OP
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Someone did.
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Review and Measurements of ZorLoo ZuperDAC-S and SMSL IDEA Dac/AMPs
- Thread starter amirm
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #22
Yeh, we need to leave some food for tomorrow.
This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Zorloo ZuperDAC-S and SMSL Idea DAC and headphone amplifiers. They are both on kind loan from a forum member with him stealing the ZorLoo from his poor son.
I will be presenting comparison data to recently portable DAC/AMPs such as DACPort HD and Audioquest Dragonfly Red and Black.
Both of these units distinguish themselves with onboard volume control through up/down buttons:
The SMSL Idea is certainly the nicer looking of the two. It is thinner but a bit wider and longer as you can tell in the above pictures.
Let's put them on the test table and see how they perform.
Measurements
Let's start with the kid on the block, the ZorLoo ZuperDAC-S dashboard view:
View attachment 20476
Wow, that is impressively low level of distortion and noise! SINAD (signal over distortion+noise) is impressively high at 105 dB (averaged between the two channels). In case you are thinking about using it as a stand-alone DAC, its anemic output of just 0.8 volts will not do with most amplifiers.
The SMSL idea though, has no problem in that department:
View attachment 20477
It has a solid 2 volt output which is what we get out of desktop DACs. Unfortunately with the higher output power comes much higher distortion compared to ZuperDAC-S, putting its SINAD at just 90 dB. Here is how they would rank in list of DACs tested:
View attachment 20478
ZuperDAC-S lives in the second tier performance while the SMSL Idea lands at the bottom of tier 3. SO really, neither is a great fit as a desktop DAC.
Both units perform well in jitter tests:
View attachment 20479
View attachment 20480
While we like to see nothing but noise at the bottom of the graph, the spikes are below 120 dB passing the audio transparency criteria so I am not bothered by the especially given the class of products we are testing.
In dynamic range test, the higher output of SMSL Idea comes to its defense, providing better results:
View attachment 20481
The shocker was linearity test:
View attachment 20482
Are you kidding me? The SMSL Idea produces better results than most DACs I have tested regardless of price! The ZuperDAC-S also does exceptionally well, falling just a hair worse than SMSL Idea and still beating countless DACs. Next time a manufacturer wants to make excuses for not being able to get good linearity, show them this!
Intermodulation test shows these two portable DACs being well designed yet again:
View attachment 20487
Both have the lowest noise level in their class. The SMSL Idea shows fair bit of distortion though as levels go up. The ZuperDAC is essentially distortion-free but with less output voltage as our dashboard had already shown.
So far we have not stressed the output amplifiers so let's put some loads on them and see how they perform. First, 300 Ohm:
View attachment 20484
Sorry for the clutter but I promised a comparison against previously tested DACs so there they are in dashed lines. As we see once again, the ZuperDAC-S takes the crown for quietness and lack of distortion to the end. But the "end" comes early in the form of just 2.3 milliwatts of power.
The SMSL Idea pushes ahead of all except DACPort HD in power. And it does this while easily beating it in noise and distortion until its limit.
Switching to 33 ohm ups the requirement for current and both devices start hurting at the limit of their output:
View attachment 20485
The two channels deviate under load for each device making the graph more cluttered still. Stepping back though, the ZuperDAC-S continues to have lower noise level but again, with pretty low power levels of just 19 milliwatts.
SMSL Idea shows its power to the tune of 45 milliwatts until it suddenly clips hard. It manages to produce more power with less distortion and noise (at least in one channel) than either Dragonfly Red or Black. As before, the DACPort HD flys away with much more power but at elevated noise and distortion.
Output impedance story is good:
View attachment 20486
Both should be good at just about every headphone you throw at them although at 0.9 ohm, the SMSL is definitely better than ZuperDAC-S at 1.9 ohm.
Enough numbers. Let's play some music through them.
Listening Tests
Starting with Sennheiser HD-650, it was a non-starter with ZuperDAC-S. It just doesn't have enough power. Bass is like and the whole thing just doesn't get loud enough. SMSL Idea on the other hand, took a hold of these headphones and produced excellent power and bass. Mind you, it was not to the level of desktop amps but definitely useful with these high impedance headphones.
Switching to Hifiman HE-400i, performance improved some with the ZuperDAC-S but it is still not satisfying. There is no detail due to low volume and simply not enough "oomph." On the other hand, using the same headphones with SMSL Idea was revelation. Yes, at max volume it distorted but dial it down one notch in volume for bass heavy content and you are in business. On less demanding content, you would be running it at max volume but with no hint of distortion and lots of detail and dynamic range.
Conclusions
I must say I was nervous re-measuring the SMSL Idea and putting it against newer arrivals but that went away after the measurements and listening tests. The SMSL Idea is a very well engineered portable DAC and headphone amp with very low noise floor and ample power to drive what normally would require desktop amplifiers. As I type this I am listening to my Blues tracks and enjoying every bit in them. Given the low price of SMSL Idea, I don't see any reason to spend more money on the likes of Audioquest Dragonfly Black or Red. The SMSL Idea gets my strong recommendation for a portable/tiny DAC and headphone amplifier.
The ZorLoo ZuperDAC-S has a funny name with a funnier still spelling. It is however well engineered. The issue with it is that it just doesn't have enough power. Seeing how it actually costs more than SMSL Idea, I don't see a reason to purchase it. If for some reason you still want to get it, make sure to pair it with sensitive headphones/IEMs. There, it should have lower noise than competing products.
The ultimate king of power in portable DACs remains the DACPort HD. See my review here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rements-of-dacport-hd-and-dragonfly-red.5977/
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Could you test the phase response of the SMSL iDea (or any cheap DAC you have on hand) at 44.1kHz and/or 48kHz? Poor phase due to the digital filter is a common explanation for why people upsample, and I wish to see if this is an actual issue or not.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #24
As I explained elsewhere I don't have a definitive way of measuring phase response from input to output. The normal phase measurement tests the differential between the two channel. For some reason phase differential of input to output in Audio Precision is done through a different measurement method which I don't yet trust.
I have both Zorloo ZuperDAC-S and Sabaj DA2 (SMSL Idea). [EDIT] I have changed my opinion based on more time and careful listening comparing both DACs. I used them with my Android mobile phone Samsung Galaxy S7. I used IEMs (FLC hybrid 8n) and headphones (Audio Technica MSR7) with 24 bit FLAC files in UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro). No other apps work with Sabaj DA2, I think due to its proprietary USB driver. HiBy app and Onkyo do not work with DA2 (buzzing sound). Tweaking the Samsung settings under advanced developer optiond is required (select option 'avoid/bypass USB sound output'). However, the Zorloo works with all music Android apps without problems and no settings modifications are required. The ZuperDAC-S has the best sound quality with both my IEMs and headphones. Output power is higher in the SMSL/Sabaj but the Zorloo has enough power to drive my MSR7.
However, soundstage is better in the Zorloo (sense of wide soundstage) mids (voices) are more powerful and clear in the Zorloo, and highs are more extended in the Zorloo. Bass is perhaps more impacful in the DA2 but with less resolution and speed than the Zorloo. I have ordered the Dragonfly Red because it has lower power consumption then both DACs. What do you think about it's SQ compared with SMSL/Sabaj DA2? I have seen only it's comparison with DF Black. Thanks.
However, soundstage is better in the Zorloo (sense of wide soundstage) mids (voices) are more powerful and clear in the Zorloo, and highs are more extended in the Zorloo. Bass is perhaps more impacful in the DA2 but with less resolution and speed than the Zorloo. I have ordered the Dragonfly Red because it has lower power consumption then both DACs. What do you think about it's SQ compared with SMSL/Sabaj DA2? I have seen only it's comparison with DF Black. Thanks.
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Jimster480
Major Contributor
I think that Amir already proved that both the dragonfly products were average at best.
No, I think Amir only tested Dragonfly Black, much worse than DF Red. Please test DF Red against SMSL / ZuperDAC-S
He did actually, it measures a little worse than the IDEA:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rements-of-dacport-hd-and-dragonfly-red.5977/
The MSR7 is 35Ohm so you might want to compare the power delivered @33Ohm before clipping: IDEA = 45mW, Red = 26mW, ZDAC = 19mW.
OK, I am no expert in electronics and these measures are not a factor to decide on sound quality in my humble opinion. I have a dedicated HiRes player (FiiO X3 II) and it sounds worse to me than both mini-USB DACs. I will order the Dragonfly Red and test it against ZuperDAC-S and Sabaj DA2. At least it draws a lot less power from mobile phones and it is compatible with most Android app. I will post my subjective opinions later.
then you're probably in the wrong forum. Head-fi would be better suited for your needs.
OK, maybe you are right. Actually, I am also a HeadFi member. In fact, I bought the SMSL/Sabaj DA2 after reading the review against Zorloo ZuperDAC-S in this forum (it seems to have higher dynamic range and voltage output). However, the Zorloo sounds better to me (especially mid frequencies). This is why I think that technical data are not always related with sound quality, which seems to be clearly subjective and dependent on a lot of components (audio source, cables, amps, DAC chips, etc. but headphones/IEMs above all them).
Johnb
Active Member
Actually, the Zorloo measured better. The S/N was lower because its output voltage is lower, not because of noise. The issue with the Zorloo was its lower power output, which is not an issue if you have a sensitive iem. So, your subjective conclusion was not "contradicted" by the tests. I think that Amir judged the higher power of the Idea to be of more usefulness in a variety of situations Vs the trade-off of slightly higher noise.
confucius_zero
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can a zuperdac + battery powered amp beat the IDEA?
I would recommend Topping NX4 instead. It has lots of power and can drive every headphone I have without a problem — measures excellent as well here by amirm.
Veri
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Using my SMSL iDea at work lately and I still think it's a pretty sweet device. Sounds very detailed for some reason, wouldn't hesitate to recommend this to pro gamers lol I do wonder if @amirm had tested it at something else than max volume, for example standard 50% volume when it is newly connected, would have shown better distortion specs or not.
Found a picture of the insides too:
I do wonder if @amirm had tested it at something else than max volume, for example standard 50% volume when it is newly connected, would have shown better distortion specs or not.Found a picture of the insides too:
Just received the Dragonfly Red and really has improved sound quality as compared to SMSL Idea /Sabaj DA2. Highs are 'tamed' and not fatiguing and voices are highlighted, as well as soundstage. Similar to Zorloo ZuperDAC-S, but better definition and output power to better appreciate my AT MSR7. They sounded too bright with less bass emphasis with Sabaj DA2 or Zorloo ZuperDAC-S. Finally, I returned Sabaj DA2.
Veri
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Looking at the measurements I see no reason why highs would be "tamed". Did you at least volume match and compare or are you going by memory?
On-topic, here are archimago's measurements at standard volume and 96Khz
0.0016% THD which is better than the 0.0032% as rated here, but still higher than the 0.0005% of the ZuperDAC, or the Topping NX4.
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slazyel
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Sorry to "revive" the post but i would like to know if the smsl idea would be enough to drive 32 ohms headphones as a desktop dac/amp. I currently have a NX4 DSD, it's great, but i just use 32 ohms headphones like Fidelio X2HR and Takstar Pro 82. I think i'm not using NX4 DSD in its full potencial, and probably never will, because i'm using it 100% for desktop use and with low impedance headphones. I've heard the SMSL Idea would be better sounding for my takstar pro 82 too but i don't know.
In short: I can buy SMSL Idea for $65 and sell my NX4 DSD (which is new) for $165 where i live (paid $122 in a promotion, so profit ^^). So, would i lose much with just 32 ohms headphones or the audio experience would be the same for less money? What do you think @amirm ?
In short: I can buy SMSL Idea for $65 and sell my NX4 DSD (which is new) for $165 where i live (paid $122 in a promotion, so profit ^^). So, would i lose much with just 32 ohms headphones or the audio experience would be the same for less money? What do you think @amirm ?
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