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RIP Onkyo..

anmpr1

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Pioneer is gone. Marantz is gone. If Onkyo goes, and Yamaha goes, where is the incentive for mass-market innovation?

It would surprise me if Yamaha exits the hi-fi business. They are part of a large group with many profit centers. Yamaha are really the last of the Japanese 'mass marketeers' of any size. Maybe Marantz, but I'm sure they don't equal Yamaha's business. Maybe pulse oximetry guy can do something with Marantz and Denon.

Panasonic has Technics, but are they doing much in the 'mass' market? Their products tend to be higher priced, and you don't really see the market penetration from them. Not like in the old days, when the brand spanned all the price points.

As far as mass market and innovation? You used to have that. Not so much, any more.
 

pavuol

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Some years ago, Pioneer teamed with Suntory distillers to produce their 'Pure Malt' series of components. The idea was to take used whiskey barrels and design some hi-fi gear out of the wood. I have no idea why they did that. But they did. I think they made a record player too, but these were the only pics I could find--speakers and an optical disc player.

View attachment 193898View attachment 193899
Funny that just yesterday or so I was flipping pages of old pdf catalogs and stumbled across these too.
Here is some two page datasheet :)
2022-03-20 14_51_09-31226757.pdf - [Pure Malt Speakers Pioneer] - SumatraPDF.jpg
2022-03-20 14_51_26-31226757.pdf - [Pure Malt Speakers Pioneer] - SumatraPDF.jpg


And some gallery of detailed photos {courtesy of Stereonet.com).

IMG_0238.thumb.JPG.108869e621102b0c12c8c4e8fc999e3f.JPG
 

anmpr1

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Funny that just yesterday or so I was flipping pages of old pdf catalogs and stumbled across these too.
Here is some two page datasheet :)
I guess it's like the girl two stools over, at the bar. The more you drink, the better the speakers sound!
 

Grog

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So what was initially $1399 now becomes $1999- no thanks. who’s going to service them?
 
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dlaloum

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We have yet to see where Voxx is going to take the three brands...

Right now they are getting them back in the game with a series of new Mass Market AVR's. Then we have what appears to be an intention to release TOTL Flagship AVR's and Prepro's - with a seperation between Pioneer and Onkyo/Integra (Pioneer gets no prepro apparently)...

What will they do in the stereo marketplace?
Will there be audiophile power amps?

Not even a hint of a clue out there.
 

anmpr1

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Pioneer used to be an interesting company. I had one of these Class A amps back in 1988. Kind of wish I kept it - they've become collector's items.
All the old stereo companies used to be interesting, because hi-fi was interesting back then. Most of the stuff today has lost any character, or if it has some design, it costs more than anyone wants to spend.

I owned the M-25 (A/B version) of the M-22. Picked it up second hand as a trade in from an audio store I used to visit. Along with its companion C-21 preamp (and a Fisher tuner I had absolutely no use for, but looked cool--see pic).

In the US these Pioneer units were sold under the 'Series 20' moniker, for reasons I didn't then, and still don't understand. I think it was mostly to differentiate the gear from the discounted mainstream Pioneer line, giving storefront dealers something they could make a profit on as opposed to the mail order discounters.

Unfortunately, the C-21 developed a lot of problems, with intermittent connections and noisy pots. The amplifier appeared to work OK, at least for the six months or so I owned the pair.

Functionally I didn't find any clear advantage to the Series 20 amp and preamp over Pioneer's earlier Spec gear, or even their higher end integrated amplifier line from the mid-'70s. In fact the preamp was bare bones, for a Pioneer unit.

Fisher of course went south after Avery sold the company. Rumor had it that he was difficult to work with, and dealers didn't like the franchise as they kept coming out with new models before stores could stock the old stuff. Anyhow, Fisher pretty much became a Radio Shack sort of outfit, selling rebranded 'generic' Japanese gear. Early US made Fisher tube gear is through the roof now, like any early tube stuff.


FM-90-X.jpg
 

mhardy6647

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All the old stereo companies used to be interesting, because hi-fi was interesting back then. Most of the stuff today has lost any character, or if it has some design, it costs more than anyone wants to spend.

I owned the M-25 (A/B version) of the M-22. Picked it up second hand as a trade in from an audio store I used to visit. Along with its companion C-21 preamp (and a Fisher tuner I had absolutely no use for, but looked cool--see pic).

In the US these Pioneer units were sold under the 'Series 20' moniker, for reasons I didn't then, and still don't understand. I think it was mostly to differentiate the gear from the discounted mainstream Pioneer line, giving storefront dealers something they could make a profit on as opposed to the mail order discounters.

Unfortunately, the C-21 developed a lot of problems, with intermittent connections and noisy pots. The amplifier appeared to work OK, at least for the six months or so I owned the pair.

Functionally I didn't find any clear advantage to the Series 20 amp and preamp over Pioneer's earlier Spec gear, or even their higher end integrated amplifier line from the mid-'70s. In fact the preamp was bare bones, for a Pioneer unit.

Fisher of course went south after Avery sold the company. Rumor had it that he was difficult to work with, and dealers didn't like the franchise as they kept coming out with new models before stores could stock the old stuff. Anyhow, Fisher pretty much became a Radio Shack sort of outfit, selling rebranded 'generic' Japanese gear. Early US made Fisher tube gear is through the roof now, like any early tube stuff.


View attachment 197378
Well, the Fisher brand ended up being purchased by Sanyo. Some of the Sanyo-era components were actually pretty good, although they, of course, had approximately zero audiophile cred.

I do like the Fisher tuners of the '50s (and '60s), but -- FWIW -- the HH Scott and Sherwood tuners of the same era are also awfully nice. Better still, for a long time, the Sherwoods were "sleepers", affording excellent sound quality at bargain prices. That is no longer the case, although I think one'll still pay a premium for HH Scott & Fisher vacuum tube tuners today vs. the Sherwoods.

 

Khmike

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regarding the hdmi board failures, it only concerns 3-4 small caps that dried up over time. there is a detailed description of how to fix it all on avsforum.com
Best to follow and replace all the caps mentioned in several factory bulletins - might as well do them all to avoid repeated trips inside.
Pioneer is gone. Marantz is gone. If Onkyo goes, and Yamaha goes, where is the incentive for mass-market innovation?
Pioneer, Onkyo and Teac got sucked into the Gibson black hole, but Denon and Marantz are ok, even after the recent SU sale. Pioneer DJ recently broke away from "Pioneer" proper but there are still parts available, so there's that.
 

anmpr1

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Teac got sucked into the Gibson black hole...
For a while Teac had no obvious US distribution, but now appear to be back on-line with a range of 'mini' styled, Hypex based amplifiers. Also offering a dual well cassette deck for the die-hard (sans record-mode Dolby B).

https://teac-usa.com/

For their part, Gibson seems to be on track. Which may be hard to believe. After being assimilated into the KKR investment Borg, new management appears to be more focused, concentrating on their various guitar related brands. Along with resurrecting Kramer and, apparently, the headless Steinberger, KRK monitor loudspeakers, Mesa Engineering, and some 'new' old Maestros. From personal experience, the latest Epiphones are first rate (at their now less than inexpensive inflationary price point), and Gibsons are... well, they are still Gibsons.

The guitar maker sloughed off legacy phono cartridge maker Stanton, a brand they ran into the ground (to no one's surprise), offloading the hapless operation to an outfit called InMusic. But from the looks of it, Stanton remains dead as a door-nail. This, in the middle of the analog record 'resurgence', tells you all you probably need to know about the new owners. Good work, for sure.

If I was the new Denon owner (did he make the buy, yet?), I'd aquire Stanton, re-release their 681/881/981 series, along with new versions of the nicer Denon record players. How retro-cool would that be? Or just forget the hi-fi thing altogether, and stick with finger mounted pulse oximeters. Those will more likely actually make him some money, and certainly cause him less headaches.


dp.jpg
 

mhardy6647

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Chrispy

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... and another :)

Info on the Onkyo bankruptcy, FWIW.
In that vein, an updated press release version at Audioholics https://www.audioholics.com/news/despite-bankruptcy-onkyo-pioneer-elite-av-drives-on

Whether this really works out we'll see. Does make me wonder just what the role of the bankruptcy of Onkyo Japan will be in the long run....and is it more a chapter 11 type bankruptcy or chapter 7 (US bankruptcy types). If Onkyo Japan doesn't survive does Voxx simply gain their share by default or ?
 

valerianf

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"PAC...manages all product development, the world-class engineering team and their prowess at Onkyo, sales, marketing, distribution, and all intellectual property of Onkyo’s home entertainment business."
In the coming months we will see if PAC is really independent from Onkyo Japan.
Do we have an exemple of an audio brand that disappeared (i.e: by bankruptcy) but the brand and equipment still exist?
 

dlaloum

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For a while Teac had no obvious US distribution, but now appear to be back on-line with a range of 'mini' styled, Hypex based amplifiers. Also offering a dual well cassette deck for the die-hard (sans record-mode Dolby B).

https://teac-usa.com/

For their part, Gibson seems to be on track. Which may be hard to believe. After being assimilated into the KKR investment Borg, new management appears to be more focused, concentrating on their various guitar related brands. Along with resurrecting Kramer and, apparently, the headless Steinberger, KRK monitor loudspeakers, Mesa Engineering, and some 'new' old Maestros. From personal experience, the latest Epiphones are first rate (at their now less than inexpensive inflationary price point), and Gibsons are... well, they are still Gibsons.

The guitar maker sloughed off legacy phono cartridge maker Stanton, a brand they ran into the ground (to no one's surprise), offloading the hapless operation to an outfit called InMusic. But from the looks of it, Stanton remains dead as a door-nail. This, in the middle of the analog record 'resurgence', tells you all you probably need to know about the new owners. Good work, for sure.

If I was the new Denon owner (did he make the buy, yet?), I'd aquire Stanton, re-release their 681/881/981 series, along with new versions of the nicer Denon record players. How retro-cool would that be? Or just forget the hi-fi thing altogether, and stick with finger mounted pulse oximeters. Those will more likely actually make him some money, and certainly cause him less headaches.


View attachment 199816
Interestingly the 881/981's with their hardened aluminium cantilevers, managed a very low effective mass - on a par with some of the exotic cantilevers (well, the heavier ones anyway :) )

And given that the tech was more basic - it should be viable to bring it back today.... you would think!
 

anmpr1

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Interestingly the 881/981's with their hardened aluminium cantilevers, managed a very low effective mass - on a par with some of the exotic cantilevers (well, the heavier ones anyway :) )

And given that the tech was more basic - it should be viable to bring it back today.... you would think!
Stanton used samarium cobalt magnets which tended to reduce the mass, given the strength of the magnetic field provided, when compared to other standard magnets.

881/981 were MM, whereas the 681 series were moving iron type. I have a NOS XV15-1200E Pickering (equivalent to the Stanton 681eee). It's OK, but has a 'hard or brittle' sound in the midrange (if that makes any sense). I don't currently own an 881 (same as Pickering XSV series), but my memory tells me they were much better cartridges than the older 681/XV15 series.
 

dlaloum

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Stanton used samarium cobalt magnets which tended to reduce the mass, given the strength of the magnetic field provided, when compared to other standard magnets.

881/981 were MM, whereas the 681 series were moving iron type. I have a NOS XV15-1200E Pickering (equivalent to the Stanton 681eee). It's OK, but has a 'hard or brittle' sound in the midrange (if that makes any sense). I don't currently own an 881 (same as Pickering XSV series), but my memory tells me they were much better cartridges than the older 681/XV15 series.
I have an 881, and also a low output 980... they use the same needle - the low output one is interesting, it is effectively the same as LO MC's just in MM form - and yes they sound excellent...

Haven't rotated them onto the turntable in a few years - the needle has seen very little use (10's of hours max)

The brittle sound might be related to the cantilever resonance... - and might be resolvable with an adjustment to the loading... (maybe) - would require measurement!
 

Tks

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Onkyo isn't going away guys, it's just a couple of subsidiary brands their shutting down. Here is a summary of their future plans:

"New ventures planned include sales of select items at an online store; another online venture selling anime items; sales of a custom in-ear monitor solution; sales of sake, wine, and beer aged with music applied to vibration actuators attached to their aging barrels; a new hearing aid business; a new music playback app; a speech recognition system; some kind of call center system; and the licensing of certain Onkyo technologies to third-party brands."

onkyo-vibtone.jpg

I would like to taste sake that listened to post-rock.

Getting into audio I was treated to some of the most weird sorts of things people do with audio and music. Some of it just absolutely silly and hilarious. But those are usually small companies or simply individuals making the most ridiculous claims.

"Music applied to vibration actuators attached to their aging barrels". Literally don't think I could have come up with such a ridiculous thing in my lifetime. The thing that makes it astounding is this isnt exactly a boutique brand or some single person run operation.
 
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