and not a manufacturer's responsibility.

I think it is also in the manufacturer's interest to place the user manual in multiple languages on their website.
Why they haven't done this yet is beyond me.
Very unprofessional.

 

[LTig]

I think it is also in the manufacturer's interest to place the user manual in multiple languages on their website.
Why they haven't done this yet is beyond me.
Very unprofessional.

Nope. They sell to the professional market (B2B = business to business), where the regulations are not as strict as selling to private people. The professional audio field (as most other technical oriented fields) is english centric, because almost everybody working in this field can read technical english (if not it's hard). Supplying many languages costs money which increases the price per unit significantly, as the number of units sold is rather small compared to typical consumer goods.

My employer sells NMR spectrometers to industry and universities, and we supply manuals in English and some in German (native) language. No polish, spanish, italian, ...

 

[KSTR]

I think it is also in the manufacturer's interest to place the user manual in multiple languages on their website.
Why they haven't done this yet is beyond me.
Very unprofessional.

Obviously, you are able to write posts in English or use a translator.
I fail to see the issue. I just translated the English manual to Polish with Google Translate, for free, within seconds.

 

[Aero]

Nope. They sell to the professional market (B2B = business to business), where the regulations are not as strict as selling to private people

Browsing through their offer I see that most of the devices are aimed at the B2B market.
However, the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE product page suggests that this is also, and perhaps primarily, a product aimed at the consumer market.

 

[DrCWO]

My proposal is to stop answering to this - in my eyes - completely useless discussion.
It's just unnecessary spam in my inbox

 

[LTig]

Browsing through their offer I see that most of the devices are aimed at the B2B market.
However, the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE product page suggests that this is also, and perhaps primarily, a product aimed at the consumer market.

I see one pic with a pro device below the turntable, and another pic with a scope in the background. Surely the product page suggests to professionals that they could also use it at home or elsewhere.

I think you should stop ranting here. All your points have been disputed so far, and if you now come with new "critic" everybody sees you're just trolling.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Browsing through their offer I see that most of the devices are aimed at the B2B market.
However, the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE product page suggests that this is also, and perhaps primarily, a product aimed at the consumer market.

View attachment 422160

But let's be fair here: how many consumers who are running down to their local Best Buy to purchase consumer audio gear also happen to have a ~$3,000 Waldorf Iridium 16-Voice Digital Polyphonic Synthesizer as part of their home setup?

Even their "consumer photo" still shouts that their expanded target includes audio enthusiasts who are seeking to incorporate professional-quality studio equipment into their home / office; and that their target is neither those seeking mass-produced gear or high-end "audiophile" (luxury) equipment.

 

[Aero]

Ok, I know everything I wanted to know. Now all that's left is to make a decision.

 

[Holmz]

Ok, I know everything …

Yep.

 

[Jimbob54]

This is not RME support forum or customer service department . Let's not treat it as such .

If you have a question to the manufacturer , please contact them directly , not call them out on this public forum .

Thanks

 

[Jimbob54]

Ok, I know everything I wanted to know. Now all that's left is to make a decision.

Good because you're not posting on here anymore.

 

[jwdevos]

@DrCWO Thank you for the informative post about your phono setup in post #140 in this thread.. I am interested in doing something similar. How did you achieve routing the analog phono input with the RME's RIAA through your Roon convolver?
I've yet to acquire the RME device because I need to finish my homework first. I've tried to glean the RME manual for information about routing inputs and outputs. I was thinking I could maybe do this with a PC attached like you would do with a more standard audio interface, but I couldn't find any details about such a procedure. Is it maybe some magic you added through the rooExtend device? Could you elaborate some more on how you've connected things? I am assuming you have something that runs the main Roon software, with the RME attached to it.

Some more context about what I am trying to achieve for those interested. I bought Mitch Barnett's DSP book to educate myself about frequency domain and time domain corrections. The book is about Acourate but I am currently planning to use Audiolense.
I run a passively cooled Windows 11 PC with Roon (besides Streacom some nice chassis are also made by HDPLEX). I'm somewhere in the process of building Neurochrome Modulus-686 amplifier, and once it's finished I'm gonna shop for a pair of Revel F208's.
I play mostly Tidal through Roon, some FLAC files from a NAS, and sadly some MP3's for a bunch of material that I can't source in higher quality anywhere.

My spouse would really appreciate the ability to connect her turntable. She'd also like to use Spotify with Roon which is a whole different discussion.
I need to investigate the rooExtend device more, maybe it fits my scenario. I was looking at the Hang Loose Convolver for implementing the room correction, but if Roon can somehow do everything, convolution might as well be implemented there.

The last remaining requirement is streaming audio from a different device, like an iPad or a Windows or macOS laptop. For things like YouTube, Netflix or watching a file through VLC. I don't know how to hook that up to the RME and run it through the convolver on a different PC. If this requirement can't be met, it's not a showstopper for me, but it's definitely a nice to have.

 

[DrCWO]

@DrCWO Thank you for the informative post about your phono setup in post #140 in this thread.. I am interested in doing something similar. How did you achieve routing the analog phono input with the RME's RIAA through your Roon convolver

I will answer you in detail during the next few days. Stay tuned.
Best DrCWO

 

[DrCWO]

Hi @jwdevos
let me first line out the things you need and the physical connections.

You need:

• A Roon Core (which you already have)
• RME ADI-2/4
• rooExtend-Box or a DIY rooExtend based on a Raspberry PI4. I will reference both as rooExtend
• I also recommend getting my rooExtension rooADI for controlling the device volume of the ADI-2/4 directly from Roon.

You connect:

• Roon Core to rooExtend with an Ethernet cable (I don't recommend WiFi for Roon)
• rooExtend to RME ADI-2/4 with a USB cable
• Turntable to analog input of ADI-2/4.
• Amplifier to analog output of ADI-2/4. I directly connected a NCx500 amplifier (without any preamp) to the XLR output of the ADI-2/4. My NCx500 is a custom build but this one will also be fine for a perfectly transparent system.

With this setup you can use the ADI-2/4 as a Roon Playback device if you enable Roon Bridge in the License Manager of your rooExtend

The prerequisite for this is that the ADI-2/4 is in USB mode (stereo or multichannel). Note that the mode of the ADI-2/4 can only be switched if you unplug the USB cable for switching. I will give some more info regarding multichannel later.
In this scenario the device playback volume can be controlled from Roon using my Roon Extension rooADI. To enable it on your rooExtend you have to get a License Key. Detailed Instructions how to set it up you find in the rooExtend-Box Manual in my Download Area.

For routing external sources via Roon to your ADI-2/4 you need to license my rooPlay Roon Extension on your rooExtend.
With rooPlay you can:

• Play music from your iPhone directly through Roon.
• Play LPs through Roon (using the ADI-2/4 phono stage).
• Record from LP or other analog or digital sources to a USB-stick in FLAC up to 24/192.
• Play music CDs through Roon without ripping (you need a USB CD-Rom drive for that or the Apple Super Drive).
• Play various audio test signals offered by rooPlay.

At the moment rooPlay works by setting up a Special Radio Station in Roon. This is also documented in detail in the rooExtend-Box Manual. With the next release the Roon Audio API will be used which will make setup easier.

Using rooPlay this is the signal flow for iPhone playback:
iPhone --> Airplay --> rooPlay (on rooExtend) --> Special Radio Station --> Roon Core (with DSP) --> Roon Bridge (on rooExtend) --> ADI-2/4 DAC

Using the Analog input of the ADI-2/4 this is the signal flow:
Turntable --> ADI-2/4 analog in --> rooPlay (on rooExtend) --> Special Radio Station --> Roon Core (with DSP) --> Roon Bridge (on rooExtend) --> ADI-2/4 DAC

With iPhone playback Roon automatically starts if you start playback on the iPhone. Using the turntable the easiest way is to set up a second Special Radio Station for the turntable. Starting playback from this Special Radio Station in Roon will automatically send your turntable signal to Roon.

Advantage of rooPlay is that it works with high resolution (24/192) for the analog input and that you can use the Roon DSPs also for iPhone and turntable playback which is very nice

But there are even more possibilities!
As the ADI-2/4 supports multichannel playback and has two built in Stereo DACs, you can create an active 2 x 2 system with it. This is what I did. In my setup the XLR outputs of the ADI-2/4 drive the NCx500 for my horns and the TRS outputs drive my active subwoofers. In Roon you can set up convolution filters (Room correction) with crossover that creates the four output signals. If you like you can use Acourate for creating the convolution filters and crossover.

I posted some information about my setup and also some measurements of the active 2 x 2 setup here.

Acourate is not an easy to use tool but the result is stunning. I also like to give you a pointer to my signal path in the linked thread above. In multichannel mode the ADI-2/4 offers eight channels. The convolution filters have to be designed to offer all eight channels but only four of them are used. Inserting a four channel convolution only, the other channels show full volume with random output at the ADI-2/4 which I disliked. So I inserted empty convolution filters for those channels.

Hope you enjoy
Best DrCWO

 

[jwdevos]

Hi @DrCWO , Such a detailed answer, thank you very much. It's much appreciated and you've already helped me a lot. I also found a couple of your videos about the different features enlightening, not just about the rooExtend product but also about the RME, and some of the theory around DSP and volume control in general.

In the meantime I pulled the trigger on the DAC. The ADI-2/4 Pro SE has been playing magnificently in the living room since yesterday. This is not your regular DAC from Topping or SMSL for example. There's definitely a learning curve involved.

I understand all your advice so far. It looks like rooExtend might be the solution for all my use cases. With the upcoming API updates for Roon things can only get better. It would be nice to have native bridge device support, instead of having to rely on the radio station input and incurring additional latency for that.

I am not ready yet to go all in and get fully locked in into the Roon ecosystem. That's not really because I don't like Roon (except the missing native Spotify support, a Wiim can do that so why can't Roon..) but more because I am apprehensive to give away so much influence to a single company. On the other hand, if it solves all problems in a good way I might let go of this principle. But still, with software it's scary. Hardware you can buy and if you're lucky it keeps working and you don't need support. Software comes with recurring costs and keeps changing, possibly into a direction you can't live with.

First things first though, learning more about RME and room correction, and just testing things and having fun. I'm also wondering if I can somehow take the analog input on the RME, apply RIAA, than use that as an input interface on my PC for recording, but instead route it through a convolver with something like VB-Audio Matrix.

In theory, do all of the rooExtend plug-ins require a separate physical box? I have a Windows PC that runs Roon, and the RME DAC connected straight to the PC in USB mode (stereo). Is there a reason why I couldn't use rooADI in this setup? I'm not trying to criticize, just wondering about implementation details and possibilities.

The separate box has an advantage too though, assuming the electronics are quiet. I could run the Roon core somewhere else and remove the PC from the hifi rack. The PC isn't bad, but I've tried two options from Streacom and HDPLEX now, and I can hear the switching noise. Not noise that gets induced into the music from switching supplies (that's fully clean thanks to the RME DAC and my amp), but literally noise straight from the components. With the Streacom, I can hear some motherboard components. With the HDPLEX, I can hear the PSU.

To conclude, I suspect I will spend a lot of time and some money, then decide you already solved the problem in the best way possible. That just leaves the best way to generate my filters, the time investment for Acourate might be unrealistic for me in the short term.

Kind regards,
Jaap