• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Review and Measurements of WesionTEK Khadas Tone Board DAC

somebodyelse

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
970
Likes
621
This was my setup before (used RPI under Volumio) but found having to handle with a mobile phone to select music is just awful. I now feed my KTB with an XDP-02U as source into its USB-C with no wifi involved anymore, works fine and I have real buttons on my DAP to control music flow skip, fwd, etc.
Most of the player distros for the Pi can use touchscreen physical buttons or infrared remote if you prefer things that way.
 

Nango

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
649
Likes
325
Location
D:\EU\GER\Rheinhessen
Most of the player distros for the Pi can use touchscreen physical buttons or infrared remote if you prefer things that way.
I actually want to move away from that rpi/Volumio thing.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
88
Likes
39
hi guys again. quick question. has anyone managed to connect toneboard, to an android infontainment car unit? without using the phone as a dap. connect khadas directly to the usb of head unit and then khadas (somehow, guessing through the rcas) to the speakers? would like to know if this is plausible. i am getting 99% a kia picanto. would love to have a good dac like khadas. and then ill buy soncoz for my system at home!!!!
 

g29

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 1, 2019
Messages
520
Likes
293
In fact, as far as I know, the designer of KTB has sent a smaller unit than you found to Amir. (a single 9038Q2M balanced output)

This unit is more similar to KTB-but the advantage is that it has a sturdy casing.
@WolfX-700 , Any update on the balanced DAC from the KTB designer ???
 

BYRTT

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
602
Likes
1,425
Location
Denmark (Jutland)
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
8
Likes
3
hi guys again. quick question. has anyone managed to connect toneboard, to an android infontainment car unit? without using the phone as a dap. connect khadas directly to the usb of head unit and then khadas (somehow, guessing through the rcas) to the speakers? would like to know if this is plausible. i am getting 99% a kia picanto. would love to have a good dac like khadas. and then ill buy soncoz for my system at home!!!!
Quite adventurous of you...
You want to play music provided by the car's radio via USB (you say 'no external DAP involved'). Assuming that the car's radio USB port works in a dual way (data in/data out) monitored from the radio's controls (NOTE: only radio stations sound available to the possible USB OUT as there will be no other USB port for, say, a USB stick or any other external USB storage) and also assuming that you'll solve the conandrum of loading the Tone Board's driver onto the car's Infotainment system (which acts as a DAP) so the car's radio 'SEES' the Tone Board as a device the same as your Windows laptop 'SEES' the Board as a USB DAC which will convert the digital data into analogue signal available through RCA Line Out (L+R), signal that you intend to feed back to the the car's infotainment system...
In fewer words: you want to send digital data OUT of the car's radio, get it converted into analogue stereo signal (by the Tone Board) and then fed it back to the radio; you'll need to be quite experimented with electronics (hacking through the car's radio) and IT (making the car's radio operating system, a basic one, but nevertheless, an operating system, 'TALK' with the Tone Board).
Quite a few things to ponder...
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
88
Likes
39
Quite adventurous of you...
You want to play music provided by the car's radio via USB (you say 'no external DAP involved'). Assuming that the car's radio USB port works in a dual way (data in/data out) monitored from the radio's controls (NOTE: only radio stations sound available to the possible USB OUT as there will be no other USB port for, say, a USB stick or any other external USB storage) and also assuming that you'll solve the conandrum of loading the Tone Board's driver onto the car's Infotainment system (which acts as a DAP) so the car's radio 'SEES' the Tone Board as a device the same as your Windows laptop 'SEES' the Board as a USB DAC which will convert the digital data into analogue signal available through RCA Line Out (L+R), signal that you intend to feed back to the the car's infotainment system...
In fewer words: you want to send digital data OUT of the car's radio, get it converted into analogue stereo signal (by the Tone Board) and then fed it back to the radio; you'll need to be quite experimented with electronics (hacking through the car's radio) and IT (making the car's radio operating system, a basic one, but nevertheless, an operating system, 'TALK' with the Tone Board).
Quite a few things to ponder...
my hopes got shattered, but thank you for explaining. I'll need a dap then... Will try to use my phone. Thank you so much
 

Nango

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
649
Likes
325
Location
D:\EU\GER\Rheinhessen
Android + NeutronMP + TB works great!!!
 

Degru

Active Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
107
Likes
65
Location
Beaverton, OR
Does anybody have full frequency response measurements of Khadas Tone Board down below 20hz and into ultrasonics? I would like to see filter behavior and whether there is droop below 20hz. I've only been able to find 20-20k measurements. Also, any ultrasonic noise measurements?
 

BYRTT

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
602
Likes
1,425
Location
Denmark (Jutland)
Myself have not measured KTB but will say for low end expect very low reach probably close to DC because we can see in the free available schematic that circuit is DC coupled, for ultrasonics reconstrution filter it use one of the sharp filters named Apodizing that Amirm measured to be >-75dB @22,050kHz. Compared to AKM LP filters that >-75dB @22,050kHz is some good rejection in if we look up the Topping D90 review we see sharp is only about -10dB @22,050kHz, also if you want to see all seven ESS filters then look up Topping D50s review or download Q2M datasheet from Khadas site. MARCH audio dac1 use KTB and LP filter was measured in the review at this link https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ew-and-measurements-of-march-audio-dac1.5755/ .
 

Degru

Active Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
107
Likes
65
Location
Beaverton, OR
Myself have not measured KTB but will say for low end expect very low reach probably close to DC because we can see in the free available schematic that circuit is DC coupled, for ultrasonics reconstrution filter it use one of the sharp filters named Apodizing that Amirm measured to be >-75dB @22,050kHz. Compared to AKM LP filters that >-75dB @22,050kHz is some good rejection in if we look up the Topping D90 review we see sharp is only about -10dB @22,050kHz, also if you want to see all seven ESS filters then look up Topping D50s review or download Q2M datasheet from Khadas site. MARCH audio dac1 use KTB and LP filter was measured in the review at this link https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ew-and-measurements-of-march-audio-dac1.5755/ .
Sounds promising. I'm not that sure about the apodizing filter because on my shanling m0 i think i prefer the standard fast linear over it, but the m0 is also a lower end chip and sound sub par even next to apple dongle in terms of timbre and accuracy. Reaching all the way to DC current on the sub end is promising though.
 

BYRTT

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
602
Likes
1,425
Location
Denmark (Jutland)
Your preference from m0 in the standard fast linear looks a bit like what the AKM filters do, its the the orange trace in below ASR measurement for D50s where blue trace is the filter KTB use.

D50s manuals naming for filters:
Filter 1: Apodizing fast roll-off
Filter 2: Minimum phase slow roll-off
Filter 3: Minimum phase fast roll-off
Filter 4: Linear phase slow roll-off
Filter 5: Linear phase fast roll-off
Filter 6: Brick wall
Filter 7: Corrected minimum phase fast roll-off

D50s.png
 

Degru

Active Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
107
Likes
65
Location
Beaverton, OR
Your preference from m0 in the standard fast linear looks a bit like what the AKM filters do, its the the orange trace in below ASR measurement for D50s where blue trace is the filter KTB use.

D50s manuals naming for filters:
Filter 1: Apodizing fast roll-off
Filter 2: Minimum phase slow roll-off
Filter 3: Minimum phase fast roll-off
Filter 4: Linear phase slow roll-off
Filter 5: Linear phase fast roll-off
Filter 6: Brick wall
Filter 7: Corrected minimum phase fast roll-off

View attachment 44991
Hm, apodizing looks like it cuts off earlier than the linear. Is there any knowledge on what exactly the "apodizing" means/does on newer ESS chips? It appears to be a fast linear filter that exhibits a slightly wavy frequency response through the treble up to 20k. But I have no clue what exactly that is supposed to do, sound wise or with regards to noise or aliasing. I know on some previous implementations it was a minimum phase filter also called "apodizing" and that is all I can find info on, but that looks to be a very different thing.
 
Last edited:

BYRTT

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
602
Likes
1,425
Location
Denmark (Jutland)
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
2
Likes
0
Hi Friends,
I just had someone tell me about the Tone Board and looking at getting the Vim3 and using the pair to stream music and netflix etc. Would the Vim3 be the right option here for sound quality. I will probably make my own power supply for it. Any quick info would be great so I can get the order in amd then read the 80 odd pages of info here. Thanks Friends!
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
47
Likes
43
Location
Canada
A quick note of thanks Amir for turning me onto the KTB. Hooked one to a Pi yesterday and into the auxilliary inputs on my KEF LS50Ws. Not sure how the KEFs are handling it, but the improvement was startling in all areas, far surpassing the straight ethernet fed KEFs.
 

somebodyelse

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
970
Likes
621
Hi Friends,
I just had someone tell me about the Tone Board and looking at getting the Vim3 and using the pair to stream music and netflix etc. Would the Vim3 be the right option here for sound quality. I will probably make my own power supply for it. Any quick info would be great so I can get the order in amd then read the 80 odd pages of info here. Thanks Friends!
Welcome to the forum. I don't recall having seen anything about the VIM here, but in theory it should be a reasonable combination.
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
2
Likes
0
Ok so so ended up buying,
Khadas VIM3 (HTPC Bundle, includes IR Remote, WiFi antenna, Case etc.)
Tone Board
TS050 5" Touch Screen Display
Fan
Heatsink
Extra screw kit.

Will now start looking at making an adequate power supply and find an aluminum case to encapsulate it all.
Screenshot_20200117-083855_Chrome.jpg
 

g29

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 1, 2019
Messages
520
Likes
293
Ok so so ended up buying,
Khadas VIM3 (HTPC Bundle, includes IR Remote, WiFi antenna, Case etc.)
Tone Board
TS050 5" Touch Screen Display
Fan
Heatsink
Extra screw kit.

Will now start looking at making an adequate power supply and find an aluminum case to encapsulate it all.
View attachment 46132
FWIW, You can find more information about the VIMs on Khadas's support forum.
 

TLEDDY

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
182
Likes
199
Location
Central Florida
Khardas Tone Board Loses connection on iMac

I searched this subject and did not find an answer here.

My beloved KTB disappears from my 2019 iMac sound output list after not being utilized and after the iMac has been off.

The issue is resolved by disconnecting and reconnecting the USB power/connection.

Help!
 
Top Bottom