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Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Some High End D/A converters like the ones made by Esoteric (which cost a leg and an arm) upsample PCM to DSD,I think it is DSD 512, I'm writting from memory. And it DOES makes sense. This has been since the late 1980's on 1 bit Delta-Sigma A/D IC converters but at a lower rate. Delta-Sigma was not only used for D/A conversion, it's also used on the A/D conversion stage and from there came the idea of DSD, "why not capture the pure 1 bit Delta-Sigma bitstream and recorded it isntead of downconvert it to PCM to be later convert again into a 1 bit Delta-Sigma bitstream on the D/A conversion end?". That was the logic of Sony when they developed DSD and as you can see this logic works both on DSD native recording and playing and on Delta-Sigma converters like the ESS 9038Q2M that the Topping D50 uses. I guess, I don't know for sure, that the kind of Delta-Sigma used on the ESS 9038 Q2M may be using 4 bit resolution samples at an oversample rate of x256 while playing 44.1/16 (Matsushita M.A.S.H. D/A converters did that over two decades ago, but as we all know it's not only about what resolution is used but how the oversampling process is done), but this is just my guessing.I have loads of Pure DSD and I enjoy it. It is a whole different thing to upsampled redbook!
Upsampling PCM redbook files (which is all PTcyap has) to DSD is an abomination in my book.
1) Redbook is just not worth converting to DSD it is too low res to bother with. Better to enjoy it for what it is. Nothing wrong with it, given a good recording and mastering and a nice DAC.
2) No conversion of PCM to DSD is lossless.
3) I don't think PCM or DSD is inherently superior to the other, but better not to mess with mixing them as this is always detrimental to the sound quality.
4) I can't believe in this nonsense of 'upsampling' anything anyway. You can't get more out of anything than what was originally in it. Oversampling in a DAC is a whole other kettle of fish. People often confuse/conflate it with upsampling. The former is valid the latter a pipe dream.
5) There is a theoretical reason to upsample DSD64 to Higher DSD rates. It possibly pushes the inherent DSD noise even higher above the so called human hearing limit. This has a potential to improve the quality of the audio in the hearing range.
I just finished setting up the D50 + Atom stack and wth!! I've been listening to "Longing by Yosi Horikawa" for close to 2 months now with the Schiit Fulla 2 and with this new stack, I'm hearing so much more in the song that I haven't heard before! Those background percussion especially that Djembe behind the booming bass! And that cricket like sound is so much more pronounced!! @MWC @amirm What rabbit hole have a started going down in. And the power on this amp too is incredible. I listen to around 2-3 o'clock on the fulla 2 with the HD58x but with the Atom I'm only at 12 o'clock low gain!!
The DAC rabbit hole ... There's the headphone and speaker ones to drop in on too....
Ah, true.
Nonsense or not, just try and if you like it that's OK, if you not that's OK too.
There is nothing to like as with upsampling no new data is added to the signal except for possible upsampling errors and some noise. If it would be done perfectly you would end up with the same signal.
@PTcyap ,
With my D50 I have used several different USB slots on my laptop and others (USB3) on my Music Server back home. All work fine. IIRC USB was not used with DACs before the 2nd iteration of the original USB was available, so it is possible that, on a very old PC, one might still have an original USB v1 that might not work. Possibly not able to be asynchronous.
Are all USB slots colour coded? I know USB3 is blue, but my laptop has grey ones and a yellow one too and I don't know what those colours of the USB slots signify.
With my D50 I have used several different USB slots on my laptop and others (USB3) on my Music Server back home. All work fine. IIRC USB was not used with DACs before the 2nd iteration of the original USB was available, so it is possible that, on a very old PC, one might still have an original USB v1 that might not work. Possibly not able to be asynchronous.
Are all USB slots colour coded? I know USB3 is blue, but my laptop has grey ones and a yellow one too and I don't know what those colours of the USB slots signify.
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@Kiko1974 ,Whether it is valid or not for PCM to be upsampled to high rate DSD within a DAC, that is a whole order of magnitude different to what was suggested e.g. upsample redbook files on one's PC for the purpose of hearing DSD for the first time to evaluate how DSD sounds! That is plain nonsense!
I'm good with speakers for now.. I feel content with the iLoud Micro monitors.. My wallet forces me to say I'm contented..The DAC rabbit hole ... There's the headphone and speaker ones to drop in on too....
Some Gigabyte models have the USB DAC-UP port that is supposed to be less noisy. If you don't have that, you can just test a few ports to see if you hear a difference. My older Gigabyte mobo seems to pass audible noise through a couple usb ports closest to the PSU, so I just use other ports.
My journey with dacs started 6 years ago, when I bought Fiio entry level dac. Within few days I upgraded to Fostex HP3 dac, which was far better than Fiio. I had fostex dac for more than 2 years and during that time, I started auditioning other dacs. Through experience, I realized, though fostex was a good dac with clear sound but it was more on analytical side, sounding bit thin and not having enough bass and highs.
I moved on to Chord Mojo, after reading raving reviews from various forums and experts. Finally, bought Chord Mojo, I was amazed with the sound and it still amazes me. I use it along with Luxman 505ux integrated amp. The only downside is, it gets hot very fast. If you keep it on charging while playing than it trips in summer due to the heat it generates.
I decided to have one more dac, alongside Chord to take care of various sources (Apple TV, Laptop, TV etc..). I read good reviews about Topping D50 on this forum and finally bought it in last weekend. It was delivered in a day and I immediately hooked up with Toslink input from apple TV and output feeding into Luxman integrated amp. Immediately impressed with the sound very detailed, nice separation, deep and tight bass and lush highs.
I did a/b to compare against Chord Mojo... I didn’t notice too much difference, but few things stands out in D50
1. Better extended highs than chord
2. Better instruments separation
3. A bit more bass
But one thing where Chord stands out is, better mid level bass, which makes sound more musical.
My question is , does Topping D50 has thinner mid level bass compared to Chord Mojo or I need to give some more burn in time...
I moved on to Chord Mojo, after reading raving reviews from various forums and experts. Finally, bought Chord Mojo, I was amazed with the sound and it still amazes me. I use it along with Luxman 505ux integrated amp. The only downside is, it gets hot very fast. If you keep it on charging while playing than it trips in summer due to the heat it generates.
I decided to have one more dac, alongside Chord to take care of various sources (Apple TV, Laptop, TV etc..). I read good reviews about Topping D50 on this forum and finally bought it in last weekend. It was delivered in a day and I immediately hooked up with Toslink input from apple TV and output feeding into Luxman integrated amp. Immediately impressed with the sound very detailed, nice separation, deep and tight bass and lush highs.
I did a/b to compare against Chord Mojo... I didn’t notice too much difference, but few things stands out in D50
1. Better extended highs than chord
2. Better instruments separation
3. A bit more bass
But one thing where Chord stands out is, better mid level bass, which makes sound more musical.
My question is , does Topping D50 has thinner mid level bass compared to Chord Mojo or I need to give some more burn in time...
P.s.. this is my first post in any audiophile forum.. pls forgive me for any inconsistencies
Let it break in for at least 50 hours then you will hear what the D50 has to give. When I got mine around 6 months ago I also thought it sounded a bit thin at the begining but after several hours of break in (I left it ON for several hours in a row playing Hi Res music from a Sony UBP X-800 UHD BD player, files were on a SSD) it sounded as it does now,accurate.
Keep atention to the power supply as it will have an impact on the sound of your D50. I feed my D50 with a high capacity powerbank, a 22400 mAh EC Technology I got from Amazon, it's power supply is very stable.
Between my D50 and the amp is conected to I have a Yaqin SD-CD3 Tube Buffer that makes the D50 sound fatter, with wider soundstage and silky mids and high, but not with the supplied tubes, I had to spend 75 € on a pair of NOS JAN (tubes made for the US military and navy) Philips 6SN7GTA.
Thanks for the advice. I am powering it with iPhone charger, will change in few days,as suggested and see the result
@I_L_Music, I doubt you will hear any difference using a powerbank or whatever than with your current iPhone charger. You could always put something in the way of a clear and clean signal, from the DAC to the amp, which would affect the sound or leave well alone and keep it clear and clean.
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