Review and Measurements of Wyred4Sound DAC-2v2 SE DAC

[graz_lag]

I disagree. At least $100K cars tend to be better than $15k ones in one way or another.

Ha ... ha !!! My point was abt. 20 as overall cost and 80 as overall gross margin, so exactly as for a $100K car ...
On the other side of the moon, Topping, Khadas, SMSL, JDS Labs etc instead they look to be set at 80 as overall cost and 20 as overall gross margin, so exactly as for a $15K car ...

 

[graz_lag]

Tested DAC does not seem like DAC-2v2 SE version. At least the "DAC-2v2SE LIMITED EDITION" looks different:
- https://darko.audio/2017/12/wyred-4-sound-dac2v2se-10th-anniversary-review/
View attachment 21091

Does the nice signature on the right front top corner belong to Mr. Darko or to Mr. W4S ?

 

[JBNY]

So now having some time to look at these numbers, I wanted to comment on the W4S DAC having owned it for a few years. I own a few other DACs and have had a number of DACs in and out of my system as well as some extended listening sessions with some other DACs that are both expensive and measure poorly, such as the those from Border Patrol and Aqua. Both of which I didn’t really love, but in no way would I say they sounded bad. I also own the Khadas Tone board, and have done direct listening comparisons with it.

So the interesting thing is these high end DACs with poor measurements don’t really sound how you would think they do, bad. For instance, the W4S DAC has a more expansive sound, meaning sometimes you can really envision the room the recording was made, it also can sound lusher than some other DACs. Now that I see these measurements, why is that? The Khadas sounds very similar when the volume is level set, but after listening to it for extended periods of time, I noticed it has more energy in the mids that make it sound a little harsh. Now it measures great so it’s not obviously doing anything wrong, but why if it measures better doesn’t it sound better?

Really, it’s splitting hairs because if you were to play both DAC to someone who really doesn’t care about this audiophile stuff so much, they would say we are crazy just buy the $100 and move on.

In the end I’m not really sure how to read the measurements. I do like the way this DAC sounds, and I have had many people, maybe 60 or so, over my house to hear my system both with this DAC and other DACs in it. No one has ever commented this DAC sounds bad, even when they had never heard of this DAC (so didn’t know if it was a cheap or expensive DAC). Compared to other DACs, it definitely doesn’t sound worse (which you think it would from the measurements).

I know some will say I’m being delusional, the W4S just got beat by a $100 DAC. All I am trying to convey is I own that $100 DAC too, and I think if I had you over to listen to the two you might not pick it as the best.

 

[graz_lag]

... Cullen Circuits no longer exists. Where did he go to work after closing? Wyred 4 Sound!!

He went to W4S ? Really ? One wants to migrate to some island in the Caribbean instead, he could have easily managed his Cullen Circuit business from there ...

 

[JBNY]

Does the nice signature on the right front top corner belong to Mr. Darko or to Mr. W4S ?

Limted Edition is a different DAC from the SE.

 

[Thomas savage]

wyred4schiit

 

[gvl]

I know some will say I’m being delusional, the W4S just got beat by a $100 DAC. All I am trying to convey is I own that $100 DAC too, and I think if I had you over to listen to the two you might not pick it as the best.

W4S is okay for most if not all practical purposes, really. It is just disappointing to see it producing mid of the pack performance while having top shelf parts in it and top shelf price on it.

 

[graz_lag]

... and I have had many people, maybe 60 or so, over my house to hear my system both with this DAC and other DACs in it. No one has ever commented this DAC sounds bad ...

Pls. pls. it is not too late, you are still with enough time margin to get out prospecting your 60 friends with a nice "cannot be refused" offer for this DAC ...
Hey, just joking a bit ... I feel how you see the things now ...

 

[amirm]

no ESS hump or did I miss something?

I may still there but hidden due to higher noise level.

 

[Blumlein 88]

So now having some time to look at these numbers, I wanted to comment on the W4S DAC having owned it for a few years. I own a few other DACs and have had a number of DACs in and out of my system as well as some extended listening sessions with some other DACs that are both expensive and measure poorly, such as the those from Border Patrol and Aqua. Both of which I didn’t really love, but in no way would I say they sounded bad. I also own the Khadas Tone board, and have done direct listening comparisons with it.

So the interesting thing is these high end DACs with poor measurements don’t really sound how you would think they do, bad. For instance, the W4S DAC has a more expansive sound, meaning sometimes you can really envision the room the recording was made, it also can sound lusher than some other DACs. Now that I see these measurements, why is that? The Khadas sounds very similar when the volume is level set, but after listening to it for extended periods of time, I noticed it has more energy in the mids that make it sound a little harsh. Now it measures great so it’s not obviously doing anything wrong, but why if it measures better doesn’t it sound better?

Really, it’s splitting hairs because if you were to play both DAC to someone who really doesn’t care about this audiophile stuff so much, they would say we are crazy just buy the $100 and move on.

In the end I’m not really sure how to read the measurements. I do like the way this DAC sounds, and I have had many people, maybe 60 or so, over my house to hear my system both with this DAC and other DACs in it. No one has ever commented this DAC sounds bad, even when they had never heard of this DAC (so didn’t know if it was a cheap or expensive DAC). Compared to other DACs, it definitely doesn’t sound worse (which you think it would from the measurements).

I know some will say I’m being delusional, the W4S just got beat by a $100 DAC. All I am trying to convey is I own that $100 DAC too, and I think if I had you over to listen to the two you might not pick it as the best.

Never under-estimate the power of your mind to fool you. You'd be surprised once you are clued into to looking for it how the barest sliver of some info you think was almost unnoticed effects your perception. $3800 vs $100 in your mind alone is a big obfuscation now matter how honest you are with yourself. I know from experience. So nothing negative about you in saying this.

Here is the other elephant in the room. Looking at the measures for the Wyred4Sound, I'd bet it is or very nearly is audibly transparent. There might be some trained listeners with just the right source material who might pick it out blind (though I'm not sure of that). In normal use for listening to tunes nearly no one or no one could.

So my opinion is different than yours. You think they have by trial an error made it with a bit lower fidelity that most people will find pleasing in a way that fidelity doesn't offer. In other words you think it has an identifiable sound. I believe it has the same sound to you as the $100 Khadas, but the other factors are helping your perceive an improvement where none actually exists. You hear it as nicer either way.

 

[Hugo9000]

Tested DAC does not seem like DAC-2v2 SE version. At least the "DAC-2v2SE LIMITED EDITION" looks different:
- https://darko.audio/2017/12/wyred-4-sound-dac2v2se-10th-anniversary-review/
View attachment 21091

Oh, this one should test much better! See, it says they fixed it, right there on the display! hahahaha!

 

[JBNY]

Never under-estimate the power of your mind to fool you. You'd be surprised once you are clued into to looking for it how the barest sliver of some info you think was almost unnoticed effects your perception. $3800 vs $100 in your mind alone is a big obfuscation now matter how honest you are with yourself. I know from experience. So nothing negative about you in saying this.

Here is the other elephant in the room. Looking at the measures for the Wyred4Sound, I'd bet it is or very nearly is audibly transparent. There might be some trained listeners with just the right source material who might pick it out blind (though I'm not sure of that). In normal use for listening to tunes nearly no one or no one could.

So my opinion is different than yours. You think they have by trial an error made it with a bit lower fidelity that most people will find pleasing in a way that fidelity doesn't offer. In other words you think it has an identifiable sound. I believe it has the same sound to you as the $100 Khadas, but the other factors are helping your perceive an improvement where none actually exists. You hear it as nicer either way.

Maybe, I have some very expensive cables I have received over the years, and regularly use $30 ones so it's not like if I don't think I hear a difference I won't swap something out. I understand how powerful perceived differences can translate into choosing the one that costs more, or you think should be better. I ran the Khadas in my system for a week when I first shipped the W4S to Amir, I swapped it out because it didn't sound the way I was used to, now did it sound better or the same I and didn't want to believe it? I don't know, I've brought the Khadas around with me to a lot of other people homes to show them how good a well made inexpensive DAC can sound so I like the Khadas.

 

[graz_lag]

wyred4schiit

Hey guys Thomas is coming back !!!

 

[amirm]

Tested DAC does not seem like DAC-2v2 SE version. At least the "DAC-2v2SE LIMITED EDITION" looks different:

That was a different version they made from my read of the reviews of plain SE version.

 

[amirm]

Never under-estimate the power of your mind to fool you. You'd be surprised once you are clued into to looking for it how the barest sliver of some info you think was almost unnoticed effects your perception. $3800 vs $100 in your mind alone is a big obfuscation now matter how honest you are with yourself. I know from experience. So nothing negative about you in saying this.

Here is the other elephant in the room. Looking at the measures for the Wyred4Sound, I'd bet it is or very nearly is audibly transparent. There might be some trained listeners with just the right source material who might pick it out blind (though I'm not sure of that). In normal use for listening to tunes nearly no one or no one could.

So my opinion is different than yours. You think they have by trial an error made it with a bit lower fidelity that most people will find pleasing in a way that fidelity doesn't offer. In other words you think it has an identifiable sound. I believe it has the same sound to you as the $100 Khadas, but the other factors are helping your perceive an improvement where none actually exists. You hear it as nicer either way.

This is it really.

 

[caguilar91]

Pulled out of the air, or whatever the designer was smoking at the time.

This machine has at least some technological challenge and difficulty in it. The worst and most shameless offenders (in my opinion) are "tweaks" such as a piece of rock one places atop their equipment because it does... something... quantum... magic... what?

...And the rock costs $10 000.

Can't believe there are people that buy into this kind of things, especially coming from a painter that's rocking (pun intended haha) the audiophile world!

 

[Killingbeans]

Ha, didn't click the link until now. Saw the word 'quantum' and assumed it was pointing to "good" old Bybee Technologies

This just takes stupid to a whoooole new level...

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

BTW, my sincere appreciation for members who are increasingly loaning me expensive gear to measure. And importantly accept the data for what it is. Many people would rather not know. I continue to be impressed by how people want to know even though they have spent thousands of dollars.

If someone is happy with the sound of their system the truth the tests show should not really change this. Moving forward people might change the way they make choices though.

 

[Ralf Stocker]

Can't believe there are people that buy into this kind of things, especially coming from a painter that's rocking (pun intended haha) the audiophile world!

These sellers should pay attention to which countries they drive. There are countries where such advertising is considered fraud. There, the handcuffs at the airport quickly click.

 

[tmtomh]

And we appreciate your willingness to honestly measure and evaluate these audio components. This has brought a great deal of hate speech toward you and this site from folks on other forums that either do not understand or apparently can't handle the truth. Thanks for taking the heat! We appreciate it! I, for one, stand up for you when I can...

Well said, and I agree 100% - I too stand up for Amir and this site when they get attacked ad hominem by folks who are pretty transparently peeved that their favorite gear didn't test well here.