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Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

DWPress

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Tried a couple more things to troubleshoot and as I was swapping cables noted that even with a different audio device (onboard or USB) selected as output I get noise merely by plugging in the D10.

I'd happily sell it to you Amirm if you think your further testing of this unit would give any further results. Strange that the D10 doesn't have full isolation really - I thought that was a no brainer conclusion for computer USB audio years ago... If you don't think there would be any benefit from further testing I'll just try to return it to the seller.
 

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I can return it but I'd have to pay shipping to Hong Kong and a 20% restocking fee so really not worth it.

I'm pretty sure that this is an issue with my particular computer and not a fault of the D10 as I've also now tried it with a Gigabyte board desktop computer running Win7. It performs just fine and no noise with all 5 of my machines except the one I need it to work with. :confused: Not terribly interested in getting a new computer at the moment so -

If anyone is interested in purchasing this D10, I'd let it go for $65 + shipping to the continental US (I'm in MI - ebay id deepwoodpress with 100% rating since 2002). If the buyer were to have problems with it as I have had (which I highly doubt would be the case) I'd refund the price with it's return.

I really appreciate your offer Amirm but it's not your fault by any means that I had this issue and you've got DACs coming out of your ears already I'm sure. Any recommendations for something in this price range to replace my piece of Schitt? Preferably one with full galvanic isolation it seems.
 

gvl

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I can return it but I'd have to pay shipping to Hong Kong and a 20% restocking fee so really not worth it.

I'm pretty sure that this is an issue with my particular computer and not a fault of the D10 as I've also now tried it with a Gigabyte board desktop computer running Win7. It performs just fine and no noise with all 5 of my machines except the one I need it to work with. :confused: Not terribly interested in getting a new computer at the moment so -

If anyone is interested in purchasing this D10, I'd let it go for $65 + shipping to the continental US (I'm in MI - ebay id deepwoodpress with 100% rating since 2002). If the buyer were to have problems with it as I have had (which I highly doubt would be the case) I'd refund the price with it's return.

I really appreciate your offer Amirm but it's not your fault by any means that I had this issue and you've got DACs coming out of your ears already I'm sure. Any recommendations for something in this price range to replace my piece of Schitt? Preferably one with full galvanic isolation it seems.

Does your audio gear downstream of the DAC use a 3-prong (grounded) power plug?
 

DWPress

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Signal goes to a PSAudio 6.2 straightwire preamp with grounded plug to a miniDSP 2x8 for active 3 way XO (+ subs) then off to grounded amps. Noise floor on my setup is silent with any of my other USB based DACs. I've been using computer based digital audio for 20+ years so this isn't the first time I've noted USB induced noise in systems, just thought that it would have been engineered out of existence by now.
 

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Signal goes to a PSAudio 6.2 straightwire preamp with grounded plug to a miniDSP 2x8 for active 3 way XO (+ subs) then off to grounded amps. Noise floor on my setup is silent with any of my other USB based DACs. I've been using computer based digital audio for 20+ years so this isn't the first time I've noted USB induced noise in systems, just thought that it would have been engineered out of existence by now.

Just for the sake of experiment try lifting the ground pin on the iMac from the outlet. If you're in the US you can use one of these, don't connect the ground with a screw to the outlet. Running without ground is a bad idea and plain dangerous, but would be interesting to see if it helps in a short test.
 
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DWPress

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No affect unfortunately but good idea.

I've taken great pains to isolate my audio gear from computer gear - each run off a separate circuit from the main breaker box on different legs, all wall wart switching supplies run off a separate high quality power strip and all audio amps and such run through a Furman M-8x line conditioner. The miniDSP 2x8 has it's own linear psu even.
 

DWPress

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Thought of that too but moving the computer plug to the Furman didn't resolve the issue either. And before anyone asks; yes, I disconnected all other USB devices from the iMac as well for all this troubleshooting.

Though on two separate circuits, the ONLY thing connecting the computer to the audio gear is the USB cable and, as mentioned, I've tried several known good USB cables with and without ferrite chokes. Outlets are < 20' from circuit panel, earth ground is excellent as I live on a river, I built this building myself and did my own electrical work 26 years ago so I know that's all good. I get a lot of power outages and storms have fried my gear in the past so thus the extra protections and breakers for a quick shut down in crap weather.

Like I said, I've tested this thing on 5 different computers and 2 operating systems and each time (except for the laptop on battery power) using the same outlets to plug into except for the above tests. I'm pretty confident that it's an issue with the aging iMac and not the D10 but curious that other DACs are not affected by noise.
 

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I had a very similar issue, one computer would create background buzz but not others. The challenge here is to find a solution that doesn't cost more than the DAC itself.

Things that helped:
- USB over Ethernet extenders
- DACs with built-in galvanic isolation
- amps that used a 2 pronged plug (no equipment ground)

Things that didn't:
- USB hubs, powered or not
- Schitt Wyrd (it basically a USB hub)
- iFi iDefender
- iFi USB iPurifier 1.0

There are some USB cables out there that allow to use external 5V PSU instead of the power from computer, worth a shot if you can find one for cheap, or you can build one yourself.
 

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I considered building my own split USB cable and may just yet as it would be pretty simple but I've already lost 2 frustrating days on this thing...
 

gvl

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I considered building my own split USB cable and may just yet as it would be pretty simple but I've already lost 2 frustrating days on this thing...

I imagine it might have to be slightly more complex than just cutting the power conductors and connecting them to an external PSU.
 

DWPress

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Success! I figured I had so much time into it why not bust out the solder iron. A pretty easy operation if you're even moderately skilled with an iron and have a couple extra USB cables around. The trick is to leave the ground wire on the USB cable intact for the +/- data wires to function and splice the new ground into it and then just cut and solder the 5V to the new cable going to a 5V power source - in my case I'm just using an Apple phone charger. Pic attached as it's worth a 1000 words.

Sounds good, no noise or artifacts that are audible at any rate. I can't say that I'm totally pleased with my new toy as it was a hell-of-a frustrating adventure for something that should have been an easy minor upgrade. I'll rest comfortably knowing there's less inaudible noise and jitter in the system I guess. Baby steps to perfection I suppose....

Sorry for sucking up so much forum bandwidth the last couple days. All I can say in conclusion is if anyone else is looking to get a Topping product (Amirm suggested there were similar reported issues with the D50) then maybe purchase in your own country if possible for more money to avoid the potential returns and fees to China just in case you happen to be one of the few that might be affected by USB power issues.

Thanks to all who chimed in trying to help!
IMG_5821.JPG
 

gvl

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Cool, I do wonder if all you had to do was to cut the outer shield. Just an FYI, this cable probably doesn't meet FCC regulations now ;)
 

DWPress

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LOL :p

I doubt merely cutting the shielding would have done it. The culprit is definitely dirty USB power from the iMac which I'll most likely have to replace soon enough as the PSU or something else in line on the circuit board is probably degrading to have even caused the issue. BTW, that phone charger is plugged in with the other nasty switching wall warts on the other circuit so definitely not a ground loop issue in that regard.
 
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amirm

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Success! I figured I had so much time into it why not bust out the solder iron. A pretty easy operation if you're even moderately skilled with an iron and have a couple extra USB cables around. The trick is to leave the ground wire on the USB cable intact for the +/- data wires to function and splice the new ground into it and then just cut and solder the 5V to the new cable going to a 5V power source - in my case I'm just using an Apple phone charger. Pic attached as it's worth a 1000 words.
Most excellent. Your efforts documented here will help others. If you don't mind, drop a note to Topping and let them know. Maybe they figure something out in the future designs.
 

DWPress

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Will do Amirm. Maybe you could too as you seem to have some clout with them. Like I said, galvanic isolation was a known effective part of USB audio a decade ago so very strange that it's not universally implemented even with these sub $500 units.
 

gvl

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LOL :p

I doubt merely cutting the shielding would have done it. The culprit is definitely dirty USB power from the iMac which I'll most likely have to replace soon enough as the PSU is probably degrading to have even caused the issue. BTW, that phone charger is plugged in with the other nasty switching wall warts on the other circuit so definitely not a ground loop issue in that regard.

I hear you, but it would be interesting to try with iMac power and cut shielding. Ground loop with the phone charger is unlikely to impossible as the charger isn't grounded (no ground pin).
 
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amirm

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