Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

[L5730]

The green is the recording (with headroom from ADC).
Blue is the file played out to the D10.
I used Reaper DAW and WASAPI exclusive. All faders were set at 0 nothing >0 dB

<0dB || -1.1dB >

If I lower the ADC it is still the same, so I know I am not clipping that.
Turning down the sine wave feeding the DAC results in it clearing up - no clipping.

I am going to try investigate this further.

EDIT:
I am using the X370 motherboard onboard Line In for an ADC.
I just did the same test with my motherboard sound, running Line Out to Line In, and it clips when the sine wave feeding the onboard DAC is anything more than -2.0 dBFS.
I am going to hazard to conclude that it is NOT the DAC it is in fact my ADC that I am saturating, and the record level control for it maybe post digitisation or something.

OK, cancel all of the above!

My apologies to all. It turns out I was saturating the ADC.
I grabbed my old cassette deck and hooked that up. D10 DAC > rec/input. playback/output > Motherboard ADC.
I then adjusted the gain in the analogue domain and watching for those extra frequency spikes.

Was a perfect recording if I keep levels a few dB below maximum into the ADC. I was feeding the DAC a full 0 dBFS sine wave and the recorded output was fine.
This D10 DAC does not distort with Full Scale signals.

Again, I apologise for any confusion or misleading.
Note to self, remember to check methodology before posting.

 

[Samurai_Warrior]

Sorry if this sounds like a noob question. However, does the d10 leave in the sound from electricity which is at 60hz? I remember reading something about Schiit dacs not filtering out this noise.

 

[L5730]

Sorry if this sounds like a noob question. However, does the d10 leave in the sound from electricity which is at 60hz? I remember reading something about Schiit dacs not filtering out this noise.

It's USB bus powered so it will only have any power supply hums if they are being passed by the computer to it's USB ports. I don't think so although someone suggested, on this thread, that using an external power supply cleared up some other noises.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-of-topping-d10-dac.2470/page-25#post-90089

 

[L5730]

What ever I do, the first D10 I have doesn't display any decimal dots on the display. I can't remember if it did when I first got it or if it never did.


The second D10 I have, only a few S/N digits different, doesn't have this problem, the decimal point is there for DSD and PCM sources where applicable.
I did contact topping with a generic image and the dot circled, and it's clear we have a language barrier, but they indicate that the dot should be there. They don't seem to suggest that some do/some don't.

No strange smells, no strange heat nothing seems different about the two units except the decimal dots not lighting up on the first unit.
If it was a UK item and plentiful stock I'd just return and get a replacement, but the market place seller no longer has any fulfilled by Ama-big_no_tax_paying-zon uk, and the wait time from Shenzhen is long. I've still a little while to return under 30 days, but I don't l know if it's that big an issue for the faff.

The LCD does have the marker for the dot, it just doesn't illuminate.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

I seems obvious the segment is just not working. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Duckeenie]

I just replaced my Schiit Modi 2 with a Topping D10. Fortunately for me Schiit's internet review spam meant I still got nearly the same price as I paid for it a couple of years ago.

If it hadn't of been for Amir's review I would never have opted for this DAC and likely have wasted two or three times as much money on something inferior. So cheers Mr!

 

[Snarfie]

D10 in operation Show your gear.

What are other forum members using for gear which uses the D10. Mid en high's IMF electronics Compact II monitors amplified by NAD C350 - Subwoofers (is acutaly a full range speaker bi-wierd) B&W DM602 amplified by Vintage Technics SE-9021 pre-amp & SU-9011 power-amp. Listen to lots off Jazz funk soul pop & deep house.

 

[Duckeenie]

D10 in operation Show your gear.

What are other forum members using for gear which uses the D10. Mid en high's IMF electronics Compact II monitors amplified by NAD C350 - Subwoofers (is acutaly a full range speaker bi-wierd) B&W DM602 amplified by Vintage Technics SE-9021 pre-amp & SU-9011 power-amp. Listen to lots off Jazz funk soul pop & deep house.

"Bi-weird" Wonderful typo that is probably only suitable for mature audiences of an open-minded nature. Talking of such things that pre-power setup looks sexy as F... . I much prefer the chrome/silver look to the black stuff we have today.

Just got home so I'll post a pic of mine in a bit.

 

[AresHarvest]

My apologies to all. It turns out I was saturating the ADC.

Makes sense. The datasheets I've seen for Realtek HD Audio codecs list a max input voltage of 1.6 V rms. The D10 has max output voltage of 2 V rms. That difference amounts to 1.93 dB, which is roughly the clipping point you saw.

I don't know what specific version your motherboard has, but it's listed as Realtek HD Audio, so we're in the ballpark.

 

[L5730]

Makes sense. The datasheets I've seen for Realtek HD Audio codecs list a max input voltage of 1.6 V rms. The D10 has max output voltage of 2 V rms. That difference amounts to 1.93 dB, which is roughly the clipping point you saw.

I don't know what specific version your motherboard has, but it's listed as Realtek HD Audio, so we're in the ballpark.

I'll say that Realtek have made audible improvements over time with their onboard 'CODECs'. The line out sounds pretty reasonable and even what is on a laptop isn't anywhere near as horrendous as they used to be. Saying that, it does seem that the inputs are still their weak points and they still have low headroom and plenty of self noise.

ASRock X370 Taichi has a ALC1220, which isn't really covered anywhere.

Thankfully I managed to prove that I was actually clipping the ADC before I went on a multi-post rant and made myself look too foolish.
I did look to see what max input voltage the cassette deck could handle and it only said "100mV/50 k-ohms" for input sensitivity and impedance, which meant nothing to me. The manual just doesn't mention max signal headroom at all. Anyway I could adjust the record level, make the VU meter come down to a sensible range and then see what the FFT looked like and what the test tone sounded like. It cleaned up and sounded like a regular sine tone, so I knew I was clipping the ADC when feeding it directly from the DAC.


Another listen today, and no oddities to report. Whatever was causing the odd glitches or pops when playing before was something to do with that old Acer Win7 netbook. It's been utterly perfect on a much newer HP Win10 notebook playing Foobar2000 with the Topping ASIO driver.

I know this is beyond the scope of this forum, but I wondered if anyone found a way check Foobar2000's output device for version 1.3.17? It is possible in v1.4 using the JScript panel and the fb.GetOutputDevices and then filter that down, but I need compatibility with the v1.3 playlists and some other older components.
It's not a hugely big deal as I can make sure the DAC is connected in Windows before launching Fb2k by doing a command line check and moving on based on the result, like echoing vbscript msgbox to temp then launching that and having nice message box with retry button come up.

A batch/command line way to detect if a Topping sound device is present. If you have more than one Topping device, things may get more complicated and require 3rd party tools, or first analysing the Product ID code.

wmic sounddev get name,manufacturer,ProductName,Caption | FINDSTR /ic:"Topping"
SET _RTN=%ERRORLEVEL%
IF %_RTN% EQU 0 ECHO. DAC Found
IF %_RTN% EQU 1 ECHO. DAC Not Found

 

[AresHarvest]

I know this is beyond the scope of this forum, but I wondered if anyone found a way check Foobar2000's output device for version 1.3.17? It is possible in v1.4 using the JScript panel and the fb.GetOutputDevices and then filter that down, but I need compatibility with the v1.3 playlists and some other older components.
It's not a hugely big deal as I can make sure the DAC is connected in Windows before launching Fb2k by doing a command line check and moving on based on the result, like echoing vbscript msgbox to temp then launching that and having nice message box with retry button come up.

I'm using foobar2000 v1.3.9 here. Unless I'm misunderstanding your goal, you want to restrict the output device to the D10 and prevent foobar playing back through any other device by accident. If your version has the same preference pane as mine, you should be available to choose the default device in Preferences > Playback > Output > Device.

Just checked the behavior when set to D10:

• Unplug the D10 while foobar is running: foobar continues to run, no sound from other devices.
• Unplug the D10 while foobar is running, then plug the D10 back in: everything works as normal.
• Launch foobar without D10 plugged in: as soon as I press play, foobar prompts me to select a valid output device
• Launch foobar without D10 plugged in, then plug in D10: everything works as normal

 

[L5730]

I'm using foobar2000 v1.3.9 here. Unless I'm misunderstanding your goal, you want to restrict the output device to the D10 and prevent foobar playing back through any other device by accident. If your version has the same preference pane as mine, you should be available to choose the default device in Preferences > Playback > Output > Device.

Just checked the behavior when set to D10:

• Unplug the D10 while foobar is running: foobar continues to run, no sound from other devices.
• Unplug the D10 while foobar is running, then plug the D10 back in: everything works as normal.
• Launch foobar without D10 plugged in: as soon as I press play, foobar prompts me to select a valid output device
• Launch foobar without D10 plugged in, then plug in D10: everything works as normal

Spot on! That makes sense, yes. I've typically never ran Fb2k with a removable audio device before, so have limited experience with such.
Yes, that's right it prompts saying the device isn't present.

My issue was that I may goof around with fb2k for some reason without the DAC connected. Switch to internal line out to make sure audio plays. Then close fb2k. The next time it launches it will be pointing at the line out, not the DAC. It also won't tell me that at a glance, unless I shift-click Playback in the menu or look at the prefs.

It's primarily not my notebook computer and I have set it up for someone else in the house to use. They'll get confused if no sound comes out through the DAC. I suppose I should just be more careful if I need to edit anything in fb2k

In v1.4 and the JScript panel, I could make a little indicator that would be orange if the DAC wasn't the default device, and when clicked, switched the output to the DAC and then changed colour to green or something. However, I cannot migrate playlists between major versions. I migrate playlists so that I can keep the two portable installs (Windows and Linux/Wine) in sync (using the autobackup zip from foo_jesus and unpacking/copying the playlists).

Oops, I am steering too much into a discussion of Foobar2000's operation and less about the DAC the topic is about.

 

[Snarfie]

Maybe bit off topic but has somebody uses the pluginn Mathaudio EQ in Foobar2000 en what are the results (if possible) in combination with the D10 and a propper measuring mic. Is there a difference for instance between Mathaudio EQ an let say a MiniDSP HD. I did for now a measurment with my whobly Laptop Mic. (not optimal (understatement)). So this week ik get a proper measuring mic. Keep you posted.

 

[Snarfie]

Result of 3 measurments (left middel right at ear hight) with Mathaudio EQ (as a Foobar2000 addon/DSP). Done with the onboard mic from a Thinkpad X230, sound output device D10, Mediaplayer Foobar2000. It seems i was addicted to high frequencies. Even with this onboard Mic results are already remarkeble. Sound is more balanced all the s'ss are gone in voices, high hats bass more clear but depth there is not really a gain. The freq range & linearity of the Laptop mic is probably horrible so waiting for the proper measuring mic.

 

[amirm]

Result of 3 measurments (left middel right ear hight) with Mathaudio EQ (as a Foobar2000 addon/DSP).

Are you measure speaker response there?

 

[Snarfie]

Are you measure speaker response there?

Yes pinknois sweep from both speakers. Wondering if the results (with a proper mic) are comparebly with a minidsp.

 

[Hemicrusher]

Still digging my D10.....use it about 6 hours a day/5 days a week since I got it. Zero issues.

 

[Krunok]

The freq range & linearity of the Laptop mic is probably horrible so waiting for the proper measuring mic.

Yep, usually it is horrible. To my surprise, while waiting for proper measuring mic to arrive, I discovered that mic in Samsung earbuds performs much better than my laptop mic, so you can try it while waiting.

 

[Snarfie]

Yep, usually it is horrible. To my surprise, while waiting for proper measuring mic to arrive, I discovered that mic in Samsung earbuds performs much better than my laptop mic, so you can try it while waiting.

Even so the laptop mic is not great the measurments done with it gives me already a noticeble positive result doing a A-B comparison. By the way have a look to my measurment (picture) above, the crappy laptop mic starts measuring around 25 hz not bad. I already orded a ECM8000 mic to be sure .

 

[Krunok]

Even so the laptop mic is not great the measurments done with it gives me already a noticeble positive result doing a A-B comparison. By the way have a look to my measurment (picture) above, the crappy laptop mic starts measuring around 25 hz not bad. I already orded a ECM8000 mic to be sure .

Usually high frequencies are problematic for crappy laptop mics.
ECM8000 should do a fine job.