Review and Measurements of the Topping D70 DAC

[gvl]

Yes, easily. Tried it and it was easy to do on the Liquid Platinum since the Chord is single ended and D70 using XLR.

More concerned about the output on the D70 being identical between the XLR and RCA - can someone else try that? I assume the 2v vs 4v should be an audible difference?

You actually had someone change the inputs for you?

 

[ra990]

You actually had someone change the inputs for you?

No, I was clicking the input button on the amp with my fingers, but I had my eyes closed.
After clicking a few times it was just clicking to me, I couldn't tell which input I was selecting. But, anyway - let's not go down this road, please! Let's keep this on topic for D70.

 

[ra990]

I guess my expectations might be wrong regarding the output levels between RCA and XLR. I always assumed the XLR outs would be louder because they're putting out 4v vs the 2v of the RCA outs. But, does that necessarily translate to noticeably louder volume or does it just provide a greater dynamic range? Just wondering if my D70 is working like it should. I expected to hear SOME difference between the RCA and XLR outs of this DAC, but they sound identical to me.

 

[CTRLM]

One thing I noticed with the following experiment to test output levels between RCA and XLR:
I have the D70's RCA and XLR outs connected to the RCA and XLR ins of my Liquid Platinum. I have the D70 set at 0db/full volume and outputting signal on both RCA and XLR outs. On the Liquid Platinum, I switch between the inputs while the track is playing and I notice NO difference at all - with a blind test, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between either. So, seems to me like they're both putting out the exact same signal - which is not what I expected. I would expect the XLR to be putting out a higher output signal. It should be 2v RCA and 4v XLR, right?

Interesting. Have you tried DAC mode to see if it's the same?
1. Power off (at rear)
2. Power on
3. When you see the display start up push and hold the select button
4. A menu will start up and in one of the options you can select DAC mode which will disable volume control
5. Save settings (last menu option)

I'm at work right now so I can't check my unit but XLR should be noticeably louder.

 

[ra990]

Interesting. Have you tried DAC mode to see if it's the same?

Great suggestion, I just tried it but unfortunately got the same result. You agree that I should be able to hear a difference, right? Please give it a try with your unit and report back if you can.

 

[CTRLM]

Yes the difference should be obvious. I wonder if it's because you have XLR & RCA outputs both enabled? What if you change the settings and try dedicated RCA & then dedicated XLR?

I used to have a Primare DAC and its RCA & XLR outputs were the same volume level but it was spec'd that way, both were 4V.

 

[ra990]

Yes the difference should be obvious. I wonder if it's because you have XLR & RCA outputs both enabled? What if you change the settings and try dedicated RCA & then dedicated XLR?

I already tried this as well, no difference either. Very strange.

Shot an email out to Topping, but not expecting much from there.

 

[ra990]

Interesting that on the drop.com page for the D70, the output is simply listed as:

• Output level: 2Vrms at 0dBFS

So maybe they changed it so both outputs are at 2V, because that's what I'm getting. The included manual and Amir's test on the first page shows 4v XLR vs 2v RCA.

 

[amirm]

I guess my expectations might be wrong regarding the output levels between RCA and XLR. I always assumed the XLR outs would be louder because they're putting out 4v vs the 2v of the RCA outs. But, does that necessarily translate to noticeably louder volume or does it just provide a greater dynamic range? Just wondering if my D70 is working like it should. I expected to hear SOME difference between the RCA and XLR outs of this DAC, but they sound identical to me.

XLR is not louder because the receiving device has lower gain using that type of input.

 

[ra990]

XLR is not louder because the receiving device has lower gain using that type of input.

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Snafu]

The serious reliability issues with Topping products need to be discussed more. I can only imagine how this forum would react if Schiit products were this unreliable...

not a fan/hateboy either way but i have bought three Schiit products (two dacs and freya) all went back because of different kind of flaws.
D50 i have had now several months has been flawless.

For example, how Schiit can let remote like this through their QC, it didn't even work properly (tubes in picture were hyper microphonic and useless):

 

[ceausuc]

Sure it will.

The problem with subjective opinion is that anybody can say, anytime, the opposite of your impressions. That the CD 6006 sounds much better than the D70 or the opposite and or the D50 better than D70 and so on...

I saw this on forum a thousand times. You trust somebody, then another come saying this or this sounds like shit, etc, etc. That is why measurements exist here: there is no place for opinion with objective performance.

Unfortunately measurements don't tell the whole story. I bought Khadas TB by looking at the measurements and I don't like that DAC at all. THAT was a waste of money!
I know how forums are and that's why you have to keep an open mind and don;'t believe everything that's written in there.,as most information is actually useless.
But let's face it: "all dacs with 1000sinad sound the same" is equally useless....

 

[chosen_too]

Unfortunately measurements don't tell the whole story. I bought Khadas TB by looking at the measurements and I don't like that DAC at all. THAT was a waste of money!
I know how forums are and that's why you have to keep an open mind and don;'t believe everything that's written in there.,as most information is actually useless.
But let's face it: "all dacs with 1000sinad sound the same" is equally useless....

Measurements are measurements and nothing more. Can we measure two guitars for example? Yes. Would you like one with better measurements? Can't say) Will measurements reveal broken or bad designed guitar? Absolutely. Same with dacs.

 

[Deleted member 4987]

What on earth have the sound of guitars got to do with the sound of dacs?

 

[chosen_too]

What on earth have the sound of guitars got to do with the sound of dacs?

Both of them made for music listening. Every hi-fi component is just a electrical music instrument with its own voice if you like. Someone likes organ while another prefer balalaika.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Every hi-fi component is just a electrical music instrument with its own voice if you like

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ... Quite a lot. Hi-fi does mean High Fidelity. Fidelity is about perfect transparency. This has nothing to do with music instruments. In a perfect world, no electronics should have its own sound. Of course, this is a bit extreme: some may prefer one thing or another, it's up to anyone. But "best" in Hi-fi vocabulary is the most transparent/neutral/uncoloured possible. Nothing else.

 

[gvl]

Unfortunately measurements don't tell the whole story. I bought Khadas TB by looking at the measurements and I don't like that DAC at all. THAT was a waste of money!

Keep listening to it and the truth will reveal itself. This is not your fuzzy comfortable NOS R2R DAC, but it is a wonderful DAC once you realize what clean neutral sound is all about.

 

[chosen_too]

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ... Quite a lot. Hi-fi does mean High Fidelity. Fidelity is about perfect transparency. This has nothing to do with music instruments. In a perfect world, no electronics should have its own sound. Of course, this is a bit extreme: some may prefer one thing or another, it's up to anyone. But "best" in Hi-fi vocabulary is the most transparent/neutral/uncoloured possible. Nothing else.

Why do you think everyone likes transparency in sound? I prefer Dynaudio over Hedd or Adam (both have better measurements) exactly because less transparent sound, it's simply more comfortable for my ears. If you're chasing most uncolored and neutral sound - maybe you are on right way, but what for? Only needed in studio maybe, home music listening is just for fun.

 

[chosen_too]

Keep listening to it and the truth will reveal itself. This is not your fuzzy comfortable NOS R2R DAC, but it is a wonderful DAC once you realize what clean neutral sound is all about.

And what if this wonderful DAC doesn't sound well for me? I should listen to it only because of great measurements? You are kidding, don't you)

Khadas IMD is awful, just listen to guitar or piano and compare it with hump free DAC like x26. You can do it blind if you like to.

 

[gvl]

And what if this wonderful DAC doesn't sound well for me? I should listen to it only because of great measurements? You are kidding, don't you)

No kidding. I didn't like it at first too, thought it sounded too forward and fatiguing compared to the sound I was used to. It all changed with time, my brain adjusted and what I thought was fatiguing now strikes me as clarity and realism. Not saying your experience will be the same, but if you listen to it exclusively for a couple of weeks your perception may well change.

Khadas IMD is awful, just listen to guitar or piano and compare it with hump free DAC like x26. You can do it blind if you like to.

I tried to compare blind the DX7s which has similar IMD performance to the Khadas and a DX3 Pro which has low IMD. I couldn't reliably detect the differences that I thought were there.