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Review and Measurements of Wireworld Starlight 7 USB Cable

Killingbeans

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#81
If it is related to having a separate data/power shield, then wouldn't something like this be ideal?

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio...VN7WD1CQ6G6&psc=1&refRID=V9GE0HDNJVN7WD1CQ6G6

I don't really know that this is the issue as KSTR stated, and to me this seems like overkill, but for a .5m version it is the same price as the Wireworld cable haha.
"Silver plating is essential for top performance in digital cables." :facepalm::rolleyes:

I wonder how much silver the snake oil industry is consuming each year. It could be used for so many useful things. Even cutlery would be better.
 

The Dragon

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#82
"Silver plating is essential for top performance in digital cables." :facepalm::rolleyes:

I wonder how much silver the snake oil industry is consuming each year. It could be used for so many useful things. Even cutlery would be better.
Yes, my cutlery seems to sound better when silver plated. My wife will only use them on special occasions when we have guests over. She is a very thoughtful person, so I think it only makes sense then to only use my silver plated USB cable when I have important guests over. Otherwise, I will just use the one that came with my Chord DAC.
 

Shadow12347

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#83
Yes, my cutlery seems to sound better when silver plated. My wife will only use them on special occasions when we have guests over. She is a very thoughtful person, so I think it only makes sense then to only use my silver plated USB cable when I have important guests over. Otherwise, I will just use the one that came with my Chord DAC.
[Laughs in Audiophile] :facepalm:
 
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sonci

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#84
"Silver plating is essential for top performance in digital cables." :facepalm::rolleyes:

I wonder how much silver the snake oil industry is consuming each year. It could be used for so many useful things. Even cutlery would be better.
A lot is used in critical electric contacts in submarines..
 

Veri

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#85
"Silver plating is essential for top performance in digital cables." :facepalm::rolleyes:

I wonder how much silver the snake oil industry is consuming each year. It could be used for so many useful things. Even cutlery would be better.


'no beauty in the music unless bits arrive on time', man, who invents this stuff.
 
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bravomail

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#86
very good review and interesting thread. :) my take will be - use optical path, TOSLINK/SPDIF. I wonder if somebody will come up with upgraded standard to support higher bitrates/channels/distances for optical.
 

RayDunzl

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#87
I wonder if somebody will come up with upgraded standard to support higher bitrates/channels/distances for optical.
The sky's the limit...

DWDM

"Thanks to DWDM, fiber networks can carry multiple Terabits of data per second over thousands of kilometers - at cost points unimaginable less than a decade ago. State-of-the-art DWDM systems support up to 192 wavelengths on a single pair of fiber, with each wavelength transporting up to 100Gbit/s capacity - 400Gbit/s and one Terabit/s on the horizon."

Or, more practically, Toshiba has extended the original TOSLINK spec: Bitrate Originally 3.1 Mbit/s; now 125 Mbit/s
 
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#88
Just reading this wire wireworld review again. Has anyone seen or heard of the Swedish cable called SUPRA? Mapleshade sells them. Very nice reviews on other sites. Supra claims a 90ohm impedance? And the materials look way above average. I using the SYS Schiit cables which yo me look EXACTLY like a Straight Wire made cable!! I think I paid 20.00. Amir I'd be happy to send the SYS to you for testing. Wireworld and Straight Wire are/ were sister companies. When I have an extra few bucks I'm going to buy the Supra and have a listen.
 

DRB

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#91
I must say, I am a bit tempted given the mains hum which is a pain in the neck in reviews. Then again I am too cheap to spend so much money on a USB cable. :)

Sorry for replying years after your tests, but I read a recent interview with one of the high end cable mfg. engineers, Bruce Brisson of MIT Cables, and he mentioned in the interview that back in the 90's, he approached one of his friends that was a design engineer at HP Measurement and they both came up with a design for a unique FFT analyzer specifically designed to measure cables. From what I gather, it's supposed to be a better way to measure cables than a traditional FFT analyzer. I'm no expert in this field, but I think ti might be worth your time to call Bruce Brisson and ask him more about his FFT analyzer and maybe see if there might be differences that might change your testing methodology. I don't know if there are any FFT analyzers on the market that do what his does, but according to the interview, it cost MIT Cables $135K back in the early 90's, it was designed and built by HP Measurement (which has all the credibility in the world when it comes to measurement equipment), so I don't think they would design and build this as a custom one off FFT analyzer if they didn't believe it was a useful measurement tool. Maybe it will shed some light. So, I just thought it might be worth mentioning.

Also, you might want to contact these cable mfg. and ask them what test equipment they use, what measurements the conduct, etc. to help in your validation process. Fair is fair, right? I would want someone to use similar measurement equipment and testing methodology to get similar results if I was a product engineer. Maybe there's some measurements they are doing that you aren't? Is that possible?
 

DRB

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#92
Since these high end cable mfg. are many times using ultra expensive audio gear to conduct listening tests, maybe when the plug a $100 vs a $5 vs a $15K USB cable through a $50K DAC through a $750K system, they hear a noticeable difference. That's one thing I do notice when I first got into higher end audio. Whenever I replaced one piece of gear with something significantly better, it then revealed the rest of my system where I had to then upgrade another component.

For all we know, maybe these ultra expensive DACs reveal a cheap cable vs a more expensive cable because of something we're not taking into consideration or being measured. I don't use a super expense DAC, but I don't mind spending $100 on a USB cable for a little peace of mind. $100 is kind of my personal limit on how much I would pay for a USB cable. I have bad luck with cheap cables with my computer system where cheap USB cables simply don't last that long before they crap out.

I ran a Black Magic disk speed test comparing a cheap USB 2.0 cable and a $100 2.0 cable, both were the same length and damned if the more expensive cable didn't perform better. Was it a HUGE difference? In my specific cable comparison, it was noticeable and repeatable as I couldn't believe that there was THAT much difference as they were supposed to be both USB approved, yada yada yada. But it was a good 5% to 10% better read/write tests on average, some even better than that. I was surprised, it at least gave me a reason to justify the extra money spent. Years later, I gave up using USB 2.0 drives as it's just too old of a standard to even bother with. :)
 

Jimster480

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#93
Since these high end cable mfg. are many times using ultra expensive audio gear to conduct listening tests, maybe when the plug a $100 vs a $5 vs a $15K USB cable through a $50K DAC through a $750K system, they hear a noticeable difference. That's one thing I do notice when I first got into higher end audio. Whenever I replaced one piece of gear with something significantly better, it then revealed the rest of my system where I had to then upgrade another component.

For all we know, maybe these ultra expensive DACs reveal a cheap cable vs a more expensive cable because of something we're not taking into consideration or being measured. I don't use a super expense DAC, but I don't mind spending $100 on a USB cable for a little peace of mind. $100 is kind of my personal limit on how much I would pay for a USB cable. I have bad luck with cheap cables with my computer system where cheap USB cables simply don't last that long before they crap out.

I ran a Black Magic disk speed test comparing a cheap USB 2.0 cable and a $100 2.0 cable, both were the same length and damned if the more expensive cable didn't perform better. Was it a HUGE difference? In my specific cable comparison, it was noticeable and repeatable as I couldn't believe that there was THAT much difference as they were supposed to be both USB approved, yada yada yada. But it was a good 5% to 10% better read/write tests on average, some even better than that. I was surprised, it at least gave me a reason to justify the extra money spent. Years later, I gave up using USB 2.0 drives as it's just too old of a standard to even bother with. :)
I'm sorry but his tests are very accurate in terms of REAL WORLD results. He measured what comes out of the DAC, not what comes out of the cable.

No "ultra expensive" DAC has measured better than any cheaper DAC so far (since Ultra expensive DAC's are generally scams for people with large wallets and little sense) and even in testing with one of the best measuring products on this site; there was no discernable difference.

Sighted bias is a real thing, and if you just threw away $15000 on a cable then you will surely try to "confirm" that its better. Even if its not better at all.
You have to ask yourself the question of; if a "ultra expensive 50k DAC" is designed so poorly that it needs a $1000-15000 USB cable to sound like a $200 DAC.... then that is called a "money making scheme" where a poorly designed product is "protected" by these outlandish requirements.

Schiit was doing the same thing with their products; selling devices with massive flaws and then removing some of the flaws as you "upgraded".
They also spewed nonsense about "USB interfaces" saying that they were "worse" than SPDIF (when it was just their poorly implemented interface that was worse) so they sell 2 devices to "fix" this issue which cost as much as the DAC's themselves.

When you talk about comparing disk speed tests with 2 different cables.... these are more common just due to some very inadequate internal wiring used in some extra cheap cables... At the same time any cable that costs $10 or more typically has cables of adequate size inside and will not suffer from these problems.
Lastly when you compare disk speed tests; you are comparing 50+ MEGABYTES per second of data transfer (upto hundreds of megabytes per second, depending on the drive) and with audio you are generally looking at KILOBYTES per second of data transfer.

At the end of the day this is an objective forum where objective measurements are taken and we look at and discuss the real measured performance under different scenarios (and in this case when different variables such as the cable is changed). If there are no measured differences then.... there are no differences in the real world usage of the product.
 
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amirm

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#94
Sorry for replying years after your tests, but I read a recent interview with one of the high end cable mfg. engineers, Bruce Brisson of MIT Cables, and he mentioned in the interview that back in the 90's, he approached one of his friends that was a design engineer at HP Measurement and they both came up with a design for a unique FFT analyzer specifically designed to measure cables. From what I gather, it's supposed to be a better way to measure cables than a traditional FFT analyzer. I'm no expert in this field, but I think ti might be worth your time to call Bruce Brisson and ask him more about his FFT analyzer and maybe see if there might be differences that might change your testing methodology.
I did a search and references to this popped up in his 2010 interview: https://www.dagogo.com/the-bruce-brisson-interview-part-1/

1554225630020.png

When it comes to audio, companies like HP and Tek which were leaders in instruments, were overnight obsoleted by Audio Precision. AP measurements don't have the restrictions he is talking about.

As to 10 Mhz bandwidth, that is the old myth of thinking stuff above AM radio band matters to what we hear. If that were the case, we would go crazy with all the AM radios broadcasting! :)

Of course if you go to 10 Mhz, cables matter. We are well into short-wave radio there:



I suspect MIT cables make horrible RF cables anyway.

Our audible band is 500 times lower than 10 Mhz! We can't violate basics of electronics and physics to sell cables.

BTW, if there is a new type of FFT needed for audio, it would have been presented to audio engineering society years ago. We have no such submission or product.

So no, there is no there there. Such companies are fond of throwing out technical terms that they hope their readers don't understand. I do understand so I am not a good person for them to talk to.
 

andymok

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#95
I really wish there can be more knowledge in manufacturing and material science made available about cables
 

Jimster480

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#97
There's plenty. It's a mature industry. The mysteries all are in the psychology and sociology side, not technical.
Agreed.
For large scale cable companies these "sciences" are cut and dry. There is no "magic" in making cables. Its one of the simplest technologies on the planet which has already been refined so many times its beyond even what is considered "mature" at this point.
 
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#98
This is a review and detailed measurements of Wireworld Starlight 7 flat USB cable. It is on kind loan from a member. The cost is USD $100 including Prime shipping for the 1 meter/40 inch length I am testing. For this review, I compared it to my current favorite, the 6 foot/1.5m version of Amazon Basics USB cable which costs USD $5 with Prime shipping included. Yes, quite a price difference!
Amir, am I right that the Amazon Basics cable is without ferrite(s), probably this below? It would be nice to find a shorter version, for me anyway. Thanks.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NH11KIK/
 

tomchr

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#99
What could be going on is that the fancier cables use heavier gauge wire and/or shields, which improves the connection between equipment grounds. I highly doubt the differences in mains hum are attributable to anything related to the digital transmission of the cable.

Tom
 

Jinjuku

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Can I send you a Belkin Gold USB Cable for testing. It's a go to cable that I have recommended others use.
 
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