Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC

[typericey]

I just noticed that Topping released a firmware update for the D50 two weeks ago:

http://en.tpdz.net/wdzn_detail/newsId=83.html

The details of what was fixed isn't really clear. Anyone tried it already?

Mine is working great out of the box and I really wouldn't want to fix what isn't broken (or worse, brick the thing).

Edit: Sorry, I just back read and realized it is already being discussed.

 

[Veri]

I just noticed that Topping released a firmware update for the D50 two weeks ago:

http://en.tpdz.net/wdzn_detail/newsId=83.html

The details of what was fixed isn't really clear. Anyone tried it already?

Mine is working great out of the box and I really wouldn't want to fix what isn't broken (or worse, brick the thing).

Edit: Sorry, I just back read and realized it is already being discussed.

Less noise/clicks some few suffered from, especially with DSD.

 

[n2it]

I have a Topping NX4 DSD. I am using the Thesycon 4.43 driver to handle upsampling / filters output to DSD 512 for 48kHz (DSD 24.576 MHz) which was previously unsupported on Windows. I haven't heard any differences in the drivers and otherwise would have stuck with the existing driver.

 

[LittleNemo]

I ordered a Topping D50 just based on this thread and I wanted to give my listening test after several A/B tests on different configurations.

Configurations:
System A: Volumio > Rpi3b & Hifiberry Digi+Pro w/ Telema LPS > Signal Audio Toslink > Schiit Modi 2 Uber (AK4396) > Schiit Sys > DIY Mogami RCA > MAudio bx5
System B: Volumio > Volumio > Rpi3b & Hifiberry Digi+Pro w/ Telema LPS > Blue Jeans Cable COAX > Topping D50 w/ Telema LPS > Schiit Sys > DIY Canard RCA > MAudio bx5
Note: I continued the test by switching both the M2U and T50 to USB directly from my MBP playing through VOX and still had the same findings.

The songs tested were all FLAC 16bit/44.1khz. Radiohead - National Anthem, Rustie - Hover Traps, Santana - Oye Como Va (Mfsl). As well as several others of higher resolutions (24bit/48,96,192khz)

The T50 is louder so the T50 was decreased 2db and the levels were as close as I could get by ear.

Findings:
I tested and my girlfriend tested. We could clearly differentiate the two DACs.

Ultimately we both agreed that the M2U sounded better due to a more lush sound due to what we think is a better midrange and less muddled high end. The T50's highs sound thin and not as balanced with the rest of the mix. The T50 did not have as much depth and snap during claps and kicks and did not have as much body during basslines and sustained synth lines. Drums/toms don't have the same movement through the panning and depth. Vocals also aren't as lively and seem slightly more forward in the soundstage. The M2U in comparison made everything sound more evenly distributed in the mix and had more depth to all instruments (I think due to more midrange and low-end). The T50 has a much quieter white noise with no audio playing.

I could go on and on about my findings but ultimately I'm kind of disappointed. While the T50 has measured well and has some really awesome features that I do like (auto off, native DSD, preamp, etc), I just don't think it makes up for the lush full punchiness I hear from the M2U in comparison.

In the future:
I'm now thinking of getting a Modi Multibit and compare all 3. I am also going to be getting a new Rbpi3b+ and Allo Digione. Hopefully the Digione can add punch and midrange to the sound of the T50.

Last Words:
I hope this review helps some people and I hope somebody can give me feedback as to perhaps if this is abnormal of the T50 or if there is something that needs to be done to make the sound better (other than get better speakers).

I know there is a firmware update but I have no clue how to instal it since I'm on a MAC. If anyone has any input please let me know

 

[zephyros]

The T50 is louder so the T50 was decreased 2db and the levels were as close as I could get by ear.
[

You might want to level match them properly before doing any A/B test, otherwise the louder one will probably win out every time.

 

[amirm]

I tested and my girlfriend tested. We could clearly differentiate the two DACs.

You need to do the tests blind. Take turns having either you switch and your girlfriend listen and vice versa. Then run the test at least 10 times for each person, keeping a log of correct and wrong answers. Use a random sequence of whether you switch or don't switch. See if you can hide the switching from the person listening.

And as noted, levels need to be matched using a voltmeter. By ear level matching is not reliable enough.

Without these kinds of controls, like you, I routinely land on conclusions about one unit being better. Then when I follow the above, the difference vanishes.

 

[LittleNemo]

we did do a proper blind A/B test. Sorry I didn't go into as much detail on the test itself.

One of us would walk out of the room switch the Sys to a random in/out pushbutton state that corresponded with each DAC. Each tester never saw the in/out state of the Sys toggle because it was covered and the listener had eyes closed. The listener sat at a chair at the appropriate height and distance and positioning to monitors. Then said which DAC each thought it was. We repeated it each 10 times. I got 10/10 she got 7/10.

The only thing that I can kinda see being not controlled enough would be the volume matching. This is going to be challenging since the only way I can control the volume levels between the two while keeping all else the same would be by using the volume control on the T50 to match that of the M2U and that is only in .5db increments. And when it was set to -2db it was as close as it could be. -1.5db was not low enough and -2.5db was too low for the T50 to M2U matching with ear level matching. A .5db difference was clearly distinguishable.

I really was excited about the T50. I wasn't a skeptic going into it. So my listeners bias even leans towards the T50.

For the sake of more accurate testing though I'll try again tomorrow and try to match levels using a voltmeter. Would I be measuring output at the RCA ports of each DAC or across the speaker terminals? I'm reading different methods and I'm not exactly sure if I'd even have the proper equipment. I definitely know I need a sine wave test tone.

Could I measure the volume using a sound metering app or is that not accurate enough?

 

[amirm]

Would I be measuring output at the RCA ports of each DAC or across the speaker terminals? I'm reading different methods and I'm not exactly sure if I'd even have the proper equipment. I definitely know I need a sine wave test tone.

Strange that you would get different values there. Regardless, match them using the RCA outs. Use a low frequency tone that is within the bandwidth of the meter. Most of them won't go up much in frequency.

 

[Veri]

Findings:
I tested and my girlfriend tested. We could clearly differentiate the two DACs.

The Modi 2 Uber is a below average implementation of said AK chip. I find it funny you would prefer the device that shows more distortion and packet noise/ USB problems, but it's not unexpected with people oftentimes preferring artifacts in their sound.

I had compared the Topping D50 to my JDS labs EL Dac volume matched, and found I heard next to no difference. The EL Dac through optical/coaxial had the "Slow" sound color filter which causes a roll-off in higher frequencies, this might have been the only thing I could hear with certain songs, but even then my hearing was not accurate enough to say with certainty which I believed the be the rolled-off AKM chip and which the D50's Sabre chip.

It's really quite easy to fool yourself with these "critical" listening tests, one day you will write a whole paragraph about your found differences, then some days later you can no longer produce said differences and find out you were crazy all along..

 

[Blumlein 88]

Matching at RCA jacks or speaker inputs will work. I prefer speakers myself.

I like to use a 400 hz tone. I've yet to see a meter that wouldn't do pretty okay with that. Even if not fully accurate it is one vs the other you are worried about. If meter response is down a tiny bit, it is down for both sources. Even 1khz is fine with the large majority of meters even cheap ones.

Matching is a must for results to mean anything at all.

 

[derp1n]

I would suggest doing the test without the SYS in the path (otherwise, you must ensure both DACs are not active at the same time, as the SYS has enough bleed through to be potentially audible), and switching cables instead - ensuring you're using the same cables for each test.

 

[LittleNemo]

I'm on the side of wanting to listen to devices that are producing the most accurate non fatiguing sound possible. I don't care about brands or anything. Maybe my ears aren't trained to hear accuracy so I'm doing this Harmon listening test/training to try and get my ears working better. So far I'm up to skill 8 on 4 test in the past 30 minutes at around 80% so I don't think my ears are too horrible.

I want to believe the T50 is as awesome as everyone says. I truly do. So much that it's making me feel like I'm crazy. I'm just going to hold onto both DACs and continue testing and testing with these recommendations

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

I'm on the side of wanting to listen to devices that are producing the most accurate non fatiguing sound possible. I don't care about brands or anything. Maybe my ears aren't trained to hear accuracy so I'm doing this Harmon listening test/training to try and get my ears working better. So far I'm up to skill 8 on 4 test in the past 30 minutes at around 80% so I don't think my ears are too horrible.

I want to believe the T50 is as awesome as everyone says. I truly do. So much that it's making me feel like I'm crazy. I'm just going to hold onto both DACs and continue testing and testing with these recommendations

You are not crazy so don't let it get to you. What you are finding is similar to what others have concluded.

 

[Ron Texas]

T50? I thought it was a D50.

 

[dwalme]

T50? I thought it was a D50.

Yes. Topping D50.

 

[Grave]

What is a T50? Also why would anyone on this forum use Schiit because it is clearly garbage? Why do people seem to prefer crap distorting DAC's over high fidelity ones? Personally I find your post to be useless, LittleNemo.

 

[PorchSong]

What is a T50? Also why would anyone on this forum use Schiit because it is clearly garbage? Why do people seem to prefer crap distorting DAC's over high fidelity ones? Personally I find your post to be useless, LittleNemo.

Whoa Dude, dial that back a little. Why are you attacking someone who is giving their subjective observations? No need to get nasty. He owns them both, so he has no agenda. I own the D50 and I find it absolutely amazing and disagree with a lot of what he says, but then again, that is how my ears prefer music. It's like flaming tube rollers.. . . to each their own. What works for one does not necessarily work for another. That is the beauty of it.

 

[Thomas savage]

What is a T50? Also why would anyone on this forum use Schiit because it is clearly garbage? Why do people seem to prefer crap distorting DAC's over high fidelity ones? Personally I find your post to be useless, LittleNemo.

Your going to have to check your tone, personally I find your post unnecessarily rude and obnoxious so dial it down.

 

[LittleNemo]

What is a T50? Also why would anyone on this forum use Schiit because it is clearly garbage? Why do people seem to prefer crap distorting DAC's over high fidelity ones? Personally I find your post to be useless, LittleNemo.

Damn y’all chill out about T50 vs D50. It’s an abbreviation man. I didn’t realize y’all didn’t know we were a thread specifically started for the Topping D50. What’s up with the word nazis

I got the M2U when I was just getting into budget hifi audio gear. $100 on audiogon didn’t seem to outrageous to me based on posts I was reading. I think people’s opinions on gear really depends on which forums you visit

I’ve never really received such a douchebag response like this on a thread before. I guess I’m sorry you found my post useless?

 

[amirm]

There was a request for the filter responses of Topping D50. Here they are: