RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE - RIAA mode measurements

[Veri]

Very nicely done. Didn't know there is an RIAA mode. I promoted to home page.

It's only on this latest model (which I suppose has a bit more horsepower than the previous ones). But it's a newly added feature

 

[sarumbear]

So no, it's definitely NOT a gadget.

Well done !

You are definitely a bona fide reviewer.

Well done to you too! ​

 

[Purité Audio]

But for MC carts?
Keith

 

[sarumbear]

But for MC carts?
Keith

Don't use it. You can't expect any device to suit to everything. There are many MM only phone preamps on the market as well.

 

[badboygolf16v]

Thanks for the measurements, very interesting. Shows how good the Cambridge Audio Solo is.

Would be interesting for @MC_RME to comment.

Regarding MC carts I guess a step-up trafo would do the trick?

 

[Jas0_0]

This is an amazing box of tricks.

Now all RME needs to do is make one of these with the option to have the mic amps from the Fireface series on the analogue inputs, and it would keep users of MC carts (like me) happy too.

Nice review, thanks.

[Edit: adding a remote and dynamic loudness to the Fireface UCX II would also make me happy, though as that range is even more pro oriented, seems unlikely]

 

[Tom C]

Yeah, how come I can’t just use an SUT for MC cart, like every other phono I’ve used?

 

[LTig]

But for MC carts?
Keith

Use a separate SUT or phono prepre. I don't know though if the latter is still available. When MC pickups came on the market back in the 70ies you could get them. But they are easy to DIY using two AD797 (one per channel) with some 20 to 30 dB linear gain (depending on the output level of the pickup).

 

[AudioSceptic]

Very nicely done. Didn't know there is an RIAA mode. I promoted to home page.

Isn't this (Pro SE) a new model, so why would you know? I see the price will be over £2k, but you get what you pay for, although it's a shame the RIAA option doesn't cater for MC.

 

[badboygolf16v]

The E1DA Cosmos Scaler might work as an active MC head amp?

 

[morillon]

if in mm it is rather standard at 47k..,
there are very important impedance stories mc...
the idea of keeping the mc part external is rather welcome to be really suitable
;-)

 

[PeteL]

Thanks for the measurements, very interesting. Shows how good the Cambridge Audio Solo is.

Would be interesting for @MC_RME to comment.

Regarding MC carts I guess a step-up trafo would do the trick?

Yes it would. They are not cheaper than full fledge preamps tough.

 

[SoundsGood2Me]

@Rja4000 - Well done! Thank You so much for your well detailed tests, that was a ton of work, and well written!

And my RME-ADI2 Pro FS R is the Swiss Army knife of my system and I am VERY satisfied with the platform - MUCH bang for the buck and it sounds awesome.

Please keep sharing!

 

[restorer-john]

We have 15dB headroom above 5mV, which is probably more than enough.

If that is a correct number, the RME falls flat on its face as an RIAA stage.

Even the very worst of 13 RIAA stages in preamps/integrateds I measured recently, had nearly 28dB of overload margin with respect to its rated sensitivity. Even a scavenged RIAA stage from a cheap plastic AT turntable managed 32mV overload!

15dB over 5mV means the front end is overloading at 28mV @1kHz.

 

[HerbertWest]

If that is a correct number, the RME falls flat on its face as an RIAA stage.

Even the very worst of 13 RIAA stages in preamps/integrateds I measured recently, had nearly 28dB of overload margin with respect to its rated sensitivity. Even a scavenged RIAA stage from a cheap plastic AT turntable managed 32mV overload!

15dB over 5mV means the front end is overloading at 28mV @1kHz.

Page 108 in the manual has more context about the riaa mode (copying from it, all rights to RME of course):

The available digital headroom scales with the selected gain, and is visible and can be checked in the level meter at any time, i.e. is adjustable by the user according to personal preference. Due to the unusual concept of the ADI-2/4 Pro SE, the analog headroom is beyond good and evil – based on 5 mV it’s 41.3 dB (580 mV).

I’m sure @MC_RME can expand further.

(I don’t own this specific model nor a turntable, but I like reading RME manuals as examples of clarity. )

 

[morillon]

(-
5mv for mm is rather at the top of the range..

-torture test lp discs are typically at +12 +15 +18 ...it has been estimated since the 1970s that a cell supporting +15 db is already a cell supporting extreme cases of daily burning.. with a good margin
)

 

[restorer-john]

the analog headroom is beyond good and evil – based on 5 mV it’s 41.3 dB (580 mV).

Typical decent quality HiFi MM RIAA stages would be around 35dB gain and offer overloads of 150mV to 300mV. That way, a 2.5-3.0mV (which was typical) input will come up to 150mV line level (which was typical). Obviously, the higheer output your cartridge is, the more you will need and the greater the output. There are plenty of MM cartridges with rated 10mV. Bear in mind that is the rating at 1kHz typical 5cm/Sec.

To be able to handle a 300mV input without overload, the front end would need rail voltages around +/-30V or so (60V peak to peak) Those RIAA stages will happily output 20V RMS.

 

[restorer-john]

torture test lp discs are typically at +12 +15 +18 ...it has been estimated since the 1970s that a cell supporting +15 db is already a cell supporting extreme cases of daily burning.. with a good margin

The 'torture test' modulations at 8/12/16dB are for low frequency tracking and less about RIAA stage overloading IME.

 

[morillon]

The 'torture test' modulations at 8/12/16dB are for low frequency tracking and less about RIAA stage overloading IME.

it was just to fuel the discussion..
in general these ranges of torture for cells are at continus , not peak, 300hz...
it is still possible to listen to a few discs that are rather heavily modulated to see what it actually does.. see if there is saturation
maybe rme did this kind of "crazy" test before integrating this option... listening somes lp of music..
I hope anyway
;-)

(with an external mc stage the situation will be further complicated by the fact that the sum of the gains mm+mc)

 

[GWolfman]

Thanks for sharing! I was trying to figure out if it was worth the money or not. Maybe when I get into recording/capturing content I can justify the price.