Reviewer's Music

[RayDunzl]

Looks colored to me.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/wavac-sh-833-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

Price: $350,000/pair.

I can do a reasonable imitation of that here, and it's paid for.

 

[fas42]

Yep, it's at an extreme end of this hobby - but it manages to make some recordings "work", for those who pursue that goal. So, it's interesting in the context of the relationship between reviewers, gear and recordings used for to assess them.

 

[amirm]

Here's a review of equipment that breaks a lot of the rules by which people on this forum live by, http://www.stereophile.com/content/wavac-sh-833-monoblock-power-amplifier-page-2. But the track used, by the Mamas and the Papas, and the description of the rendition of the flute says why people live with these gear.

The tracks by this group can be almost unbearable to listen to, depending on the state of the system - a result of when and the way they were recorded.

First let me say that I like to encourage this kind of discussion. It is important to see if we land on some consensus on these tracks across different systems and people.

On your observation, here is what the review says:

"In the bridge of the Mamas and the Papas' "California Dreamin' " there's a flute solo that, if you've heard it once, you've heard it a thousand times. Me, I've heard it a million times. Yet when I heard that flute through the SH-833s during one of my many "I wonder what that record sounds like through these amps..." sessions, I was taken by complete surprise. I literally sat up, taking notice of that flute as never before."

That is my observation on my system. To wit, I am pretty sure it was a human playing that flute and not a robot or a dog!

Really, this *is* a thin sounding record/track. The flute stands out a bit as not sounding like that. In a system that emphasizes its sound at the expense of high frequencies it may even sound better than it does on mine. But it is not a terrible recording. It is just far from any reference or quality recording. If I want to enjoy the music, I will play it. If I want to enjoy the recording, I would not.

 

[amirm]

Looks colored to me.

Holy batman! You can say that again! Our posts crossed but I guessed that coloration would help that track.

Price:

$350,000/pair.

Good grief. I can hire a bunch of bands to play live for me for weeks on end for that kind of price!

 

[amirm]

Went to search for the next selection and he says this:

"After sitting through a "top loader" UK pressing of The Beatles ("The White Album")—one of the first records I played through the Wavacs—I was left in awe. Objectively speaking, the bottom end was fuller than I'm used to and the top was somewhat on the mellow side, though not to the point of sounding muted or dull. It was as if the highest frequencies on this somewhat brash recording, which usually sounds ragged and somewhat aggressive, had been perfectly polished rather than lopped off. Everything that was supposed to be there was there, while everything you'd want removed was gone."

That tilted down response results in exactly that. Listening to the album it indeed has a harsh edge. I can fix that with EQ hell of a lot cheaper than putting in a colored amp that does that to every piece of music.

 

[amirm]

Next he says:

"That's because the SH-833s met challenges such as The Clash's masterfully recorded London Calling (LP, CBS CLASH3) by rendering the drum kit with sufficient slam and crackle to avoid the sensation of muffled softness, while adding weight to each percussive hit—whether cymbals, toms, snare, or kick drum. The overall effect was to make the kit sound far more like a live event than I was used to experiencing from this disc, even though it ever so slightly mellowed the tonal expression at the very top."

It is a very flat and uninteresting track. If I turn the volume up though I can rattle the whole house getting what he is hearing through that bass boosted amp. But it still does not salvage it in the least.

 

[amirm]

"Yet when I put on something meant to be lively, rocking, and intimate, such as Memphis Slim's Tribute to Big Bill Broonzy, LeRoy Carr, Cow Cow Davenport, Curtis Jones, Jazz Gillum (LP, Candid 9023), recorded at Nola Penthouse Studios in 1961, the SH-833s delivered the singer's voice and piano slightly bright and forward, with the crispness and lightness to which I was accustomed but with a noticeably creamier and more transparent midrange that made this familiar recording sound far more convincing and translucent than I'd ever heard it.
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/wavac-sh-833-monoblock-power-amplifier-page-3#06YLK7RYCGR0hI5v.99"

It is all that MF says. Fun music. Makes you want to get up and dance!

It has high clarity with distinct space between all the instruments.

 

[tomelex]

Simple music means less IMD, means you hear it better because it was easier to place on the recorded medium too, and that's why they play a lot of simple stuff at shows, it holds down the formation of IMD which is irritatingly heard, especially the higher sum frequencies

 

[amirm]

Colin post a review of his amplifier here: http://theaudiophileman.com/seca-20/

So I went digging for music :
This effect was even better realised in Bobby Darren’s original pressing of Mack the Knife. The tonal qualities of the brass was something to behold. Saxes were clear and consistent with a brilliant clarity while trumpets had a brassy quality that added a sheen to the arrangement.

OK there must be a mistake here. This recording sounds like someone held the microphone under water or something! It is a really bad analog recording. Anyone has this music and can attest otherwise? It is hissing, buzzing, has no lows, no detail, etc.

 

[amirm]

"Turning to a more dynamic track and Hawkwind’s Space and Orgone Accumulator from the LP Space Ritual Sundown V.2. I liked the SECA’s ability to get to grips with the psyceheldic mish mash of Space. This track is a melange of frequencies, a chaotic confusion that swirls in a dreamlike state. Some amps could easily blur the output and smear it but the SECA’s focus kept the piece under control, allowing the ear to differentiate each wacked out effect. By the time the heavy guitar and drums of Orgone hit the speakers the SECA and music rocked in happy, blues-based, union that, despite the cacophony, tracked the music superbly. That is, you could easily follow the bass guitar, the electric guitar, the drums, delicate cymbals hits, harmonica and more without trying too hard. A task that some amplifiers would have found too stressful and difficult to achieve, let me tell you."

Good grief. This is worse than the last one! Calling this music "lo-fi: would be an insult to the term! It is crap, crap, crap fidelity.

 

[RayDunzl]

I think what annoys me about streaming is that it is too much like an All-You-Can-Eat Buffet.

There's always a lot there, but, for me, the what-I-wanted part is lacking.

Without the time limit, though.

 

[amirm]

Picked this review at random for an ARC pre-amp: http://www.stereophile.com/content/...-line-preamplifier-page-2#gogO0li8cpYsIxQ4.97

"I had that chance with Pure Pleasure's reissue of Paul Desmond's (with Strings) lush and lovely Desmond Blue, featuring guitarist Jim Hall, recorded in 1962 by Ray Hall (no relation) (LP, RCA Living Stereo/Pure Pleasure LSP-2438). On the original LP, the airy space of New York's Webster Hall is apparent behind the strings, which are clearly spread across the stage, Desmond and Hall well focused in front. On the reissue, there's no sense of space. It's a flat picture, strings and soloists mushed up against a plane. (It sounds like phase incoherence.) The Reference 6 revealed all of this..."

It is lush indeed. And pleasant recording. Fair amount of analog distortion of the era is present though.

I looked for another version and found this:

Sounds much warmer and with less apparent noise/distortion.

 

[amirm]

"I've just compared MoFi's vinyl remastering of Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother (LP, MFSL 1-202) with the new one from the band's own label (LP, Pink Floyd/Parlophone PFRLP5), on which a sticker proclaims "REMASTERED FROM THE ORIGINAL ANALOGUE TAPES BY JAMES GUTHRIE, JOEL PLANTE AND BERNIE GRUNDMAN." While some of the other releases from Pink Floyd Records sound dull, this one is tonally ideal and coherent; the MoFi sounds disjointed and bright."

It has the extreme channel separation of a 1970 recording but otherwise it is a warm and pleasant recording. The last track has their typical effects and very large soundstage which is fun:

 

[RayDunzl]

Now see, I was going to suggest something jazzy and live and good quality with a nice saxophone, but noooooooooooo...

 

[amirm]

"The first album I played was Eno's Another Green World (UK LP, Polydor Deluxe 2302 069), one of my favorites for sticky, late-summer nights. Eno plays all the instruments in "In Dark Trees," including synth percussion that sounds like claves. Although the performance is generated entirely electronically, I'd never before heard it sound so round and woody, nor had the attacks ever been so delicately and perfectly expressed—nor had the decays ever evaporated so convincingly after each synthesized stroke. What's more, the way the notes floated in three-dimensional space, moving slightly forward and back with changes in the intensity of the strokes, caught me by surprise—after 41 years of playing this record!
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/...-line-preamplifier-page-2#fLxbr6jt8lYLOyet.99"

It is all that he says. It is somewhat above average recording but still limited.

 

[amirm]

Now see, I was going to suggest something jazzy and live and good quality with a nice saxophone, but noooooooooooo...

View attachment 5600

This one is in there though:

And seems very well recorded. A big relief from the mediocrity of the reviewer's music....

 

[RayDunzl]

This one is in there though

That's sort of a side project (1967), before she really came into her own as a bandleader.

The Grog Kill Studio is in the basement of her house in Willow, NY.

Songs With Legs (1994) - live tracks recorded in Europe.

Sample:

Discography...

 

[fas42]

"Turning to a more dynamic track and Hawkwind’s Space and Orgone Accumulator from the LP Space Ritual Sundown V.2. I liked the SECA’s ability to get to grips with the psyceheldic mish mash of Space. This track is a melange of frequencies, a chaotic confusion that swirls in a dreamlike state. Some amps could easily blur the output and smear it but the SECA’s focus kept the piece under control, allowing the ear to differentiate each wacked out effect. By the time the heavy guitar and drums of Orgone hit the speakers the SECA and music rocked in happy, blues-based, union that, despite the cacophony, tracked the music superbly. That is, you could easily follow the bass guitar, the electric guitar, the drums, delicate cymbals hits, harmonica and more without trying too hard. A task that some amplifiers would have found too stressful and difficult to achieve, let me tell you."

View attachment 5596

Good grief. This is worse than the last one! Calling this music "lo-fi: would be an insult to the term! It is crap, crap, crap fidelity.

Which is what makes this type of recording an excellent assessment tool - do you test a car's suspension by only driving down a smooth highway, or do you also see how it handles severely broken up surfaces, with nasty potholes? If a system can pull off playback of this type of material, then it will be a remarkable listening experience.

 

[Cosmik]

Looks colored to me.
Price: $350,000/pair.

Seems as though people are hoping to use a $350,000 amp as a parametric equaliser and harmonic distortion generator that might just make a single instrument stand out in the mix of some old recording one in every hundred records.

It is a million miles from a system that opens up a high quality recording as a three dimensional space populated with dynamic, rich instruments and voices - for a minuscule fraction of the price.

 

[amirm]

Which is what makes this type of recording an excellent assessment tool - do you test a car's suspension by only driving down a smooth highway, or do you also see how it handles severely broken up surfaces, with nasty potholes? If a system can pull off playback of this type of material, then it will be a remarkable listening experience.

Potholes are the right thing to test a suspension and the highway is not as you say. By the same token, the right audio sample needs to be picked which makes it easy to find characteristics of audio gear. Music that is so full of distortion/degradation itself will make it hard to find the distortion in gear.

But you go ahead and play that music on your system and report back as to whether it becomes one of your top diagnostic tracks for hardware.