Review and Measurements of Topping D10 as USB to S/PDIF Converter

[blueninjasix]

If that is the case then only 2 options are possible: either one of the interfaces is seriously damaged or you are doing a sighted and not a blind test.

Third option would be that you are the only person in the world that can hear such difference but I somehow doubt that.

Blind test done. I can tell the difference.

 

[Krunok]

Blind test done. I can tell the difference.

Congratulations. And try to avoid kryptonite, it can seriously hurt you.

Or even better, have those interfaces and their cables checked as one of them is failing.

 

[daftcombo]

Frankly, I am not buying that. IMO all digital inputs (USB, coax, optical) sound exactly the same and are totally transparent to our ears. That has also been proven on numerous occasions by measurements published here.

The only thing you can say for sure is that with optical input you will avoid ground loops and it is very easy to hear if you have problem with ground loop.

There can be a difference if the music player or Windows are not configured properly (no use of ASIO nor WASAPI exclusive, buffer set too low...). In those cases USB can sound worse than optical/coax.
If all is configured properly, all should sound the same.

Recently, Amir reviewed a device that measured worse on optical than through USB though. Can't remember which.

[Edit: it was HDMI VS Toslink. See below.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...0-as-usb-to-s-pdif-converter.2699/post-240310]

 

[Krunok]

There can be a difference if the music player or Windows are not configured properly (no use of ASIO nor WASAPI exclusive, buffer set too low...). In those cases USB can sound worse than optical/coax.
If all is configured properly, all should sound the same.

This guy said he is using ASIO/WASAPI exclusive.

Recently, Amir reviewed a device that measured worse on optical than through USB though. Can't remember which.

Measured difference was far below human hearing.

 

[daftcombo]

Measured difference was far below human hearing.

With that device, perhaps. With all, we don't know. In any case, it would be nice to understand how that is possible.

This guy said he is using ASIO/WASAPI exclusive.

The buffer issue possibility remains. I believe a lot of people who dismiss USB didn't configure their music player properly.

 

[Krunok]

With that device, perhaps. With all, we don't know. In any case, it would be nice to understand how that is possible.

The buffer issue possibility remains. I believe a lot of people who dismiss USB didn't configure their music player properly.

Buffer related issues are easilly recognised. Most pops/clicks that happen with players on Windows platform are not related to buffering but to WiFi driver problems etc.

 

[daftcombo]

You can facepalm. Here it is:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-yamaha-rx-a1080-avr.9090/

I had request to measure with S/PDIF so I choose to use Toslink to avoid any chance of ground loops and got this:

What??? Noise floor goes way down but harmonic distortion -- especially third harmonic -- shoots up resulting in much lower SINAD of 78 dB.

Let me spell this out: there is only one DAC which converts digital to analog. Whether you feed it with audio samples extracted from HDMI or Toslink, the final output should be very similar, sans noise and jitter which could be source specific. What we are seeing is radically different analog distortion profile. I don't understand how this is possible.

To rule out any changes, I immediately retested HDMI and got the same better performance as I have shown above.

Maybe there is some processing going on here but why would it be specific to Toslink and how would it add non-linearities this way and nothing else? Notice how the levels are almost identical to HDMI input.

I plan to investigate this more. If you have some ideas, let me know.

 

[daftcombo]

Don't say that a spike at -78dB 3rd harmonic is not audible.
It's probably the kind of distortion that helped Amir pass the blind test you requested with a unit with the same 3rd harmonic distortion value:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-dac.9100/

 

[Krunok]

You can facepalm. Here it is:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-yamaha-rx-a1080-avr.9090/

As noted in the review that is something that shouldn't happen and remained unexplained. As that is AVR and not DAC it is impossible to tell if they did some additional digital processing on any of the inputs or even if they used the same analog output stages to process both inputs.

If that was the best example you could find to support your "theory"..

 

[daftcombo]

As noted in the review that is something that shouldn't happen and remained unexplained. As that is AVR and not DAC it is impossible to tell if they did some additional digital processing on any of the inputs or even if they used the same analog output stages to process both inputs.

If that was the best example you could find to support your "theory"..

Actually, it is you who has a theory, and I just provided a counter-example.

 

[Krunok]

Actually, it is you who has a theory, and I just provided a counter-example.

So you think that not only DACs have it's own sound signature but their digital inputs as well have it? I'm not sure what advice from this topic applies to you so I'll just use "ignore".

 

[daftcombo]

So you think that not only DACs have it's own sound signature but their digital inputs as well have it? I'm not sure what advice from this topic applies to you so I'll just use "ignore".

Once again you prove that you're the rudest person on this forum.

 

[Deleted member 9286]

Blind test done. I can tell the difference.

Hi @blueninjasix

If you’re still having issues I would definitely try a cheaper optical cable. I have had your exact combo and they worked perfectly right up to 24/192 using a £5 Kabeldirekt optical cable.

I have read numerous mentions on other forums of ‘audiophile’ grade optical cables (both glass and plastic) actually being unable to transmit beyond 24/96.

I don’t know where you are in the world, but I can definitely vouch for the KabelDirekt cables here in Europe. I’ve tested up to 1.5m.

Regards

Ben

 

[blueninjasix]

Hi @blueninjasix

If you’re still having issues I would definitely try a cheaper optical cable. I have had your exact combo and they worked perfectly right up to 24/192 using a £5 Kabeldirekt optical cable.

I have read numerous mentions on other forums of ‘audiophile’ grade optical cables (both glass and plastic) actually being unable to transmit beyond 24/96.

I don’t know where you are in the world, but I can definitely vouch for the KabelDirekt cables here in Europe. I’ve tested up to 1.5m.

Regards

Ben

Thanks. I will check this cable out as I still cannot get my gear to transmit / receive signals at 192kHz or even 176.4 despite all the manufacturers confirming that their products are so capable. I'm ruling out any issues on the software side as the Windows 10 test signals will play up to and including 96kHz but not beyond.

 

[jotad]

Folks - I found this item as the best cost-effective DAC to connect to a computer's USB port and then output to SPDIF to my onkyo HTS-S570 receiver. However, I'm confused with the year versions - is there a 2019, etc and see two versions available on Amazon. I'm located in the USA and would appreciate if someone could give me a reliable link to purchase it from. Just want to make sure i'm not buying a fake and I'm buying the best and reliable version of Topping D10. Thank you all !!

 

[Veri]

I'm located in the USA and would appreciate if someone could give me a reliable link to purchase it from. Just want to make sure i'm not buying a fake and I'm buying the best and reliable version of Topping D10. Thank you all !!

Here
https://www.parts-express.com/topping-d10-desktop-usb-dac-interface--310-349

 

[jotad]

Another dumb question! It’s digital between computer usb and dac right? Then it’s analog between dac spdif port and onkyo spdif port?

thx

 

[Veri]

Another dumb question! It’s digital between computer usb and dac right? Then it’s analog between dac spdif port and onkyo spdif port?

thx

Nope. USB is digital, S/pdif is digital. Then from Onkyo outputs it will be analog in this use case, where D10 is a digital/digital converter.

 

[jotad]

I thought DAC did the job of converting digital to analog and thus made it better than a sound card

 

[Veri]

I thought DAC did the job of converting digital to analog and thus made it better than a sound card

This is a DAC and digital output in one. A combo device