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Review and Measurements of Wyred4Sound DAC-2v2 SE DAC

johan

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No doubt it is possible to make discrete stage of good quality but stating that op amps have inferior sound quality compared to discrete stage because of the "simpler" signal path, higher feedback or something else is simply BS.

The truth is this: discrete stage of the same or comparable quality as the one made with op amps will cost significantly more and I see no single reason to pay for it as it will not sound better.
I disagree. Discrete opamps have advantages over the monolitic simply because real estate is not limited.

An excellent whitepaper https://sparkoslabs.com/audio-op-amps-gain-seek-bandwidth/

Internal testing with discreete stage reached -114.4THD+N unweighted and I think that unmatched in all tested DAC (unbalanced at 2.1Vrms) (but with special LPS for 5V)
 

Krunok

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I disagree. Discrete opamps have advantages over the monolitic simply because real estate is not limited.
And what kind of sound quality parameter is "real estate"?

Internal testing with discreete stage reached -114.4THD+N unweighted and I think that unmatched in all tested DAC (unbalanced at 2.1Vrms) (but with special LPS for 5V)
Once that figure is confirmed here we can discuss it. Anyway, even if that would be truth I'm not willing to pay more money for a device that has few dB better THD+N as it simply doesn't make sense.
 
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johan

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I am talking about real estate simply to say that you can add more caps so you can have a 2 pole compensation as outlined in the whitepaper .

That makes the discreet output stage (discreete opamp in fact) better than mono IC.

I am not trying to make anyone buy a discreete stage , just observing that discreete can be better than monolitic . No excuses saying that discreet stage must be worst than monolithic. Thats simply not true
 

Krunok

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I am talking about real estate simply to say that you can add more caps so you can have a 2 pole compensation as outlined in the whitepaper .

That makes the discreet output stage (discreete opamp in fact) better than mono IC.

I am not trying to make anyone buy a discreete stage , just observing that discreete can be better than monolitic . No excuses saying that discreet stage must be worst than monolithic. Thats simply not true
Can you explain what do you mean when you say "real estate"?

Sure, it may be better than monolitic desing, but at what cost???
 

g29

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Found these RMAA (16bits) measurements by HD-Fever. This was the DAC-2 DSD SE, back in 2016.

[NOTE: The HD Fever review is for the predecessor to the DAC 2V2 using a previous generation ESS DAC chip]

VintageFlanker,

Thanks for posting the HD Fever review, never heard of that site before.

According to the HD Fever review, adding an external AC Power filter makes a significant improvement to the Noise Level (25dB), Dynamic Range (25dB) and Crosstalk (27.2dB) measurements. Something good to know if true assuming many audiophiles use AC filters.

Also FWIW, one thing that might be helpful to the readers is to add a comparison table in the review summaries documenting the manufacturer's published specs against the measured specs to show what values meet or don't meet the manufacturer's claims.

accomparo.jpg


dac2dsdseacnofilter-768x440.jpg


dac2dsdseacfilter-768x444 AC FILTER.jpg



More AC Filter plots found here.
 
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amirm

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According to the HD Fever review, adding an external AC Power filter makes a significant improvement to the Noise Level (25dB), Dynamic Range (25dB) and Crosstalk (27.2dB) measurements. Something good to know if true assuming many audiophiles use AC filters.
I read the article but he doesn't say what AC filter he used. This would be the first case I see that addition of an AC filter changed the output of a DAC.
 

g29

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Hi Amirm,

Thanks for doing all of the bench tests. Very enlightening.

As for the AC power filter, I think he identifies it as the Isotek Titan GII. I don't speak French and had to rely on Google Translate.

"... The power supply of the DAC-2 DSD SE will be treated with an Isotek Titan GII filter so as not to penalize the performance measurements. ..."

"... Note that the Isotek Titan GII filter has an excellent ability to clean mains power, ie to reduce noise. ..."

"... Here is the measured floor noise measured at the output of the DAC-2 DSD SE when it is connected directly to a "disturbed" wall outlet and when a good mains filter is added, in this case an Isotek Titan GII. ..."

"... Given the sensitivity of the DAC-2 DSD SE to the mains current and the problem found on our test bench, it is more than likely that this score is penalized by the residual that the Isotek Titan GII filter can not correct by nature. ..."

"... Measurements with lower scores are related to the problem of the electric current that the Isotek Titan GII filter can not completely solve. ..."

It would be great to know if a good AC filter actually addresses the issues in the DAC2 DSD-SE and the DAC 2V2 DSD-SE versions or if the noise was an artifact of his local AC power.
 

amirm

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Thanks. Somehow I missed that. :)

I am very skeptical of those test results. I wonder if they had some ground loops that got changed with the use of that Isotek filter.
 

VintageFlanker

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This would be the first case I see that addition of an AC filter changed the output of a DAC.
I liked HD Fever a lot. But Nicolas Becuwe also said (I believe it was the Oppo HA1 review) that a different power chord changed DR, SNR etc... But without publishing measurements of this very important statement...
 

g29

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Numerous places in the article he mentions a "discovered mains power problem" on their bench but the exact cause and nature of the problem is either not articulated, is lost in translation or this reader wasn't able to find. He also mentions that their AC filter limited because it is passive and does not control voltage, amplitude nor shape of the sign wave if that is of any clue to the noise problem (distorted voltage, amplitude and/or shape).
 
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