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Review and Measurements of WesionTEK Khadas Tone Board DAC

BYRTT

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Same for me.. Using foobar I can not even play 24 bit FLAC files if I use Windows 10 generic USB2.0 driver
Will imagine if you install WASAPI package for Foobar and set it up to use that feature to get exclusive access to DAC unit then stuff will work, same it will work with ASIO package but then you need to use v2.24 driver package because Windows havent in box ASIO support.
 

Windofrce

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Will imagine if you install WASAPI package for Foobar and set it up to use that feature to get exclusive access to DAC unit then stuff will work, same it will work with ASIO package but then you need to use v2.24 driver package because Windows havent in box ASIO support.
I just want to use WASAPI, not ASIO. If I select 24 bit format in Foobar2000 then my files won't play. Is there any downsides if I set 32 bit in foobar and play 24 bit files? With 32bit format WASAPI is working and playback error is gone, but is it okay to use 32 bit and play 24 bit files? Is it bit perfect in this case?
1600775574415.png
 

Veri

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I just want to use WASAPI, not ASIO. If I select 24 bit format in Foobar2000 then my files won't play. Is there any downsides if I set 32 bit in foobar and play 24 bit files?
Zero downsides. Just use 32-bit. No worries there. Going down in bit size features dithering or truncation errors. Going up is a lossless approach. No bits are lost (if anything some zeros are padded).
 

BYRTT

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Told few times that technical Xmos USB and ESS DAC chipsets are of 32bit generation so please accept that is what unit understand to work flawless and 24bit is more than covered within that dynamic range.
 

Labjr

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No need to reinvent the wheel. Mini XLR connectors are mechanically better than any RCA type plug.
XLR2.jpg
 

Labjr

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I know what you’re saying, but this will still give you the option to simply use rca without any adapter.

I'd think most buyers of a balanced DAC plan to use the balanced output. I'd rather buy or even make an XLR to RCA adapter from commonly available parts than need to purchase some proprietary adapter to use the balanced outputs. I doubt their new connector will become a standard.
 

Machinistnl

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I'd think most buyers of a balanced DAC plan to use the balanced output. I'd rather buy or even make an XLR to RCA adapter from commonly available parts than need to purchase some proprietary adapter to use the balanced outputs. I doubt their new connector will become a standard.

I guess the question should be: will people that are interested in this design? (Just speaking about the rca) Would you?
 

Labjr

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Anyone who is interested in RCA only, can just get the Tone Board that's already available. There was no need to invent a new connector.
 

eesahe

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Does anyone know how I could determine accurately what is the actual output voltage from the Tone Board via RCA?

I am planning a 1NT400A amplifier build and would like to calibrate the gain of my EVAL1 buffer to stay within safe levels even if accidentally receiving a full signal from my Tone Board controlled by a Raspberry. I want to produce maximum 7.5 volts of input for 1ET400A (that will result in 130W at 8Ω which is more than plenty for my speakers)

If the Tone Board output voltage is exactly 2.0 v, I will configure the input buffer with a 2.4k resistor that will result in the maximum 7.5V input to 1ET400A (V=1+(3.3k+3.3k)/R)
 
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dsnyder0cnn

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For years, I've had a theory that each DAC has a sampling rate that works best. Some of the origin of this notion came from the 2010 post from Benchmark media in which they described how they arrived at 110 kHz as the internal upsampling frequency for their DAC1. However, arriving at the best sampling rate for a given DAC by ear can be a tedious process with modern DACs, like the Khadas Tone Board, due to the large number of options. So, I thought I'd try using REW to measure sweeps at various sampling rates to see if I could spot anything in the SPL, Impulse, or Distortion plots that might point to an obvious objective choice.

What I found with the Khadas Tone Board was rather surprising, especially given how much I enjoy what I hear subjectively. Since acquiring the Tone Board last week, I've been feeding it a 352.8/384 kHz upsampled signal from Roon, described in Roon's DSP settings as "Max PCM Rate (Power of 2)". I spent a few minutes listening without upsampling, and without giving it much thought, this setting seemed like the way to go.

My test rig is infinitely more humble than what Amir and others here are using. My ADC is the popular Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (gen2). I've configured REW to sample the incoming signal at 96 kHz with sweeps from 0 Hz to 48 kHz with 2M samples. I used REW's "Generator" function to create a WAV file with the sweep, including a timing reference. Settings for this test file look like this:
Screen Shot 2020-10-09 at 8.51.52 PM.png

I then imported this file into Roon, where it was convenient to use Roon's "Headroom Management" and "Sample Rate Conversion" features to do level matching and feed the DAC the sweep at different sampling frequencies. Some might cringe at resampling a test signal, but doing things this way made it easy to match sweep duration and timing between Roon and REW. This, and a bit of futzing with gain structure, and I was off to the races.

So, let's see what the Khadas Tone Board looks like when fed a 48 kHz PCM signal. Reasonable DACs have ruler-flat response at REW's default scale, so I chose to zoom in such that the Y-axis covers a range of only 1 dB. Frequency range I'm viewing is one octave below 20 Hz and one octave above 24 kHz (10 Hz to 33.941 kHz):

Khadas 48 kHz.png


Oh dear. What's that? I don't recall seeing these "ripples" in response in Amir's measurements. The Step response looks "textbook", and no unexpected issues with the distortion plot. So, I thought I'd measure a couple of other DAC I had on-hand for comparison. Here's the S.M.S.L Sanskrit 10th MK II and venerable iFi Audio iDAC2 compared to the Tone board:

iFi_Khadas_SMSL.png


So, there are a few tiny ripples with the SMSL, but nothing like the craziness goin on with the Tone Board. The iFi Audio iDAC2 measurement seems to confirm that my test rig is working okay (besides possibly a little rolloff at each end of the audio band). Now, these ripples are quite low in level (recall the 1 dB scale), but they can't possibly be a good thing.

With my rig validated, let's have a look at the various sampling rates that I can feed the Khadas Tone Board to see which looks best. We'll start with the available PCM sampling rates. I tried rates based on both 44.1 and 48 kHz and saw little difference between them, so I'm only showing plots based on multiples of 48 kHz here:

Khadas PCM.png


As sampling rates go up, "squiggles" settle down, which would seem to be a good thing. I don't see how I could possibly hear a difference given the small magnitudes shown here, but, again, without overthinking it, I chose "Max power of 2" upsampling on first listen. Could be luck, or perhaps my old ears are not entirely gone yet. :)

Now, let's try supported DSD sampling rates:

Khadas DSD.png


Hello! Now, that's more like it. The "horseshoe" shape is probably a fairly accurate plot of the native response of the ADC in my Focusrite Scarlette 2i2 audio interface. If I align the three plots, it looks like DSD64 has a tiny bit more high-frequency extension (a bit unusual; DSD128 and DSD256 are slightly better with my other DSD-capable DACs).

Khadas DSD Aligned.png


Differences among these three DSD plots are way too small for me to hear, but DSD64 requires less processing power from Roon, and the infinitesimally greater extension is not objectionable. From here out, I'll be pinning the Khadas Tone Board with Roon upsampling to DSD64, based on these plots. Success!

Roon Does have a few DSD upsampling parameters with which I may further experiment. Smooth vs Precise, Linear vs Minimum Phase, 5th order vs 7th order, "CLANS" or not. So, sixteen combinations in all (after settling on DSD64).

See what I mean about this being a challenge to do entirely subjectively (by ear)??! Well, I hope this was helpful. Enjoy.
 

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BYRTT

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@dsnyder0cnn,
Thanks sharing, myself havent the time to confirm your curves but think its wrong do any samplerate conversion for such tests in i remember samplerate mismatch alwash create some distortion hash, so the right method is create a test sweep in REW for all KTB supported rates and adjust so player run them native for each of them, that said on a zoomed in 1dB scale pretty shure its normal have tiny ripple especial at the lower rates caused by the default apoidic low pass filter KTB use that IIRC filter some serious minus 80-90dB @22,050kHz for the 44,1kHz rate, where many other DACs or filters looks to be only minus 10-20dB in Amir's curve @22,050kHz, but good enough if you happy use DSD thats it.
 

dsnyder0cnn

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@dsnyder0cnn,
…but think its wrong do any samplerate conversion for such tests in i remember samplerate mismatch alwash create some distortion hash, so the right method is create a test sweep in REW for all KTB supported rates and adjust so player run them native for each of them…

I started down that road, but I wanted to be able to take measurements while running the DACs at sampling rates not supported by my recording device. For example, the S.M.S.L. supports PCM rates up to 768 kHz, but my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is limited to 192 kHz and has no DSD support at all.

I think I get around some of the issues you alluded to by matching REW's measurement settings to those of the WAV file I generated and relying on the timing sync pulse to make REW start the recording at the right time. Not sure how perfect this approach is, but the results are perfectly consistent from run to run, so I feel pretty good about them. I like the end-to-end nature of this test as well, since the Roon upsampling settings that I'm measuring are what I'll ultimately be using during listening.

I just cycled through some of Roon's DSD conversion settings. Precise, Minimum Phase, 5th order CLANS (the default) seems to be best.

Listening now…bliss from this little $100 DAC. :)

Screen Shot 2020-10-09 at 11.08.05 PM.png
 

randing

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If I'm looking for a Raspberry friendly bus powered USB DAC that decodes MQA and has hardware volume control in the DAC, is this the best option under $500?
 
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