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Review and Measurements of SONOS Connect Streamer

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amirm

amirm

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Is that a general rule for all digital music and DACs or were you just talking specifically to limitations with the Sonos Connect?
It is a mathematical limitation that applies to any device. I have frequently run into it with 16 bit limit of other DACs. Schiit Modi 3 and Asus come to mind. I have also seen it with airplay limiting to 16 bits.

The formula is = 6.02 * number or bits + 1.76. So for 16 bit audio we get 98 dB.
 

DonH56

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16-bit resolution limits out at ~98 dB due to quantization noise if everything else is perfect. In other words, a perfect 16-bit DAC will exhibit 98 dB SINAD.

SINAD = 6.021*N + 1.76 dB for an ideal N-bit DAC (or ADC).

There are some articles in the technical section explaining how DACs work and where that comes from.

Edit -- Wascally Amir beat me to it...
 
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reading the review again, why is this being tested with 24bit files, it's a 16bit player. Wouldn't it make more sense to measure it using the type of files it would normally see in use?
The app happily plays 24 bit audio so it is not out of spec for it.

It is fine for the device to be 16 bit only. It just needs to do the proper conversion from 24 bit or complain. It did neither.
 

pjug

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16-bit resolution limits out at ~98 dB due to quantization noise if everything else is perfect. In other words, a perfect 16-bit DAC will exhibit 98 dB SINAD.

SINAD = 6.021*N + 1.76 dB for an ideal N-bit DAC (or ADC).

There are some articles in the technical section explaining how DACs work and where that comes from.

Edit -- Wascally Amir beat me to it...

I am sure you and Amir are correct on this, but do you have a link for how this is derived? I thought it was just dB conversion of 2^16, which is 96dB.
 

DonH56

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantization_(signal_processing)

Hand-waving: You pick up a little because the error does not instantaneously "flip" -- as the signal varies, the error from "perfection" varies, so it is not hard-limited at exactly 2^16 but a little better than that.

The equation is technically only valid for a sine wave, but since all other waveforms can be broken into a series of sinusoids, it works pretty well most of the time.

HTH - Don
 

DonH56

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There are a myriad of places; I personally use the IEEE Standard as a reference but it's in Oppenheim and Schafer (a classic signal-processing text) and zillions of other places. I have a lot of issues with Wikipedia but most people can see it and it is in multiple languages so I usually go there first. And pray they got it right. :)
 

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The device has some decent features for 35 bucks and allows you to stream from your DLNA music library, but it's not really an alternative to Chromecast or CCA:

- I don't think the device can be used to directly stream from music services such as Qobuz, Tidal, Spotify, Amazon Music, etc.
- Does it support bit-perfect streaming like the CCA?
- Does it support hi-res (i.e. 96/24) files without sample/bit rate conversion?

If you want to use a music streaming service with the device, I guess you can stream from your phone to the device via Bluetooth or Airplay, but there will likely be a degradation in the signal. The beauty of Chromecast is that the app you use to stream is merely a controller; once the stream is established, the streaming is (generally) performed directly from the source to the Chromecast (or CCA) device. There are exceptions with apps that cache the streams for gapless playback, but in general, Chromecast and CCA streams bypasses the "middleman", which can mean less degradation in the signal, or at the very least less dependency on the app being active in order to hear music.
AirPlay also bypasses the “middleman”, it sends the URL to the receiving device, whereas your iPhone/iPad/etc. just controls the feed.
 
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AirPlay also bypasses the “middleman”, it sends the URL to the receiving device, whereas your iPhone/iPad/etc. just controls the feed.

I thought the device you linked to only supports Airplay 1. Unless I am mistaken, Airplay 1 only supports device-to-device streaming,

FYI, I don't participate in the Apple ecosystem, and haven't kept up with the updates to Airplay. I just know that Airplay originally only supported device-to-device streaming.
 

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I thought the device you linked to only supports Airplay 1. Unless I am mistaken, Airplay 1 only supports device-to-device streaming,

FYI, I don't participate in the Apple ecosystem, and haven't kept up with the updates to Airplay. I just know that Airplay originally only supported device-to-device streaming.
I’m pretty sure you’re incorrect, AirPlay 2 really only added multi-room capability, original AirPlay is also source-to-device.
 
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I’m pretty sure you’re incorrect, AirPlay 2 really only added multi-room capability, original AirPlay is also source-to-device.

I know we are getting a little off-topic here, as the topic is really about the SONOS Connect Streamer, but let me just state that if am mistaken about Airplay 1 not supporting source-to-device streaming, then I stand corrected. In that case, assuming the apps from Tidal/Spotify/Qobuz/etc. support Airplay, this Dayton Audio device might work as a cheap replacement for the CCA for iOS/Apple users, though of course it can't do multi-room.
 
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So I happen to have a CCA, Airplay 1 (Airport Express) and Airplay 2 (Libratone Zipp) devices handy to test device-2-device vs. Source-2-Device. I played a song on the Tidal app on my iPhone, streamed it to each device and then turned my phone off to see if the stream would still continue on the playback device.
Only the CCA worked. It played the entire song after I turned off my phone and actually went into the next song on the playlist. Both of the Airplay devices dropped the signal the second I turned off the phone.

Please let me know if I'm not testing this out correctly.
 

MZKM

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So I happen to have a CCA, Airplay 1 (Airport Express) and Airplay 2 (Libratone Zipp) devices handy to test device-2-device vs. Source-2-Device. I played a song on the Tidal app on my iPhone, streamed it to each device and then turned my phone off to see if the stream would still continue on the playback device.
Only the CCA worked. It played the entire song after I turned off my phone and actually went into the next song on the playlist. Both of the Airplay devices dropped the signal the second I turned off the phone.

Please let me know if I'm not testing this out correctly.
You mean you put your phone to sleep or you actually turned the phone off? I never have an issue when the device goes to sleep, but I have never tried turning the phone off.
 

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Funny story: entire night I had this nightmare where I was working for some company and we were acquired by SONOS!!! No one had told us why they had done that and then we were invited to a meeting to be told, only to have them not show up forever.
Has this replaced your reoccurring' weeding' nightmare?

The poor gardener that ran away from you place probably still wakes up in cold sweats thinking about them ..
 

KenG

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You mean you put your phone to sleep or you actually turned the phone off? I never have an issue when the device goes to sleep, but I have never tried turning the phone off.
I physically turned the phone off (not sleep) and the CCA kept playing and went into the next song while the phone was still off.

I've also never had an airplay issue while in sleep mode, even for video.
 

MZKM

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I physically turned the phone off (not sleep) and the CCA kept playing and went into the next song while the phone was still off.
Not sure the popularity of such an occurrence, but I wouldn’t not believe that it doesn’t work. Even though it’s source-to-device, the phone is still used as a controller, maybe the phone is continually sending the stream and that’s how it integrates commands?

For CCA, when the phone dies and turns back on, is it still connected?
 
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KenG

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Not sure the use case for that, but I wouldn’t not believe that. Even though it’s source-to-device, the phone is still used as a controller.

For CCA, when the phone dies and turns back on, is it still connected?

When I turned the phone back on and opened Tidal it was back to the home screen on the app. It showed something I was streaming from the Tidal session prior to CCA test session on the bottom of the screen along with the previous device (before the test). Sure enough, when I select the ChromeCast device - the test song by Donovan appeared and was continuing with the CCA as if the test session never stopped.
I really didn't expect that. Pretty wild.
 

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I just recently purchased a couple Sonos One(gen2) speakers.
I'm wasn't looking for the pinnacle of wireless streaming.

These are for my deck. Just want to pay for something solid & decent sounding.
Setup is brainless & it connected to Qobuz easily.
16/44.1 is more than I need in an outdoor setting but it still is nice & sounds great.

For the outside, the sub would be a perfect addition
I just wish it wasn't so over priced.
Solid design just $200 above what it should be, imo.
 

KenG

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As fate would have it the day I talk up the great network connection technology of Sonos, I experience an issue with it. The two Sonos Play 1s that I have in stereo in my kitchen stopped working in stereo last night and I had to unlink them and reset the link.
First connection issue ever in over a year. Hopefully it isn't a trend.
 

KenG

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Funny story: entire night I had this nightmare where I was working for some company and we were acquired by SONOS!!! No one had told us why they had done that and then we were invited to a meeting to be told, only to have them not show up forever.
...Suddenly a hidden door opens up and the Schiit guys and Rob Watts appear.

"Amir, we urgently need your help to create the best measuring DAC/Amp ever........A MULTIBIT ONE with lots of TUBES!!!!!"
 
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