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REW and my room.

*sigh*

Normally it would be possible to simulate what the combined effect of subwoofer + L + R speakers. You just add them. But:

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This is a comparison of your current subwoofer measurement (dark blue) with your previous measurement (lighter blue). It is obvious that the new measurement of your sub does not have a LPF applied. Yes, it has a timing reference. But it's not how you are using your sub, is it?

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As a result, when you sum the sub + L + R, the appearance is different to your previous combined measurement.

What do you want us to look at?
 
Hey ChatGPT is kinda fun.

It suggests the ITDG of my room is over 100ms. Predicts dry analytical sound.

I’m a bit confused on the ITDG in room acoustics. Am I trying to match the gap of recording spaces and venues? Or have a large enough gap to let the recorded venues ITDG happen before my rooms.

Fun!
 
Oh boy, thought I was on the right track with this one.

The sub, a 25 year old Sony SA-W3000. Frequency knob turned to lowest 50hz. Speaker wire from amp to sub to speakers.

I’m trying to get the measurement process correct.
 
All right let's take a quick look.

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The volume of your room is 2880 ft^3 (81.55 m^3). The T30 from your measurements is 210ms. So the Schroder freq is 2000 * (T30/V) = 102Hz. The transition zone ends at 4Fs, so 408Hz. Using this information I have drawn a couple of lines in your FR. You expect everything above the transition zone (408Hz) to mirror the published in-room response of your speaker, and here we see a problem - a rising treble response above 3kHz.

You did not say what speaker you are using, so I can't google for a published measurement. But there is a possibility this could be a measurement artefact, e.g. using the mic at the wrong orientation with the wrong cal file loaded.

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This is a vector average of your main speakers with no sub (purple) compared to the actual measurement of your system WITH the sub. I am doing it this way to avoid having to post too many graphs.

No sub vs. sub is to show the effect of the sub. It looks as if your sub is rolling off too early, about 40Hz. Unless it's a very small sub, it shouldn't be doing this. It is more likely that your sub is poorly placed in the room.

There is a dip in your FR at about 200Hz. This is likely SBIR. If you want to diagnose it, push your speakers closer to the wall and see if it shifts upwards.

Above 2kHz, it appears that the vector average of both speakers CURES the rising freq response mentioned earlier. This looks more like what a well tuned system should look like.

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The acoustics of your room are quite good. No loud reflections in the Haas fusion window.

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The RT60 is well below the tolerance limits for a room of your volume. This would sound too dry for most people and have the effect of reducing ambience and sometimes subjective clarity. But it's also a matter of preference and application, so if you are a studio or if you like that sound, then it's fine. I can tell this room is extensively treated because this kind of low decay time is well below what is achievable without room treatment.

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Very impressive!

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That subwoofer looks like it's adequately time aligned to the L/R speakers.

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The L/R speakers themselves seem to be nice and symmetrical with the heads and tails matching each other and the decay time pretty short.

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And the IACC confirms that L/R are virtually identical. This, along with the step response, tells me that they are symmetrically placed in the room.

Overall it's a pretty good result. To do list:

1. Find out why you are losing so much bass below 40Hz.
2. Consider pushing your speakers closer to the wall
3. Find out what is happening with the top end. Place your mic 1m from the speaker, on-axis to the tweeter and pointing towards the speaker, and take a sweep.
 
Keith, thank you for taking the time. Really appreciate your analysis.

1. 12ftx8ft hole in the rear side boundary. Leads to other side of the basement.

2. I’ve consider moving the speakers from 8ft from the front wall to 5ft. I’m concerned it will introduce front wall reflections into the early timing zone. And the depth I’m experiencing now, what will come of it.

3. Maybe hardware related. I haven’t shared my rig as I’m sure it wouldn’t measure well.
Anyways. Umik -1 to pc - wooaudio wa2 preamp with unmatched Russian drivers - Classdaudio.com sds224 power amp or whatever their low power number unit was. Speakers Focal chorus 807v. Sub garbage Sony home theatre unit from 2005. Cables Canare 2t2 and 4s11 run high pass through the sub.

The room is heavily treated. Everything is framed up and awaiting the “this is acceptable” to be covered in fr701.

To be honest, I heard the potential, bought a mic, a couple text books. Didn’t know where to start so decay and itdg is where I focused. Seemed like the biggest returns there.

I do feel I’m on the edge of losing ambience in some genres.

Anyways, I’m sorry if I can’t match the technical tone around here. Honestly, I’m a guy on a basement discovering the power of properly implemented stereo.

Thanks for listening
 
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Ok, my understanding - the peak around 4-6ms fused to the direct sound. Possible tone defects. Could add some weight (reinforcement?) to the direct sound. Low enough in db.

The peak at 16ms outside of the fusion zone and into the envelopment. I checked the frequency and it is pretty consistent 10k and down. I’m not sure if that means it’s a big flat surface and a broadband specular return, or the diy stepped diffusers are doing diffuser stuff.

Then the peak at 20ms already outside the zone and low enough not to worry.

Rambles.
 
Honestly, I’m a guy on a basement discovering the power of properly implemented stereo.
Welcome. We meet Tuesdays. New guy brings beer.
 
Subjective Thought Sunday. Dac filters.

Topping E30 II lite filters.

Using the measurements of the filters from another thread, I had previously landed on F2 SD sharp. Sounds great.

Quick audition of F5 LD short and initial thoughts. The edge of each element (studio stuffs) blends more, into the element next to it. Pleasing.

F2 really had defined edges (less air?) around each element. Almost pushing your ear to pick it apart. Different, maybe better for live music.

I’ll leave it there.

Thanks for listening.
 
In general, if you want a good, detailed consultation based on your measurement results, chat jpt can read REW files and can clearly answer any of your measurement-related questions.
Thanks for this suggestion. AI Guy is fun to run the measurements by.
 
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AI guy and I have been chatting about timing and levels after the initial ITDG event. Particularly, a post ITDG gap before the secondary spatial onset. <-- AI guys words.

I use Foreigner Urgent as a reference for this. That zap reverb sound. At the moment, the reverb sound locates about a foot behind my head.

Can i shape the perceived distance of this sound? Is this my room coming into the picture too early?

Ai guy suggests create a small SPL dip at 20-25ms then have it come back at that steady -35 - -38db level to push it back.

Fun stuff.
 
Updated Mdat. Extended the ceiling treatment behind the listening position.

Did my best to get the mic in the same spot. Not sure how a difference would show up.


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Tamed the 16ms event a few Db.

Perceived increase of spaciousness.

What fun!
 
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Peaks and plateaus. on the ETC there are events around 20ms, 28ms and 42ms. Each followed by a downward slope and a moderate plateau. Can these peaks be considered "location" or timing cues for perceptual zones based on my room geometry? ASW, Transition?, LEV.
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This is fun!
 
Not having a reference, not sure where the room is headed, but this does sound different.

New Mdat.

Both zero and 90 degree calibration measurements.


Added to the ceiling treatment, moved the subwoofer.

10k hz anomaly is there some days measurements, some not. Maybe the led lights?

Speakers - Focal Chorus 807v

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Nothing but fun!
 
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