Review and Measurements of SONOS Connect Streamer

[Parzival]

Unfortunately Sonos products sound like utter garbage -- on the level of a Homepod or worse. What the DAC achieves in decent performance is lost in the abysmal quality of their speakers.

This was a flippant and rhetorical comment; playing to the gallery.
HomePod is a very good audio product and not utter garbage as you seem to suggest, even without it’s computational audio kicking in, it has its audio chops delivering. If paired in stereo it goes from v-good to incredible due to even tighter bass response. Keep in mind the size and price, I don’t think very many options can beat this product.

 

[Docteur Poulet]

Because Sonos S2 can manage files up to 24bits/48khz, I'm curious to see if the new Sonos Port has a better DAC implementation than the previous Sonos Connect.

 

[M00ndancer]

Unfortunately Sonos products sound like utter garbage -- on the level of a Homepod or worse. What the DAC achieves in decent performance is lost in the abysmal quality of their speakers.

This was a flippant and rhetorical comment; playing to the gallery.
HomePod is a very good audio product and not utter garbage as you seem to suggest, even without it’s computational audio kicking in, it has its audio chops delivering. If paired in stereo it goes from v-good to incredible due to even tighter bass response. Keep in mind the size and price, I don’t think very many options can beat this product.

I'm curious, why did you feel the need to wake a sleeping post? It was posted Jul 10, 2019.

Because Sonos S2 can manage files up to 24bits/48khz, I'm curious to see if the new Sonos Port has a better DAC implementation than the previous Sonos Connect.

In referring to what? I can't quite follow.
There are issues with the S2 and legacy product like SONOS Connect, there is a workaround but it has it's risks: What you need to know before upgrading your Sonos system to S2 software

 

[Bernard23]

Unfortunately Sonos products sound like utter garbage -- on the level of a Homepod or worse. What the DAC achieves in decent performance is lost in the abysmal quality of their speakers.

Do you mean sound quality, or build quality?
Either way, this is not my experience either. I swapped my several £ks worth of hardware for a pair of 5 gen2 and a sub, put them on stands, use the room correction (which was impossible with conventional hardware) in a room that is utterly pants acoustically and I ended up having as good a musical experience as I've ever had without the ££££. I was surprised how good it sounded when I set it up, as at that time I'd had enough of the audiophile BS, and just want to listen to music easily and enjoyably and forget the whole idea of "critical listening" . It does both, but it would of course always be interesting to know how the 5gen2 units test. My ears tell me that the £1.5k it cost me was a better solution than the £10k it replaced, but I suspect that was largely down to my bizarrely shaped room and sub optimal listening position.
I do wish that Sonos had embraced 24 bit compatibility from the start, but hey, critical listening in a room with kids, a dog, cats etc etc....

 

[nathan]

I read something about the Port putting out worse sound, which might have to do with software or settings.

Please share more about this.

 

[nathan]

Hey folks. First time poster. Thanks for an exceptional web site!
I'm also a Sonos Connect user, connected to an Arcam D33 DAC via digital coax.

The Sonos Connect is not bit perfect, when set a fixed volume output, as a result of a normalization process they apply. The Sonos Connect WAS bit perfection prior to software version 6.

The normalization option can be removed by removing ITUNNORM tags from your audio files. Yes, this is a cumbersome and lengthy process.
There is a limiter applied with a maximum gain decrease of just under 1dB. This feature cannot be defeated in fixed volume mode unless something has recently changed.

Like others in this thread, I find the Sonos software super stable and reliable. Thus, I continue to use their solution. And I question whether my 40 odd year old ears could hear a noticeable difference regardless.

Has this been fixed? I didn’t create my files with iTunes so I’m guessing I don’t have this tag anyway. But it would be nice if it wasn’t still an issue.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Has this been fixed? I didn’t create my files with iTunes so I’m guessing I don’t have this tag anyway. But it would be nice if it wasn’t still an issue.

I don't have the answer to your question - sorry. I sold my Port and my Connect. I suspect it has not be changed. I don't believe it could be categorized as broken but rather a choice Sonos made in their design. I will say both units worked fine and sounded great to my ears.

 

[nathan]

I don't have the answer to your question - sorry. I sold my Port and my Connect. I suspect it has not be changed. I don't believe it could be categorized as broken but rather a choice Sonos made in their design. I will say both units worked fine and sounded great to my ears.

Thanks for replying. I guess I shouldn't worry. It doesn't look like any of my rips have a value for ITUNNORM. Is this something that iTunes adds to ripped files when it creates them? I think I ripped perhaps ten of the 60k tracks with iTunes, so in that case I should be okay.

For example, here is a random track and all of its meta data. I don't see anything that would seem likely to trigger this "bug" in Sonos. Do you?


Format : FLAC
Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
File size : 42.3 MiB
Duration : 9 min 37 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 615 kb/s
Album : Copland the Modernist (Michael Tilson Thomas; Garrick Ohlsson; San Francisc - flac
Part : 1
Part/Total : 1
Track name : Piano Concerto: Molto moderato: Allegro assai
Track name/Position : 2
Track name/Total : 7
Performer : Michael Tilson Thomas
Composer : Aaron Copland / Aaron Copland
Genre : Classical
Recorded date : 2000
Writing application : reference libFLAC 1.2.1 20070917
Cover : Yes
Cover type : Cover (front)
Cover MIME : image/jpeg
Rating : 5
ACCURATERIPRESULT : AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 5) [9D495F66]
ACCURATERIPDISCID : 007-0010b5e6-00644b53-4c0f8b07-2
SOURCE : CD (Lossless)
Album/Composer : Aaron Copland / Aaron Copland

Audio
Format : FLAC
Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Duration : 9 min 37 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 614 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 42.3 MiB (100%)
Writing library : libFLAC 1.2.1 (UTC 2007-11-17)

 

[pjug]

Since there is recent discussion of 24 bit support in this thread, I thought I would link this. Newer Connect devices (after mid 2017) can handle 24 bits properly. I have two of these, and unfortunately both of mine are pre mid 2017, so they truncate 24 bit files. Which is a bummer since I'm using Qobuz, but my workaround is to have Roon use DSP and then downsample everything to 16/44 before it is sent to the Connect (44KHz because the Connect mangles 48KHz). But anyway, on 24-bit support (and note that serial number begins with 4 digits for year and month):

from https://en.community.sonos.com/comp...patible-version-24bits-output-support-6862004

Connect models made after the summer of 2017 will support 24 bit playback. Any S2 device not capable of 24 bit playback (see @Ken_Griffiths’ list above) will down-sample the stream and still play at 16 bit. Optical output will be 24 bit if the Connect is 24 bit capable.

 

[nathan]

Since there is recent discussion of 24 bit support in this thread, I thought I would link this. Newer Connect devices (after mid 2017) can handle 24 bits properly. I have two of these, and unfortunately both of mine are pre mid 2017, so they truncate 24 bit files. Which is a bummer since I'm using Qobuz, but my workaround is to have Roon use DSP and then downsample everything to 16/44 before it is sent to the Connect (44KHz because the Connect mangles 48KHz). But anyway, on 24-bit support (and note that serial number begins with 4 digits for year and month):

from https://en.community.sonos.com/comp...patible-version-24bits-output-support-6862004

Connect models made after the summer of 2017 will support 24 bit playback. Any S2 device not capable of 24 bit playback (see @Ken_Griffiths’ list above) will down-sample the stream and still play at 16 bit. Optical output will be 24 bit if the Connect is 24 bit capable.

Thanks for posting this! I ended up selling my Connects because they were really ZP80 machines so not even S2 compatible.

In retrospect that may have been a bit hasty. S2 hasn't added anything useful to me. And all my gear so far is ALSO S1 compatible. So I didn't really need to make the change.

I was hoping things like library size limits might be increased with S2, since ostensibly the limitation was based on the hardware limitations of earlier models. But that didn't happen and appears unlikely to ever do so.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Thanks for replying. I guess I shouldn't worry. It doesn't look like any of my rips have a value for ITUNNORM. Is this something that iTunes adds to ripped files when it creates them? I think I ripped perhaps ten of the 60k tracks with iTunes, so in that case I should be okay.

For example, here is a random track and all of its meta data. I don't see anything that would seem likely to trigger this "bug" in Sonos. Do you?

Hi @nathan. Its not a bug. Sonos looks at it as a feature to help "normalize" or give users the option to have the same volume levels on all songs. Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of quality or compromising the original fidelity of your rip. Instead of being able to turn that feature off, one would have to remove the tag using a piece of software and save the modified file. It was one of the reasons why I left the Sonos ecosystem.

 

[nathan]

Hi @nathan. Its not a bug. Sonos looks at it as a feature to help "normalize" or give users the option to have the same volume levels on all songs. Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of quality or compromising the original fidelity of your rip. Instead of being able to turn that feature off, one would have to remove the tag using a piece of software and save the modified file. It was one of the reasons why I left the Sonos ecosystem.

I guess I got lucky since my files don't have that tag. I guess it only impacts people with iTunes rips or purchases?

 

[gadgetgeek]

Yes that is correct. iTunesNorm is Apple's Gain Control scanned and automatically added as a tag to music imported using Apple's iTunes or Apple Music.
If you happen to see some of these tags in your library (although you shouldn't if you don't use iTunes rip), use a software audio batch converter and remove the tag.

What Sonos device do you still own? The Port and the Connect handle what is considered bit perfect, differently.
Personally, I don't believe its audible either way. Both sounded great to me.

 

[nathan]

Yes that is correct. iTunesNorm is Apple's Gain Control scanned and automatically added as a tag to music imported using Apple's iTunes or Apple Music.
If you happen to see some of these tags in your library (although you shouldn't if you don't use iTunes rip), use a software audio batch converter and remove the tag.

What Sonos device do you still own? The Port and the Connect handle what is considered bit perfect, differently.
Personally, I don't believe its audible either way. Both sounded great to me.

I'm using a 2018-built Connect. Seems like it should be bit perfect up to 24/48? 99% of my library is 16/44.1 anyway so as long as that is unmolested, things should be okay.

Now that I think about it, I might have ripped a few CDs with iTunes at some point....but probably not lossless. It was probably back in the day when I would rip to MP3 for the car, etc. Guess I will search my library for ALAC files, just in case.

 

[gadgetgeek]

I'm using a 2018-built Connect. Seems like it should be bit perfect up to 24/48? 99% of my library is 16/44.1 anyway so as long as that is unmolested, things should be okay.

Now that I think about it, I might have ripped a few CDs with iTunes at some point....but probably not lossless. It was probably back in the day when I would rip to MP3 for the car, etc. Guess I will search my library for ALAC files, just in case.

Yes, you are fine using that Connect for 16/44.1 Bit Perfect playback. The Port is NOT bit perfect. Enjoy the music!

 

[nathan]

Yes, you are fine using that Connect for 16/44.1 Bit Perfect playback. The Port is NOT bit perfect. Enjoy the music!

Well that's ironic! I almost convinced myself to upgrade to the Port, but now am doubly glad I did not (at least for now, until the Connect is no longer supported!)

 

[Bernard23]

I picked up an S1 Connect for a measly £20 so that i could add the streaming functionality to my otherwise analogue vintage setup. Am impressed with how good it sounds, it's clearly not the limiting factor in my setup, though need to compare the Sonos DAC to the one in my amp, but I suspect the sonic differences are so small it's not worth the hassle of pulling the whole thing apart and moving interconnects around

 

[nathan]

About the only thing one might reasonably upgrade in the Connect is the DAC. It's not bad, but these days many budget DACs are better. Whether one will hear the difference may depend on room, other gear, one's ears, and some expectation bias.....

 

[DonH56]

About the only thing one might reasonably upgrade in the Connect is the DAC. It's not bad, but these days many budget DACs are better. Whether one will hear the difference may depend on room, other gear, one's ears, and some expectation bias.....

I cannot find the measurements I made of my Connect. At the time, 10+ years ago, there was a lot of chatter about reduced bass and high jitter. I think I was able to confirm bass rolled off starting around 30 Hz, but lacked the equipment to assess anything else with any sort of accuracy. Could have set up a loopback test, but since I use the digital output, I didn't (don't) really care. Amir did not see any such roll-off, which makes me wonder if a FW update fixed it, or if they tweaked the HW along the way.

I do remember seeing it truncated everything to 16 bits but decided I could live with that. Surprised the Port is not bit-perfect; is that on the analog outputs only, or digital too?

Someday I'll figure out how to stream from my (currently dead) NAS to my AVP and ditch the Connect.

 

[Bernard23]

About the only thing one might reasonably upgrade in the Connect is the DAC. It's not bad, but these days many budget DACs are better. Whether one will hear the difference may depend on room, other gear, one's ears, and some expectation bias.....

That was my assumption too, so I connected the toslink out into my amp, and let the built in dac do the conversion.