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Review and Measurements of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC

murraycamp

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ahofer

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if you have devices like Roku, Firestick and the sort, you can always try to Run Plex server and then use those devices as clients. I have tried Roon, Volumio and Plex, currently using Plex until I can justify buying Roon.

Volumio still needs more GUI improvements - I used it on my RPI 4 connected via USB to a Cambridge Audio CXA80 and works great but the GUI is not as good as I would like.

Plex, I have been using it for 3 years mainly for Movies, but as a Music server so far it fits the bill, can't play DSD but will play DSF (downsample quite a bit if not mistaken) but can play 5.1 DTS files; GUI is better than Volumio but not even close to Roon.

Synology NAS can also be a Plex server, for hosting music is more than enough, you wouldn't need a computer to act as a server.

if you have any questions about Plex and how to make it work, PM me.

I run Plex. However, my classical collection is very large, and well-tagged to purpose. Plex actually sucks for classical, even the simple process of browsing by, for instance, composer/genre/composition/artist in sequence.
 

Delacroix

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I run Plex. However, my classical collection is very large, and well-tagged to purpose. Plex actually sucks for classical, even the simple process of browsing by, for instance, composer/genre/composition/artist in sequence.
I know what you mean, I have a large music library myself, and I do agree; however, just last week Plex made changes on the Metadata for music, they partner up MusicBrainz, but you need to be a Plex Pass to have Premium music library; with my limited testing, metadata has improved, but still a bit too early to give it judgement.

Edit: Roon for me, still the best software for music, if you can afford it, just got for it and forget dealing with other solutions.
 

ahofer

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Delacroix

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Roon seems to have quite a following. I looked it up and saw that it costs $119. That's a lot for a music player when there's so many free or beer-money apps out there. Hold on, that's annual! $499 for lifetime! You can buy quite a lot of hardware for that.
I agree, but let's continue this discussion on another thread so we can stop derailing this one. :)
 

ahofer

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AudioSceptic

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Excellent idea - I am following the discussion, and would indeed like to see it have its own "home" is a separate thread - and not embedded in this horrorshow of DAC dementia. You can actually move your own posts to the recommended thread and delete the ones here - and I would then delete my posts on the issue.
Wilco.
 

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Hmmmm. In the early 1980's I worked for Analog Devices where Barry Gilbert was an eminence grise. His Gilbert cell was the basis of a whole line of linear multipliers (four quadrant) and had reasonable (not great by audio standards) non-linearity specs. As stated by Amir, balancing the transistors in the primary cell is *a lot* easier in an integrated circuit. I think the primary market was in some instrumentation markets (like IR detector work that uses phase-lock techniques to cancel out background IR). I was a test engineer for the product line. In cooperation with a process engineer we developed a least-squares 3d curve matching to eliminate offset and gain errors and produce a visualization of just the non-linearities (with static input voltages). AD was a fun place, and I chose to move on.

The Gilbert cell is a legitimate brilliant design. This application/implementation is just plain wrong.
 

ahofer

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Just got this in email:
 

GrimSurfer

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scott wurcer

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Hmmmm. In the early 1980's I worked for Analog Devices where Barry Gilbert was an eminence grise. His Gilbert cell was the basis of a whole line of linear multipliers (four quadrant) and had reasonable (not great by audio standards) non-linearity specs.

I knew Barrie from 1974 on as well as Dave Blackmer of DBX. The DBX VCA, also translinear based, was far more suited to audio (in fact that was what it was designed for). Barrie and I argued/discussed these issues many times.
 

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How do you know they’re stupid? All of them or any of them? Who individually. You don’t. It doesn’t even make any sense. And who are them? You are just on one side of a debate and you are name-calling and dehumanizing the other side. I don’t stand with that.
You’re basically espousing epistemological nihilism, ie that there is not truth, or if there is its inaccessible to us, so all arguments are equal,

That’s a view of reality that would preclude the development of medicine, airplanes, computers, etc, if it were universally held.
 
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StevenEleven

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You’re basically espousing epistemological nihilism, ie that there is not truth, or if there is its inaccessible to us, so all arguments are equal,

That’s a view of reality that would preclude the development of medicine, airplanes, computers, etc, if it were universally held.
I do not think all three of the arguments in the below video are equal, nor would I ever espouse them to be equal. Therefore, by deductive reasoning, you are incorrect in your argument of what I am “basically espousing.” Your argument is flatly wrong. There is truth, and one of those truths is that your argument is demonstrably false. It is of exceedingly low merit compared to many other arguments. It is an argument that is far below average in the pool of all arguments. It is an argument that I was able to prove flatly wrong as a matter of deductive logic in a very short writing. The mere fact that I think that it is true that your argument is false and is not as good as my argument proves your argument to be wrong as a matter of very simple logic. Now that’s a bad argument.

You made the same mistake the other guys made when they were having a ball making fun of people they didn’t know who happen to post at the PS Audio Forum. And they knew it would be inflammatory when the people at PS Audio saw it. And in condescendingly expressing their so-called humor they thought they were oh so superior. You have no idea who I am, and yet you broadside me with some totally screwed up nonsense stereotype. As you can see, speaking up does not always get you applause. But sometimes it’s far better to do so than look the other way or go along with the crowd.

 
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BillG

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Hmm. Not sure I fully get this, sorry.

Two possible setups I'd be interested in:

1) A streamer with solid DLNA performance (Doesn't disappear, fail to advance tracks) to which I can direct BubbleUPnP control point. Would prefer USB asynchronous output for format compatibility, but optical will do 90% of what I need.

2) a streamer with a connected touchscreen and player software that sees Minimserver on the LAN (as well as Tidal and Qobuz), set to autoboot/resume. This would make a nice idiot-proof way for my guests and family members to use my system without a lot of instruction from me on how to select the endpoint, etc.. Same output requirements.

As incredible as this might sound, an Android smartphone running the appropriate software would fit the bill. As a matter of fact, running BubbleUPnP on it, and setting the device as a remote controllable local renderer, should do the trick. Attach a DAC to it, if you're not satisfied with its analog output, connect it to your amp, and go. Using the phone's USB Audio output might be trickery, due to compatibility issues, but worth an attempt... :cool:

I may actually set this up for myself when I get home just as experiment.
 

Thomas savage

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I do not think all three of the arguments in the below video are equal, nor would I ever espouse them to be equal. Therefore, by deductive reasoning, you are incorrect in your argument of what I am “basically espousing.” Your argument is flatly wrong. There is truth, and one of those truths is that your argument is demonstrably false. It is of exceedingly low merit compared to many other arguments. It is an argument that is far below average in the pool of all arguments. It is an argument that I was able to prove flatly wrong as a matter of deductive logic in a very short writing. The mere fact that I think that it is true that your argument is false and is not as good as my argument proves your argument to be wrong as a matter of very simple logic. Now that’s a bad argument.

You made the same mistake the other guys made when they were having a ball making fun of people they didn’t know who who happen to post at the PS Audio Forum. And they knew it would be inflammatory when the people at PS Audio saw it. And in condescendingly expressing their so-called humor they thought they were oh so superior. You have no idea who I am, and yet you broadside me with some totally screwed up nonsense stereotype. As you can see, speaking up does not always get you applause. But sometimes it’s far better to do so than look the other way or go along with the crowd.

At some point life makes a fool of all of us. Jumping up and down calling PS audio customers stupid is not only counterproductive for us as a forum but also rather immature and unwise on all levels.

Being Human , it's a universal affliction.
 
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amirm

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I noticed Paul McGowan was kind enough to remark on my review in their forum. Here is his first post:

1570510118985.png


Addressing the second highlight first, there is nothing respectable about these measurements Paul. We are not talking 1960s tube amplifiers. In this day and age, you simply cannot defend these measurements as being good, much less in an expensive product.

As to the first comment, let's cut through this: I will come to your place at my expense. Bring one of those low distortion DACs you say sound like "dog poo." If you can determine that against this product in a blind test, I will give $10,000 to your charity of choice.

Should be easy Paul. You come out a hero and give money to a needed charity to boot.

Let's agree you won't sign up for this. There is a mountain of science and precedence that says you have no prayer of telling such products apart let alone identify one as sounding like "poo."

You have a belief in audio, reinforced by improper listening tests that has led you to this place and time. Decades of audio science says you are absolutely wrong. You have not created any magic here. After all, you can't show a single objective measurement that demonstrates it. If you can't do that, how do you know the magic is there in manufacturing? You just spit out the boxes using an Audio Precision analyzer test anyway, right?

And I have measured other gear from you. Some did OK, others like your E300 amp are actually good. That one, you didn't manage to break using your mistaken ideas about audio and design. Lucky break for your customers there. Unlucky for anyone who buys this one.

When I reviewed your DS DAC, I received feedback from a number of people saying it sounded bad to them. Here is one:

"I owned the DS for one year and it had the latest edition of Snowmass. In a showdown between multiple other dacs (including the Matric X Sabre and Element X), the DS in a word, was totally obliterated. Primarily because the DS had flaws in the bass and lacked loads of detail."

Who is right? You or him? Can't tell, right? That is why we measure. Measurements are not subject to debate. They are reliable data. You need to pay attention to them because there is no reason for an audio device to have the problems yours has. None of those problems are eutrophic in nature:

1570510658790.png


Tell me why modulating the output of the pre-amp across full spectrum of music/our hearing bandwidth is a good thing and not "poo."

Tell me why that sine wave is broadened at the bottom if it is not random noise in your gain block modulating it. Tell me why I should be happy with spray of harmonics created with every tone in music.

I suggest instead of being dismissive, take advantage of this data, go back to your design and find the sources of these problems and fix them. I am confident after you are done, you can convince yourself it sounds even better!

Your competitor, Schiit, was here before. They denied, badmouthed the measurements, etc. But then quietly realized there were problems to be fixed. Bought an Audio Precision analyzer, integrated it into their design and manufacturing cycle and new products are much better. I don't see them losing customers or their sound turning into "poo."

I will promise you I will not disappear. I am determined to provide objective data to audiophiles to make decisions based on. If you keep building poorly engineered products, I will be here to point it out. Alternatively, you can build great stuff and I will praise it as well. Choice is yours.

Thanks again for responding.
 

Thomas savage

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I noticed Paul McGowan was kind enough to remark on my review in their forum. Here is his first post:

View attachment 35389

Addressing the second highlight first, there is nothing respectable about these measurements Paul. We are not talking 1960s tube amplifiers. In this day and age, you simply cannot defend these measurements as being good, much less in an expensive product.

As to the first comment, let's cut through this: I will come to your place at my expense. Bring one of those low distortion DACs you say sound like "dog poo." If you can determine that against this product in a blind test, I will give $10,000 to your charity of choice.

Should be easy Paul. You come out a hero and give money to a needed charity to boot.

Let's agree you won't sign up for this. There is a mountain of science and precedence that says you have no prayer of telling such products apart let alone identify one as sounding like "poo."

You have a belief in audio, reinforced by improper listening tests that has led you to this place and time. Decades of audio science says you are absolutely wrong. You have not created any magic here. After all, you can't show a single objective measurement that demonstrates it. If you can't do that, how do you know the magic is there in manufacturing? You just spit out the boxes using an Audio Precision analyzer test anyway, right?

And I have measured other gear from you. Some did OK, others like your E300 amp are actually good. That one, you didn't manage to break using your mistaken ideas about audio and design. Lucky break for your customers there. Unlucky for anyone who buys this one.

When I reviewed your DS DAC, I received feedback from a number of people saying it sounded bad to them. Here is one:

"I owned the DS for one year and it had the latest edition of Snowmass. In a showdown between multiple other dacs (including the Matric X Sabre and Element X), the DS in a word, was totally obliterated. Primarily because the DS had flaws in the bass and lacked loads of detail."

Who is right? You or him? Can't tell, right? That is why we measure. Measurements are not subject to debate. They are reliable data. You need to pay attention to them because there is no reason for an audio device to have the problems yours has. None of those problems are eutrophic in nature:

View attachment 35390

Tell me why modulating the output of the pre-amp across full spectrum of music/our hearing bandwidth is a good thing and not "poo."

Tell me why that sine wave is broadened at the bottom if it is not random noise in your gain block modulating it. Tell me why I should be happy with spray of harmonics created with every tone in music.

I suggest instead of being dismissive, take advantage of this data, go back to your design and find the sources of these problems and fix them. I am confident after you are done, you can convince yourself it sounds even better!

Your competitor, Schiit, was here before. They denied, badmouthed the measurements, etc. But then quietly realized there were problems to be fixed. Bought an Audio Precision analyzer, integrated it into their design and manufacturing cycle and new products are much better. I don't see them losing customers or their sound turning into "poo."

I will promise you I will not disappear. I am determined to provide objective data to audiophiles to make decisions based on. If you keep building poorly engineered products, I will be here to point it out. Alternatively, you can build great stuff and I will praise it as well. Choice is yours.

Thanks again for responding.
 
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