Review and Measurements of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC

[ahofer]

The point of these review threads is to
A. Inform
B. Review the test results and make sure they are robust
C. Have fun
D. Learn and grow through sharing of knowledge

It requires a level of maturity, ambition even that somewhere or other we seem to be losing.

Attack the information, challenge in a meaningful and a hopefully enlightened way but please can we resist other more base temptations.

Thank you ..

Oh yeah? Your simple verbiage analysis can’t possibly capture the intellectual magic of our snarky posts! They only seem irrelevant to people who aren’t experienced enough to see the difference. They are deeply relevant, on a quantum level.

Plus, we will deliver regular upgrades of our latest amazing snark! I’m working on one now and my wife just came sprinting in from the kitchen with an amazed look on her face. “That’s not the same old snark!”, she said.

 

[GrimSurfer]

No dear, it's the new and improved snark. I just bought it from the salesman at the door.

 

[GrimSurfer]

They are deeply relevant, on a quantum level.

This is the wittiest turn of a phrase I've read today.

I've asked IEEE to consider adding... "Schroedinger's Audiophile" to the list of terms approved for use in audio discussions.

 

[Vovgan]

I have challenged doctors who believe in such voodoo how they can do that when their own livelihood relies on such things as double blind testing, medical research, etc.

Not their livelihood, only credibility within very narrow circles of people who may have little to no influence on how their career and earnings will progress. Very few doctors too put science above what they already know is/must be right.
It is usually surprising for professionals in the beginning of their career in any field who value truth, excellence, and character to find out just how low the number of people in their trade with the same priorities really is.
As with almost all personal qualities, values must also have a normal distribution, with the average being... well, average.

 

[ahofer]

This is the wittiest turn of a phrase I've read today.

I've asked IEEE to consider adding... "Schroedinger's Audiophile" to the list of terms approved for use in audio discussions.

An analyst once told me a company was “mining into a whole new orbit”.

 

[Thomas savage]

Oh yeah? Your simple verbiage analysis can’t possibly capture the intellectual magic of our snarky posts! They only seem irrelevant to people who aren’t experienced enough to see the difference. They are deeply relevant, on a quantum level.

Plus, we will deliver regular upgrades of our latest amazing snark! I’m working on one now and my wife just came sprinting in from the kitchen with an amazed look on her face. “That’s not the same old snark!”, she said.

Amazing you glean such insight from a basic look of disappointment.

Esoteric if ever there was such a thing.

 

[Human Bass]

This is the wittiest turn of a phrase I've read today.

I've asked IEEE to consider adding... "Schroedinger's Audiophile" to the list of terms approved for use in audio discussions.

I guess it would be "The sound quality can be either good or bad until I see how thick and fancy the cables are"

 

[pozz]

It requires a level of maturity, ambition even that somewhere or other we seem to be losing.

Attack the information, challenge in a meaningful and a hopefully enlightened way but please can we resist other more base temptations.

Right. There's a certain a pleasure, with Amir's work, of being proved right again over and over so consistently. There are easy points to score here. I'd rather resist all that and reserve my pleasure for, well, understanding audio better (phila-sophia, if you guys know what I mean) and then using that to mix music.

 

[raif71]

Yup, my bad. Difficult task since I THINK there are groups of people who preceive sound differently. Have you ever asked yourself " Do we all see colors the same way" of course we all can agree yeah that's green but how would the color compare. There is no right or wrong because there is no such thing like color calibration in our brain i guess its just important than you can identify dangerous things. I think Sound is somewhat similar. No facts guys.

Haha...reminds me of this...

How can Roger a tennis player says yellow...everyone knows they are green, right?

 

[oldsysop]

 

[Blumlein 88]

The point of these review threads is to
A. Inform
B. Review the test results and make sure they are robust
C. Have fun
D. Learn and grow through sharing of knowledge

It requires a level of maturity, ambition even that somewhere or other we seem to be losing.

Attack the information, challenge in a meaningful and a hopefully enlightened way but please can we resist other more base temptations.

Thank you ..

It is so hard to resist such easy targets, and our baser temptations are so tempting. I even feel guilty afterwards (sometimes).

Maybe we need a confessional sub-forum. Then Father Thomas could hear all our confessions.

Forgive me, for I have used science, logic, and the Devils' own measurements to kick a poor PS Audio DAC when it was already down.

 

[ahofer]

We all know the measurements but how does it sound? How anyone actually heard it. I think its not fair bashing electronics "only" to the fact it measured not as it should.I heard several electronics that measured excellent and sounded bad. Bascom King mentioned once that the musical vibe is something we can't measure. Or the results of a measurement don't tell you the sound characteristics of a device.

This is very old ground, but a few clarifications: most of us do listen to things before buying if we can, but in electronics a lot of reproduction problems are basically solved. Measurements make a good first pass to triage down to a large pool of *accurate* electronics. A high noise floor like the PS Audio is not accurate, and ridiculous for the price. Where we differ with you, perhaps, is the idea that something can measure very inaccurately and then sound good over a wide variety of music. That, IMO, is just the audio industry’s way of getting you on the expensive-but-slightly-broken gear treadmill and siphoning the contents of your wallet.

 

[BDWoody]

Or the results of a measurement don't tell you the sound characteristics of a device.

A DAC shouldn't have a 'sound characteristic.' It's function is to reconstruct an analog waveform with as little added or subtracted from the original as possible. These measurements do indeed tell us whether it can do that job with transparency.

If you want a certain sound, those are easily added through dsp. I don't want a synthesizer...

 

[Hifimayne]

This is very old ground, but a few clarifications: most of us do listen to things before buying if we can, but in electronics a lot of reproduction problems are basically solved. Measurements make a good first pass to triage down to a large pool of *accurate* electronics. A high noise floor like the PS Audio is not accurate, and ridiculous for the price. Where we differ with you, perhaps, is the idea that something can measure very inaccurately and then sound good over a wide variety of music. That, IMO, is just the audio industry’s way of getting you on the expensive-but-slightly-broken gear treadmill and siphoning the contents of your wallet.

Thanks for your answer

 

[Human Bass]

What pisses me off about PS Audio is that their image/marketing is about being fancy and high quality, what make those numbers unacceptable. Im totally ok with Schitt, since they are much lower cost and humorous.

And to add salt to the injury, the old guy of PSA is a big supporter of the notion that high end cables make an audible difference.
So, he wants to tell me that his dac having 25db more noise than much cheaper ones doesnt affect the sound but copper from high end cables are magical and improve the sound? Fook that mumbo jumbo.

Also I suspect there are cases where the equipment produced a bad or mediocre sound signal and the maker was "well, it is because your cables are cheap, buy expensive that will solve the problem", hoping that some cognitive bias of seeing a thick cable will be enough to fool the brain.

 

[amirm]

We all know the measurements but how does it sound?

I post my listening impressions for their DS DAC in addition to measurements: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-dac.9100/

Yet I saw post after post like yours: "he is just going by measurements." There is so much I can do to appease you guys.

How anyone actually heard it. I think its not fair bashing electronics "only" to the fact it measured not as it should.I heard several electronics that measured excellent and sounded bad.

I have performed careful listening tests to countless pieces of audio gear (every one of my headphone amplifier tests includes listening). Bad measuring gear either sounds the same or worse than a good measuring one. What you are saying is a myth propagated by people who don't know how to perform listening tests, or lack critical listening skills to hear distortions.

Bascom King mentioned once that the musical vibe is something we can't measure. Or the results of a measurement don't tell you the sound characteristics of a device.

Musical vibe is in the content. Your electronics can reduce that vibe or not. Measurements reliably show whether the vibe is retained or not. Bascom King is trying to sell you poorly performing gear by putting a spin on them that you can't test. Don't fall for it. Listen to audio science and decades of research.

 

[LTig]

1). Because balanced inputs reject common mode noise, break ground loops, and increase s/n ratio by 3 dB, if properly implemented, it is better to test a DAC by the XLR outs, if it has them and if they are properly implemented.

Balanced inputs break ground loops only if they are equipped with an audio transformer at the input, since then there's no galvanic connection. The balanced input however suppresses common mode signals, including hum induced by ground loops if there is one due to missing input transformer.

 

[LTig]

We all know the measurements but how does it sound? How anyone actually heard it. I think its not fair bashing electronics "only" to the fact it measured not as it should.I heard several electronics that measured excellent and sounded bad. Bascom King mentioned once that the musical vibe is something we can't measure. Or the results of a measurement don't tell you the sound characteristics of a device.

Uh huh.

 

[GrimSurfer]

We all know the measurements but how does it sound? How anyone actually heard it. I think its not fair bashing electronics "only" to the fact it measured not as it should.I heard several electronics that measured excellent and sounded bad. Bascom King mentioned once that the musical vibe is something we can't measure. Or the results of a measurement don't tell you the sound characteristics of a device.

This is an example of another successful experiment to resolve "Schröeinger's Audiophile". Thanks for your helpful comments, @Hifimayne.

 

[boXem]

Balanced inputs break ground loops only if they are equipped with an audio transformer at the input, since then there's no galvanic connection.

You sure of your statement?