Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC

[yue]

Volume control works fine on D10 with Volumio when mixer type is set to hardware. My question was actually how XU208 does the volume control? Is it using the 32 bit arithmetics in a same way 32 bit DACs do when doing volume control, as it is described in the document below?

http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf

XU208 does the volume control for sure --- the exposed control in /proc/asound/ are hardware controls, and OS does nothing except passes the raw values in.
However it does not indicate hardware does that correctly. the firmware is free to do a SInt 16 * SInt 16 / VOL_MAX-> SInt 16 calculation internally rather than a (SInt 16 pad 16bit 0s) * SInt 16 / VOL_MAX -> SInt 32 for redbook
Topping may only modify the reference firmware implementation slightly, and the reference firmware implementation may do it correctly, so there're chance it works according to the doc you linked here.
But we don't have the firmware code, so I can't really make any conclusion.

The most straightforward way to see how it works is to ask @amirm to do a performance benchmark

 

[Krunok]

XU208 does the volume control for sure --- the exposed control in /proc/asound/ are hardware controls, and OS does nothing except passes the raw values in.
However it does not indicate hardware does that correctly. the firmware is free to do a SInt 16 * SInt 16 / VOL_MAX-> SInt 16 calculation internally rather than a (SInt 16 pad 16bit 0s) * SInt 16 / VOL_MAX -> SInt 32 for redbook
Topping may only modify the reference firmware implementation slightly, and the reference firmware implementation may do it correctly, so there're chance it works according to the doc you linked here.
But we don't have the firmware code, so I can't really make any conclusion.

The most straightforward way to see how it works is to ask @amirm to do a performance benchmark

Ok, I see.

I know @amirm has a lot of work with new DACs but I really hope he will re-measure D10 not only to check the volume control but IMD as well when he catches some time .
@amirm , as you already contacted Topping regarding the firmware maybe you can ask them how exactly volume control works with D10?

 

[amirm]

@amirm , as you already contacted Topping regarding the firmware maybe you can ask them how exactly volume control works with D10?

I am trying hard to not be the customer service rep for Topping. They seem to be responsive no matter who asks them so send them an email and see what they say.

 

[Krunok]

I am trying hard to not be the customer service rep for Topping. They seem to be responsive no matter who asks them so send them an email and see what they say.

I tried, but they told me that D10 has no volume control.
I don't think they will discuss the firmware details of volume control as part of standard customer support.

 

[Vosya]

P.S. How, in your opinion, can be explained by 40-50 dB the worst value of the stop band in Topping D50? And could you further take measurements for 48 kHz for comparison?

I don't know. I should double-check the results.

Are there any changes in the measurement results? Are the previous measurements correctly enough to complain to Topping on their device?

 

[sophie smith]

This is a bit off topic, but still about D50 (not trying to hijack a thread).
I currently use a tube amp to drive my full range polk LSi towers, PC as a source of music (FLACs only), and Xtreme Pro USB DAC. Works well, no complaints.
Is it "worth" upgrading Xtreme Pro to D50? "Worth" meaning whether I am likely to hear much difference. Not opposed to spend $250 for very well reviewed unit (spent a lot more on amp and speakers and do not want DAC to be a weak link), but would not want to just spend the money if there is no meaningful sound improvement in the current set up. Xtreme Pro also reviewed very well here.
I know I am asking for "subjective" opinion, but I am sure some members here have swapped multiple DACs and can share their impressions.
Thanks

 

[andreasmaaan]

This is a bit off topic, but still about D50 (not trying to hijack a thread).
I currently use a tube amp to drive my full range polk LSi towers, PC as a source of music (FLACs only), and Xtreme Pro USB DAC. Works well, no complaints.
Is it "worth" upgrading Xtreme Pro to D50? "Worth" meaning whether I am likely to hear much difference. Not opposed to spend $250 for very well reviewed unit (spent a lot more on amp and speakers and do not want DAC to be a weak link), but would not want to just spend the money if there is no meaningful sound improvement in the current set up. Xtreme Pro also reviewed very well here.
I know I am asking for "subjective" opinion, but I am sure some members here have swapped multiple DACs and can share their impressions.
Thanks

Where are the measurements of the Xtreme Pro? I can't find them anywhere..

 

[Krunok]

This is a bit off topic, but still about D50 (not trying to hijack a thread).
I currently use a tube amp to drive my full range polk LSi towers, PC as a source of music (FLACs only), and Xtreme Pro USB DAC. Works well, no complaints.
Is it "worth" upgrading Xtreme Pro to D50? "Worth" meaning whether I am likely to hear much difference. Not opposed to spend $250 for very well reviewed unit (spent a lot more on amp and speakers and do not want DAC to be a weak link), but would not want to just spend the money if there is no meaningful sound improvement in the current set up. Xtreme Pro also reviewed very well here.
I know I am asking for "subjective" opinion, but I am sure some members here have swapped multiple DACs and can share their impressions.
Thanks

Which Xtreme Pro exactly do you have? This one or some other?
https://www.xtrem-pro.com/product-page/xtrempro-x1-usb-dac-headphone-amplifier

 

[sophie smith]

Yes, that is the one (at least I think). Did not know there was more than one variant of the USB-stick type model. Got it from Newegg.

 

[Krunok]

Yes, that is the one (at least I think). Did not know there was more than one variant of the USB-stick type model. Got it from Newegg.

As you can see there are no specs on the manufacturer web site, but looking at this device gives me feeling it was made more for sticking earbuds and listen to MP3s rather than listening music on some serious system so I would say yes, if I were you I would upgrade to D50.

 

[amirm]

Where are the measurements of the Xtreme Pro? I can't find them anywhere..

It is a clone of Speaka which I reviewed here: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-speaka-usb-dac-and-headphone-amplifier.2423/

 

[sophie smith]

OK. Thanks for the input!

 

[amirm]

Are there any changes in the measurement results? Are the previous measurements correctly enough to complain to Topping on their device?

You can certainly ask them about it regardless. They have an AP and can make their own measurements. I am still trying to dig my way out of the backlog of review gear before even more shows up!

 

[Krunok]

It is a clone of Speaka which I reviewed here: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-speaka-usb-dac-and-headphone-amplifier.2423/

Huh, to be honest it's much better than I expected.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Yes, that is the one (at least I think). Did not know there was more than one variant of the USB-stick type model. Got it from Newegg.

I agree with @Krunok. Firstly, we can't be sure that your Xtrem Pro is exactly the same device as the Speaka USB that Amir measured. And secondly, that Speaka DAC measured very well for the price, but the distortion measurements indicate that it may not be transparent. The D50 on the other hand will undoubtedly be transparent.

However, if you don't need a volume control on the DAC, you might want to consider the D10? It's a lot cheaper and should be every bit as transparent as the D50 based on the measurements.

 

[Krunok]

However, if you don't need a volume control on the DAC, you might want to consider the D10? It's a lot cheaper and should be every bit as transparent as the D50 based on the measurements.

I have tried volume control in foobar and Jriver with D10 when connected to my notebook and driven with ASIO and it worked fine, at least to my old ears.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I have tried volume control in foobar and Jriver with D10 when connected to my notebook and driven with ASIO and it worked fine, at least to my old ears.

The main issue with that approach for me, even if SQ isn't audibly affected, is not having a physical knob or remote. Is that old-fashioned lol?

 

[Krunok]

The main issue with that approach for me, even if SQ isn't audibly affected, is not having a physical knob or remote. Is that old-fashioned lol?

Sorry to say this but yes, I believe it is. I wonder how old fashioned you will become when you reach 50. LOL

Regarding the SQ, I strongly believe the SQ is not affeceted as it's really not complicated to do that in 32 bit precision the same way it is done in XMOS and DAC chips but it would be interesting if @amirm also tests the efficiency of digital volume control in foobar, XMOS and few most popular DAC chips.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Sorry to say this but yes, I believe it is. I wonder how old fashioned you will become when you reach 50. LOL

Regarding the SQ, I strongly believe the SQ is not affeceted as it's really not complicated to do that in 32 bit precision the same way it is done in XMOS and DAC chips but it would be interesting if @amirm also tests the efficiency of digital volume control in foobar, XMOS and few most popular DAC chips.

By that age I will be listening exclusively to gramophones.

Totally agree with you in theory re: SQ, would be interesting to have measurements confirm.

 

[Thomas savage]

By that age I will be listening exclusively to gramophones.

Totally agree with you in theory re: SQ, would be interesting to have measurements confirm.

I plan on surfing through my old age on a wave of heroin, wasted on the young ..