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Review and Measurements of the Topping D70 DAC

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amirm

amirm

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Is this dac, for instance, better mated to a headphone amplifier than to a two channel speaker system?
No, it is good for both.

As to your larger question, price is not very correlated to performance. There are hugely expensive DACs with poor guts and poor measurements. And very cheap ones with excellent results.

All else being equal, more money will certainly get you a better case, better support, potentially more reliability and hopefully performance. All else is rarely equal so you need to seek out the review/measurements to know the real deal.
 

Naxos41

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At $500, I’m torn between this and Pro-ject pre box S2 digital (which is $100 cheaper). The D70 has XLR, while the S2 digital has full MQA rendering. As 90% of my listening is with TIDAL, MQA is a factor (although, the vast majority of their Master can be fully unfolded by softwares, which is what I do now).

Any thought on this?
 

trl

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Thanks for the review.
I'm wondering what are the 120Hz and 240Hz spikes.
Are they related to mains hum?

It's definitely mains hum, here's an inside pic that might explain it somehow:
topping-d70-balanced-dac-2x-ak4497-xmos-xu208-i2s-32bit-768khz-dsd512.jpg
Not 100%, but inserting a shield in the right side of the transformer might help a bit in lowering the AC hum. Although, like Amir said, this noise is inaudible given the very low value; this is only visible in the graphs.
 

777

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There is not AC hum. There is rectifier frequency hum, double of AC hum. So, the problem is from analog differential supply ground.
 

Jimster480

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Since a young age. I've been exposed to alot of audiophile myths lmao. My dad has a lot of insanely priced gears , somewhich are justifiable and some are just outright madness (audioquest silver usb and ethernet cables lmao). Now im 20 , i still have nearly perfect hearing (still can hear 20000hz clearly) . Im at that point where im pretty convinced what i believe and what i dont believe. To me an audio product is either excellent (like the atom) or just short of excellent (schiit products i've tried in general, audioquest dragonfly i had), and just utter trash. Anything with distortion that is not so noticable unless you really pay attention belongs to that short of excellent category. I found my ears at least can differentiate those products from excellent ones , but comparing between 2 excellent products I don't find anything significantly different to the point i would pay much more. If i were to pay more its because of build quality, looks , or features.
Which Schiit products did you try? Because both the Modi Multibit and the Fulla2 (I even sent it to amir to be tested) sounded really bad to my ears.
Music sounded flat and there were details that I missed.

Now at the time I was listening to alot of classical music.
Right now I am cycling through my genres again. Yesterday I was listening to R&B (2000s) with my wife.... then I listened to some Rap (90's - 2010) in the car followed by 60's-70s classic rock (also in the car) and then classical music as I went to sleep last night. And Tonight I will likely play jazz as I go to sleep.
Differences in poorly mastered music or "mainstream" (especially newer mainstream music) are more subtle because the dynamic range isn't as high and physial instruments are almost non existent in most modern music.
I do agree with you that the "short of excellent" category can be determined from the excellent category. But I wouldn't say that the modi multibit falls into the "short of excellent" because it was pretty poor overall.
Worse than some of the $60 DAC's available on ebay and amazon.
Telling the really poor products from the "short of excellent" ones is easy. But also if you don't have a good reference point its hard to know what is "bad".
Had I purchased a modi multibit first.... maybe I would have bought the hype and never knew what great sound actually sounds like. Instead I had the D30 first because it was "entry level" and it also wasn't established. I took a chance on Topping because it was cheap enough and it had the ports and outputs that I was looking for at the time (especially with the A30 having 3 gain settings).
When I purchased the first Fulla2 to "upgrade" from the FiiO K1; the Fulla2 sounded worse in almost every scenario (at the time I was using 1More triple driver IEM's and Panasonic RP-HD10K headphones). Today I still have the K1 and I sold the Fulla2.
K1 definitely has less power; but I have found that it gets the job done in many scenarios. Especially with more efficient headphones.
I patiently await for Amir to test it one day; as it was the first "dedicated" external DAC/Amp that I have ever purchased.
 

Snafu

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There is not AC hum. There is rectifier frequency hum, double of AC hum. So, the problem is from analog differential supply ground.

Would be interesting to see if it changes 120 vs 230V.
 

Jimster480

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The same for RME ADI-2, Benchmark DAC3, Linn Akurate, Okto DAC8, Gustard X-26, etc, etc, etc.... Do you really believe that over-simplification ? Do you really believe like BMW Serie 1 is the same with Kia Ceed just because you see on paper the same powerhorse and maximum speed ? Be serious, sometime the money tell the truth. ;)
Actually this is often the truth.
BMW 1 series can be slower than a turbo Kia.
Take a 128 for example or a 320 or a 328... they are slower than a basic mazda sedan.
Its advertised as "the ultimate driving machine" and sold like a "sports car" but really its slower than a standard commuter vehicle.
When it comes to interior appointments.... you arent getting anything in a BMW 1 series or 3 series that you can't find in a Mazda 6 Grand Touring package anyway.... or maybe an entry level Cadillac or a Malibu premier or a Honda accord or even a Kia Optima or Stinger.
But you will pay more for less features (and less power) over at BMW.
If you want a 335i/340 or a 135i (turbo i6 motors making 300+) then you will surely pay for the "luxury" (45k+). When you can get the same power (and performance) from say a Kia Stinger GT? (Based on both models I just mentioned to get a BMW 340i Starts at 50.5k & a Kia Stinger GT starts at 39k) These are actually 2 comparable cars from different mfg.

In the case of this forum; Topping is Kia or Mazda. They are providing the "Luxury" and the performance (or possibly more performance) for a much lower price.
 
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777

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Actually this is often the truth.
BMW 1 series can be slower than a turbo Kia.
Take a 128 for example or a 320 or a 328... they are slower than a basic mazda sedan.
Its advertised as "the ultimate driving machine" and sold like a "sports car" but really its slower than a standard commuter vehicle.
When it comes to interior appointments.... you arent getting anything in a BMW 1 series or 3 series that you can't find in a Mazda 6 Grand Touring package anyway.... or maybe an entry level Cadillac or a Malibu premier or a Honda accord or even a Kia Optima or Stinger.
But you will pay more for less features (and less power) over at BMW.
If you want a 335i/340 or a 135i (turbo i6 motors making 300+) then you will surely pay for the "luxury" (45k+). When you can get the same power (and performance) from say a Kia Stinger GT? (Based on both models I just mentioned to get a BMW 340i Starts at 50.5k & a Kia Stinger GT starts at 39k) These are actually 2 comparable cars from different mfg.

In the case of this forum; Topping is Kia or Mazda. They are providing the "Luxury" and the performance (or possibly more performance) for a much lower price.

Sorry, I would never drive a Kia, maybe a Mazda from time to time for amusement..... Be serious, BMW it's from another galaxy. When we talk about cars, there are only european cars and the rest of te world ;)

Snafu, would not any change with 120v. The problem it is from inside, after toroidal transformer, most probably from the ground loops. It is not a insurmontable problem. Maybe with few thick copper wires on the ground PCB we can solve easily that. The interesting part are the distortions wich colud be even smaller if the ground loops are solved. :)
 
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bunkbail

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Jitter is pretty boring as soon as it hits 'very good' range honestly. As soon as the worst offender spikes are at or under -120dB, they are already below audible jitter!! But if we want to make it a measurement contest here you go.

Fourth place, RME ADI-2 with its proprietary SteadyClock FS. Very clean, note lack of spikes entirely.
index.php


3d place, AK4118 receiver with good clocks as seen in the D70. Spikes visible due to very low noise floor.
index.php

(pretty sure this graph's comment was meant to say -120dB)

Second place, OKTO DAC8 with heavy ESS jitter suppressing using ASRC and once again good clocks. Two tiny blips.
index.php


First place goes to SMSL VMV D1. It has an Altera cyclone FPGA with sole purpose being reclocking, uses the same AccuSilicon clocks as the D70
index.php

-170dB at its lowest point, and very, very clean looking at the replacement board (shown in blue).

But like I started off my post. This is measurebating to the extreme. NONE of all four have any excessive spikes at all! You can't hear this!!
You forgot to include KTB in your post:p

1539196940519.png
 

HDavidson

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Hello everyone ! I am new to the forum.
Topping D70 just arrived. Finish is exemplar. I test it in mode USB- XLR. Top !
It takes 1 or 2 weeks to make him heat. Too early to say, but already Top!

I put the filters on it as they are at Topping.

1-2 lin. phase

3-4 min. phase

6 mix. phase




FIR-topping-d70.jpg


For the moment I prefer FIR 2 - Slow lin. phase.

I did not find how to switch to pure mode DAC, without pre amplifier.

To be continued.

Sorry for my english, I use webtraduction. :))
 
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LTig

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The music isn't at 0dB anytime. Generally speaking, only the bass frequencyes are very loud. The voice and highs frequencyes are much more smaller in amplitude, so, in that case, the -20dB level and lower levels are more important in real life.

This is not true. On a broadband system (like a DAC) the high frequency signala "ride" on top of the low frequency signals. If the music contains an LF signal with 0 dBFS amplitude any HF signal riding on it will suffer from distortion.

The only way to get rid of this is to split the audible frequeny band into seperate parts and handle each of those by their own dedicated electronics. This is done in active speakers and its one of the reasons why they can offer superb SQ for a good price (2 simple power amps are cheaper than a very big one).
 
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HDavidson

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[QUOTE = "tomli747, post: 181607, membre: 4765"] Quelle est la différence entre 1 et 3?
Ils ont la même apparence dans le graphique de réponse en fréquence. [/ QUOTE]


Both are the filters SHARP, but 1 is lin.phase and 3 is min.phase, question of pulse, pre and post echo energie.
 

trl

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There is not AC hum. There is rectifier frequency hum, double of AC hum. So, the problem is from analog differential supply ground.

Right, I see 120 Hz there. I also see that regulators seems to be positioned nearby the digital & analogue parts.
However, you might need to elaborate the idea with the analogue diff. ground, please. Thanks!
 

777

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Right, I see 120 Hz there. I also see that regulators seems to be positioned nearby the digital & analogue parts.
However, you might need to elaborate the idea with the analogue diff. ground, please. Thanks!

The most probably the ground schematic isn't a pure star-ground but tree-ground. In that case, decoupling capacitors can insert an 120hz ripple and the harmonics into the ground or the regulators doesn't has the ground chosen correctly.
 

trl

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The most probably the ground schematic isn't a pure star-ground but tree-ground. In that case, decoupling capacitors can insert an 120hz ripple and the harmonics into the ground or the regulators doesn't has the ground chosen correctly.

I see that PCB traces are very long from the reservoir caps to the SOIC regulators, maybe this will increase this hum too.
 

Jimster480

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Sorry, I would never drive a Kia, maybe a Mazda from time to time for amusement..... Be serious, BMW it's from another galaxy. When we talk about cars, there are only european cars and the rest of te world ;)

Snafu, would not any change with 120v. The problem it is from inside, after toroidal transformer, most probably from the ground loops. It is not a insurmontable problem. Maybe with few thick copper wires on the ground PCB we can solve easily that. The interesting part are the distortions wich colud be even smaller if the ground loops are solved. :)
This is where I have to disagree.
BMW is a pretty poor brand all around.
They are a relic of their former selves.
Their expensive M4 GTS gets beaten by a modern Camaro SS at 1/2-1/3 the price and basically only the M5 is competitive in the large sedan class (altough the price is quite high in the sky).
If you think BMW is from another galaxy; you haven't ever driven a real performance car.

In this case you sound like a Schiit owner who thinks that their Yggdrasil is from another Galaxy.
I'm here with a DX7 and we know how that goes ;)
 
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